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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd
    Arthas is in the Maw because Sylvanas saw him there in the Edge of Night.
    Unless they retcon it.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    he literally say i'll pay any price to save my ppl when he picks the sword, he lost faith in light that it can help ppl in his impossible desperate war
    Arthas was corrupted, if anything changed in his path, he may been the greatest champion of Azeroth, but since everything f8cked him even Uther and Jaina and honestly everyone, he became the greatest villain ever
    And btw nothing says if Sylvannas vision is true or not

    But one of things that will make me 100% play shadowlands is Arthas fate, if they don't treat him like Orgrim in WoD and give him the actual proper respect he deserves, i'll buy shadowlands with zero regrets

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    i REALLY hope not
    If Arthas show up again, he should get the leading role, be it a hero or villain, not be used to show how 'uber amazing' ipwngnomes the random furry warrior is

    no, everyone believe it was the right decision, check the entire Culling of Stratholme dungeon we got in wrath
    heck i even made a thread myself (or was it someone else?) about if Culling of Stratholme was right and it was overwhelming agreed that Arthas did the right thing
    Both Uther and Jaina were a88holes for refuse to help him, they weren't there to see how the scourge rise, of course they opposed him because how low they think of him and that 'there must be a way'
    Sadly it only delayed the inevitable

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    Since u forgot wc3, let me remind u with its events
    the scourge is literally unstoppable, unless u cut its head there is no end, Arthas had wrong info that Mal'ganis was its head
    Uther in his arrogance tried to stop the attack on the scourge, everyone except Arthas grossly underestimated the threat of the scourge (which is canon-wise considered the biggest threat azeroth faced), and was trying to force Arthas back from Northrend giving the scourge the time it needed to win
    Arthas was betrayed by everyone around him, he was shoved in corruption pass, if even 1 of those 'heroes' did help him, his fate may been different, but it isn't
    And they got what they deserve, he became the greatest villain ever until his end
    We players specially should relate to him the most, he amount of 'Greater Good' sh8t we did dwarf even Arthas work, just check the most recent remove the barrier between Azeroth and Argus to invade it event, also it was Illidan who did that, and unlike Arthas, Illidan had support (last time he didn't have support, he ended as boss of a raid)
    None of the events justifies hiring mercenary to murder his men, Arthas had his men killed just because his father ordered them to retreat, and no it is not treason when someone in higher authority, in this case his father, orders it. So there is no greater good or anything that justify having the soldiers killed just because they were being recalled home.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Nosgoth View Post
    How did Arthas make a deal with the devil? I don't think you've really paid attention to his story.
    Picking up Frostmourne, fully knowing that it was a cursed soulsucking blade, just to get petty vengeance on a demon.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Picking up Frostmourne, fully knowing that it was a cursed soulsucking blade, just to get petty vengeance on a demon.
    Yes, but not for petty revenge. He said he would bear any curse to save his people. That's a selfless act, and not an act of evil. That it would turn him into a Death Knight who would ultimately be the doom of his own people, that was irony. Because it was exactly the opposite of what Arthas wanted.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Whattabaout Broxigar ?
    He lives in our hearts still.


    F

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    Playing the Devil's Advocate here.

    Sylvanas went to the Maw (we assume), and also saw Arthas there. Sylvie, up until that point, never attempted anything worse than what Kael'thas or Arthas did iirc.

    But Kael'thas chills at Revendreth despite his attempted omnicide, something that Arthas is also guilty of, yet Sylvie, innocent as fuck at the time in comparison to big blonde powerhouses' crimes, went to Maw. So did Arthas, if he wasn't a mirage conjured by the Arbiter/Jailer/Sylvanas' mind.

    The afterlife doesn't sound fair to me. If Kael'thas isn't at the Maw, there is a chance Arthas isn't either imo.
    Last edited by WanderingWarrior; 2019-11-20 at 09:22 PM.
    "You will become my force of retribution. Where you tread, doom will follow. Go now, and claim your destiny, Death Knight."

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Nosgoth View Post
    That's not a deal with the devil. That's a cursed blade he took up to save his people.
    Potato potatoe.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Piamonte View Post
    Culling of stratholme says hi, he was damned way before he even took the sword, also he was kind of an asshole and you have to remember that he was warned against picking up frostmourne yet he did it anyway only because he wanted power.
    Culling of Stratholme can be justified. He picked up Frostmourne and he didn't care about the curse because he wanted to save his people. So no it wasn't "just" for power he wanted to stop the Scourge at all cost to save everyone.

    Arthas was brash, arrogant and sometimes stupid, but he wasn't the only one. Uther was an idiot and so was Jaina and many others. Arthas was the only one who took the fight against the Scourge and see it as the treath it truly was/is. The culling of Stratholme makes this very interesting because it's a morally grey area. There are people who agree with Arthas wanting to purge the city and people against it. Both sides have points why they can be right in this situation.

    However IF the purging didn't happen Mal'ganis would've swarmed and destroyed Lordaeron. But thanks to Arthas it was prevented at this moment, however Arthas lost it at this point. He had to kill innocent people "for the greater good" and in the end the one who caused all this slipped through his fingers and fled up far North.

