Ok "Shadowlands" you are amazing

[Dystemper]

And monks? where are they? dh has a high population but again the point still stands, people that tried dh on legion vs people that are dh today? people that tried monk on mop vs people that are monks today? most people complain about "unfinished" or "rushed" expansion just cause no new class when most likely they wont even play it, its retarded.

Monks were never that popular, but what about DK's? The point is new classes help sell the game because people get bored playing the same thing. Just because Monks are not as heavily represented is not a inidcation that people dont play new classes

[Denymeplz]

how exactly does one of the three new classes (and not even the most recent one) being poorly received lead to “they shouldn’t introduce any new classes?”

It leads to having no new class doesnt make or break an expansion, which is what people complain about, and thats the retarded part "no new class? hurr durr this expansion sucks HUEHUEHUE".

[Karmacoma]

Whose motorcycle is this?
It's a chopper baby.
Whose chopper is this?
It's Zed's.
Who's Zed?
Zed's dead baby,
Zed's dead.

[Ielenia]

You did everything but answer my question lol. And a new class gives a different class to play with? Well ya don't say! Haha

You asked why people would want a new class, I gave you three reasons, off the top of my head.

Srsly tho the 'meta shakeup' can be achieved just as well, if not better, by not adding a class and readjusting existing class and specs.

I never said it's the only way, but it is the most efficient way of changing the meta. Because a new class brings new mechanics and one more class one may have to keep in mind when going into PvP.

Adjusting existing classes and specs do not "shake up the meta" anywhere near like a new class can, unless the existing classes/specs are heavily modified, like it happened to the hunter class' Survival spec, and it has to happen to more than just one class and one spec.

The only way a new class shakes up the meta is by flooding it with the new class in the first few months before the 'shinyness' wears off then we're right back where we started with crappy classes and boring platstyles. I'd rather they shake up the meta by actually shaking it and redoing existing classes.

Nah. Once a class is introduced, you can't go back to the "way we started with crappy classes and boring playstyles", because we still have the new class. You're assuming the new class wouldn't play any different and bring anything new to the table.

- - - Updated - - -

- because adding a new class and updating existing classes aren’t mutually exclusive (in fact they have already done this multiple times, see literally every expansion where they’ve added new classes). one doesn’t take away from the other.

I mean... it's like he doesn't know the Legion expansion exists, or something...

[Konteil]

i left retail at BFA. i came back for classic. been having fun with it for the forst time in a while. shadowlands may actually have me log my retail toons in for teh forst time since bfa prepatch

[Lierial]

not hyped at all just the opposite
i just unsubed for me lvl - squish = absolute no go
gl everyone else this game is ended for me

[Ielenia]

One way to shake up the meta? Sure.
The most efficient? It's closer to the most inefficient. If your watch is broken you don't fix it by adding more cogs to it's guts you fix the already existing cogs first.

Yeah, faulty analogy, sorry.

Funny how you cut off the rest of my post that does exactly that: show how your analogy is faulty.

A more fitting analogy is a restaurant's menu: you make it more interesting to attract more clients advertising new choices added to your menu, not by saying some of the existing choices have more seasoning while others now has less seasoning.

[KevyB]

Sorry but no, this xpac is quite pathetic.

[Army Dreamer]

Anyone else is hyped for Shadowlands?

Just finished watching wow panel and I can't wait to hear about it more. Why so much negativity?

Are you a Blizzard employee responsible for the hype?

[This One Time At Bandcamp]

Really love the leveling changes!

Really love the specific paths to gear changes (No more hoping for perfect TF drops)

Really love the changes for catch-up mechanincs for alts.

Really love the idea of new legendaries - but done in a better way.

Really love the lack of AP grind.

Hoping for a change to factions and a new class - then this sounds like a perfect expansion.

[ImpalerEU]

Actually when I run out of things to do I go play other games or level an alt.

In fact, this expansion will allow me to play alts again. Marvellous.

- - - Updated - - -



But they have said it will not be a grind in the sense of how AP currently has been. I suspect it will not be the onerous experience we currently have.