    And that was his turning point. He was enraged, in pain and ashamed so he had to go North to "justify" his actions and stop the Scourge whatever it takes. I think in his eyes no one believed the Scourge as the treath it truly was. But he saw it with his own eyes at the culling what could happen. Even tho his father ordered him back he could not obey not after all what happened, out of shame and anger he had to make it right.

    Now him killing his own men by mercenaries is something a bit out of nowhere and that can't be justified. He was not corrupted at this point but nothing could stop him from returning home without Mal'ganis dead and the Scourge stopped.

    While arriving in Northrend he was trapped by a huge army of the Scourge and Mal'ganis. His only option was finding this powerful blade that was mentioned during his trip. After finding Frostmourne and now knowing it was cursed he saw no other option to accept it as he would bear any curse to save his kingdom.

    Ironically that curse was him becoming corrupted and destroying his kingdom.

  8. #128
    Is the "he used mercenaries to kill his own men"-part something out of the books or something? Because that never happened in WC3.

    He used mercenaries to burn down the ships and fight the undead that occupied their way to the ships.
    Even Muradin did help him with that.

    In the end, he betrayed his mercenaries... which is evil, but then again - also kinda... normal?
    And by "normal" I mean:

    They are not his loyal subjects, I think I've done worse with my player-character in WoW for the greater good and I'm considered a hero there.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2019-11-21 at 10:47 AM.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    The only one in game who believes it was justified was Arthas himself. The game, and lore, is quite specific in letting you know that this is a pivotal turning point in his character arc which sets him on a path of irredeemable vengeance
    lol what? He was 100% right in culling of stratholme. The fact that his mentor and gf turned their backs on him there was one of the biggest turning points, not the fact that he killed some zombies. Have you even played either version of the culling? He lost his moral compass and support, ended up going down a singular path of vengeance after being abandoned.

    Arthas's journey is a lot more tragic than derps make it out to be in forums.

    He held a small village together against a large scourge attack and a plague caravan > then he gets scolded by uther who had an army of knights riding on his back for not holding together better

    He sees the effects of the plague and what it can do and knows there is no coming back from it > gets abandoned by jaina and uther when he needed them the most

    Goes on a journey north to chase down malganis and makes progress against the scourge head on with his small force > asked to abandon his whole campaign and go back to lordaeron because uther convinced the king.. instead of you know, sending him help?

    Accepts to bear any curse to "save his people" > gets tricked into getting his soul consumed by frostmourne. If you play the game, you will notice that he doesn't say I will pick up the sword because I want the power or something.. he sais "I will gladly bear any curse to save my people"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Piamonte View Post
    Culling of stratholme says hi, he was damned way before he even took the sword, also he was kind of an asshole and you have to remember that he was warned against picking up frostmourne yet he did it anyway only because he wanted power.
    <read above

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by faithbane View Post
    lol what? He was 100% right in culling of stratholme. The fact that his mentor and gf turned their backs on him there was one of the biggest turning points, not the fact that he killed some zombies. Have you even played either version of the culling? He lost his moral compass and support, ended up going down a singular path of vengeance after being abandoned.

    Arthas's journey is a lot more tragic than derps make it out to be in forums.

    He held a small village together against a large scourge attack and a plague caravan > then he gets scolded by uther who had an army of knights riding on his back for not holding together better

    He sees the effects of the plague and what it can do and knows there is no coming back from it > gets abandoned by jaina and uther when he needed them the most

    Goes on a journey north to chase down malganis and makes progress against the scourge head on with his small force > asked to abandon his whole campaign and go back to lordaeron because uther convinced the king.. instead of you know, sending him help?

    Accepts to bear any curse to "save his people" > gets tricked into getting his soul consumed by frostmourne. If you play the game, you will notice that he doesn't say I will pick up the sword because I want the power or something.. he sais "I will gladly bear any curse to save my people"

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    <read above
    Yea but that's the before LK part.

    After that he annihilated the nerubians, the vrykul, the drakkari and set out to turn the whole planet into scourge.
    He wasn't even corrupted as the LK, he destroyed nerzhul and acted on his own.

    So even tho he might not have been bad as Arthas; Arthas the Lich King did some fucked up shit. You can play thru it on Northrend too.

  11. #131
    Pandaren Monk Forgottenone's Avatar
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    With their desire to bring back characters I would be very surprised if they didn't bring back Arthas in some form. He could basically be like a trump card they use in Shadowlands lore to help assist Bolvar and the heroes or something like that.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by faithbane View Post
    lol what? He was 100% right in culling of stratholme. The fact that his mentor and gf turned their backs on him there was one of the biggest turning points, not the fact that he killed some zombies.
    No, he wasn't. He behaved like a kid and did little to convince them of the necessity of the action. How would you feel if somebody came up to you and demanded your help in wiping out a large town because "bad things will happen if you don't"?

    Goes on a journey north to chase down malganis and makes progress against the scourge head on with his small force > asked to abandon his whole campaign and go back to lordaeron because uther convinced the king.. instead of you know, sending him help?
    Upon which he throws a tantrum and turns against his own people, then kills the mercenaries he paid to help him. Surely a sign of a stable and healthy psyche.
    Sounds to me like the recall order was entirely justified because this guy is mental.

  13. #133
    I think the same, yeah.

    Like... why would they give us new Arthas model in BFA? Just to be shown for 5-6 seconds in Jaina's questline?

  14. #134
    According to the short story, where Sylvanas falls from ICC, the place ahe ends up is most likely the maw, where she meets Arthas. Also according to the same short, the first time she died in Quelthalas she most likely went to Bastion.

  15. #135
    When his brand new model showed up in that Jaina cinematic, it was all but certain we’d see him again.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by faithbane View Post
    lol what? He was 100% right in culling of stratholme. The fact that his mentor and gf turned their backs on him there was one of the biggest turning points, not the fact that he killed some zombies. Have you even played either version of the culling? He lost his moral compass and support, ended up going down a singular path of vengeance after being abandoned.

    Arthas's journey is a lot more tragic than derps make it out to be in forums.

    He held a small village together against a large scourge attack and a plague caravan > then he gets scolded by uther who had an army of knights riding on his back for not holding together better

    He sees the effects of the plague and what it can do and knows there is no coming back from it > gets abandoned by jaina and uther when he needed them the most

    Goes on a journey north to chase down malganis and makes progress against the scourge head on with his small force > asked to abandon his whole campaign and go back to lordaeron because uther convinced the king.. instead of you know, sending him help?

    Accepts to bear any curse to "save his people" > gets tricked into getting his soul consumed by frostmourne. If you play the game, you will notice that he doesn't say I will pick up the sword because I want the power or something.. he sais "I will gladly bear any curse to save my people"

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    <read above
    You're missing the point. It doesn't matter what we see as the right to do, or whether he was justified in his actions. To those around him, he was wrong to purge an entire city. He sought out Frostmourne knowing it was cursed, his quest wasn't so much about saving his people as it was for vengeance.

  17. #137
    The whole Culling is sort of the old D&D parable: Is it evil to kill a baby orc (in a D&D setting where creatures are born good/evil) if you know it will grow up to be evil. I mean, he technically was not wrong, despite what the game tries to show. There wasn't any other way, and the game even shows that there wasn't anything that could be done. I mean okay, he did it in the most extreme way possible, but what else would you do? Wait for a city with several thousand townsfolk (Stratholme was a pretty big city, maybe second largest compared to Capital City, so it had to have a lot of people living there) to turn into mindless undead under the command of a Dreadlord and risk setting them off across Lordaeron? Come on, I'm sure people have seen The Walking Dead to know what happens when you get a horde of zombies.

    Now Frostmourne was another story, and was essentially the WoW version of Anakin Skywalker's fall in Revenge of the Sith (sell your soul to save those you care about). But Frostmourne also consumed Arthas' soul out in the frozen wastes, so when he really started doing all the evil things he was little more than a servant of the Scourge, and didn't have his own mind. The Culling might have set him on the path of "the ends justify the means" which ultimately led to Frostmourne, but the Culling itself wasn't wrong given the circumstances. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.

  18. #138
    Truth is pretty much EVERYONE in game lorewise would end up in the Maw, specially horde NPCs. Saurfang for instance, he stated several times how he murdered inocents left and right, children included (from his dialogue with Garrosh in Northend). When we stop and watch all the things the NPCs had done pretty much all did evil things.
    English is not my main language so grammar errors might happen.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Nefastus View Post
    Truth is pretty much EVERYONE in game lorewise would end up in the Maw, specially horde NPCs. Saurfang for instance, he stated several times how he murdered inocents left and right, children included (from his dialogue with Garrosh in Northend). When we stop and watch all the things the NPCs had done pretty much all did evil things.
    You don't get thrown in the Maw for having done bad things in life. You get thrown in there for being considered irredeemable and a threat to the Shadowlands.

    Saurfang killed innocents and children, but he wasn't proud of it.

  20. #140
    Pandaren Monk Tyrannica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    He knew what he was getting himself into. He was driven my vengeance and nothing more. Whether you think he did nothing wrong or not doesn't matter, his actions are are condoned by everyone around him. Uther, Jaina, Muradin etc all abandon him, did you miss this? He kills his own men with hired mercenaries to prevent a retreat from Northrend, all in the quest for vengeance.
    Uther, Jaina, Muradin etc did not see the greater picture, Arthas did.

    You probaly did see what happened, after the scourge took over they summoned Archimonde and bring the burning legion. All that was needed for this was Kel'thuzad and the book of Medivh.

    Uther and Jaina just walked away in face of this threat - but Kudos to Muradin wo made it to northrend.

    I hate when people try to justfy Uther's and Jaina's mistakes in ignoring the scourge threat and blame it all on Arthas, who had the right intensions, before taking up that sword.

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