I will never understand how or why Blizzard caters towards cabdrivers like this.

[Ielenia]

Im too far in this rabbit hole already I honestly don't care to argue about this at all I was only making a snarky comment to those absurdly negative posters who love to grandstand over every little detail on how Blizz is horrible all the time.

Funny how you complain about "absurdly negative posters who love to grandstand on every detail on how Blizzard is horrible all the time"... and yet your very next paragraph is a marvel of a lack of self-awareness, as you become exactly the kind of poster you complain about: the "absurdly negative poster who loves to grandstand over every little detail on how Blizz is horrible all the time."

It's fascinating, really.

But since I can't resist turning an analogy around on somebody with your own example of the menu it would be more like if a restaurant had absolutely shitty food with hairs and rat shit in the food, but instead of fixing and cleaning up the food in their menu they think if they just add more options it will fix itself.

But I say again, I really don't give a rats ass (see what I did there?) to continue to argue to agree to disagree?

Just because you decided to fill your plate with stuff from the trash can on the back of the restaurant doesn't mean that is what the restaurant are serving you.

You are making a hyperbolic comparison that does not reflect the actual situation of the game. Classes are not "broken". The food dishes are not "full of hair and rat shit". This is just you not liking how Blizzard's restaurant seasoned their dishes and now you're going to the social media to lie about the restaurant's menu, saying how filthy it is.

[TwoMana]

Why so much negativity?

This particular forum is a pit of negativity. It doesn't matter if Blizzard announces cure for cancer. People here would be shitting on it anyway.

[Ielenia]

@Lelenia so because I call out posters that seemingly live to just shit on blizzard I'm not allowed to make even a single criticism for fear of you taking irony out of it? Forgive me but what an amazingly basic and simple form of thinking.

It's not about you making criticisms. It's about you behaving the exact same way those posters you love to complain about how they act do.

It's like a person complaining that people take two parking spaces when they park their cars, but then you go and do the exact same thing: take two parking spaces when you park your car.

Also you are the first person I've seen in YEARS defend the state of class design and gameplay in wow.

I'm not. I am fully aware that BfA's class design is lacking. I'm simply pointing out how your claims about the current class design are wrong in the way you make hyperbolic comparisons.

EDIT: Also, learn to [MENTION].

[Weatherwax]

I am. What Ion spoke about during the What's Next panel is definitely in line with the changes I think this games needs.
P.S Holinka the un-pruner was a nice touch.

Dude, they didn't change the talent system. Classes will be exactly the same, the only difference is that instead of 3 Azerite traits you can choose you get only 2 when you choose a Covenant, and the Covenant system is a much more unforgiving one than even Azerite gear.

If you play a hybrid class, for example, you're completely screwed, because you'll simply never get to play more than one role, since the Covenant traits are only suited to one role per class.

For example, let's take a Paladin and Bastion, which is the Covenant they gave us more info about.

Bastion's Divine Toll (Instantly cast Holy Shock, Avenger's Shield or Judgment on all valid targets within 30 yds (based on your current specialization)
6,000 Mana, 30 yd, Instant, 1 min cooldown) is great for Holy in any and all situations because it's basically a huge AoE heal.

For Ret and Prot, on the other hand, it only works for huge pulls. It's useless in a one or two-boss fight. Like, completely useless.

What happens to the Paladin that raids Holy but eventually - say the devs screw the pooch and nerf Holy Shock to oblivion - wants to change spec and go Prot or Ret?

They are forced to change Covenants, but changing Covenants is not supposed to be as easy as changing a set of gear. They'll probably have the same issue people had in TBC when changing from Aldors to Scryers, which was having to gather a stupid amount of resources to grind rep all the way down from Hated.

Can you understand why there are people who aren't happy with Shadowlands now?

[8bithamster]

So if you are so sure I am arguing in bad faith and don't care why waste your own time typing me a small novel just to defend an opinion you are already convinced I don't care about?

People grandstanding with "lol no new class what a lazy expac" and basically looking for any excuse to spread negativity are whom I am referring to with my obvious rhetorical questions

If you think that's a novel.. Aah nvm, your signature says enough. I'd suggest picking up a book and realising what a novel is.. Must be a novel idea

[jellmoo]

A mage-tower like place which endless randomly generated levels which you can play solo or in group does sound like a sexy hook to me. Also:

I agree that this sounds very promising. My skepticism comes into play though since I also thought that Island Expeditions and Warfronts sounded promising.

But I have to disagree with some of your "features".

- level squish

Not a feature, this is simply a design choice.

- 4 different sides to pick with new active abilities

Sure, my issue here is that it seems like a less interesting version of the Order Hall system.

- new character customizations

A welcome addition that took way too long to get into the game and I'm reserving judgement until I see all the options they decide to include.

- complete class overhaul (for all classes)

I refuse to give them credit for fixing something they broke as an expansion feature.

- Maw

How is this a feature? Did I miss something,, because this just seems to be a zone.

- better narration system for better story

Until we know what this really means I can't say it's an interesting feature.

- Alt friendly features. If they dont screw this up you will be able to play your alt and not fall behind

Again, this is them fixing a mistake. It's not really a feature.

- Less RNG - you will be able to choose your item frok weekly chest

Also not a feature, a fix.

- Legion like legendaries but with no RNG

We really need more information as to how this will work. Will this be gated? Will it be exclusive for raiders?

- reworked professions - now you can choose the stats you want

This is also a fix, not a feature.

- Scourge invasion on Azeroth 2.0

This is pre-patch. Not sure if it should count.

- DK for everyone

Also pre-patch, and so thin that I can't call it a feature.

So far there is not a single feature announced that sounds bad.

Here's the thing though. The bulk of this list doesn't feel like a feature. Most items feel like fixes for things that they broke. Instead of deep features like Order Halls, Artifact Weapons, Garrisons, Island Expeditions, Mage Tower, etc... This seem to be small band aids to offset the damage that got done to the game in BfA. This is all content patch stuff to me. The endless dungeon sounds cool, and the convenants seems okayish I guess. But other than those, there isn't a big beefy mechanical hook.

I am rather hyped.

I'm happy for you. Really, I am. I just wish I was too.

[jellmoo]

Like a new class that most people wont bother with anyway? cause this is the most hilarious complain i read, just look at dhs, how many still play a dh? yep, its always the same "hurr durr blizz why no new class to use for 5 days" lul.

A new class is a sexy hook to get people to look hard at an expansion. The idea that most people don't bother with it is ridiculous. Just think about how many people tried out a Death Knight, Monk or Demon Hunter and loved it so much they decided to make it their main. Just because you don't care, doesn't mean that others don't. It's also a contributing factor as to why expansions like Cataclysm, Warlords of Draenor and Battle for Azeroth are looked at as being lackluster.

[Huggykaze]

They basically decided to finally implement all the changes that shoulda' been in patches ago this xpac. Which means WoW will finally be a modernized, non-rng filled mess for the first time since Legion.

They did no such thing. They said they want to reduce RNG (not get rid of it) by making professions non-RNG-dependent and weekly chest LESS RNG-dependent. This is a content patch level change for now. Also nothing that would solve the actual problems was announced.

- - - Updated - - -

yeah covenants are gonna be awful:
- a throughput ability (class/spec specific) and a utility ability (not class specific)
- except picking one forces your pick for the other one
- and it’s hell to change them

it’s basically two new talent rows but worse. I can already see the apology blue posts and fixes in 9.1 after months of ignoring ptr feedback.

we lost a new class/4th spec for this?

Again, you are talking about stuff that was not even touched upon by the devs... Seriously?

[Teekey]

Again, you are talking about stuff that was not even touched upon by the devs... Seriously?

It's been discussed in interviews, and the Kyrian class abilities are available on WoWHead.

I think they're pretty valid concerns, although a little early to start being a Chicken Little.