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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    You calling somebody a battered wife isn't ''having a different opinion''

    Grow up.



    Where can I find the interviews done by Bay and Preach? Unless I'm blind I don't see them on the front page yet
    Literally on the previous page.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3Fw...ature=youtu.be

    Quote Originally Posted by Teekey View Post
    If the shoe fits...You just can't stand people criticizing or having any different opinion.

    I think it's you that needs to grow up.
    You made an absolutely ridiculous comparison, people called you out on it, and you got all defensive. If there's anyone needing to do any growing up...I'm afraid it is you.
    If the future is female...get ready for apocalypse.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by ZimeUK View Post
    He specifically said that there will be a cap for what provides your character power. My point is that there is an ENDLESS grind for Artifact Power and Azerite. This system is not that. It's a weekly cap to power followed by a choice to earn some cool rewards afterwards.
    My point was to point out how different people mean different things with Ion saying "AP grind is over" period.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    You’re right that we don’t know but skepticism is certainly warranted at this point.
    This is targeting a very different issue, though. MoP was known for actually doing pretty decent with the Valor cap once you got over the hump of too many dailies being a thing in 5.0. After that, it was pretty good progression-wise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    My point was to point out how different people mean different things with Ion saying "AP grind is over" period.
    But some of those people are objectively wrong.

    In 11.0, we discover that you can earn Badges of Butts and spend 50 Badges of Butts to add +5 item level to one of your items. You can only get 150 Badges of Butts every week. You can get them from anywhere, and usually can get your 150 with 3-5 hours of play within that week

    "This is just like an AP grind!"

    Except it's not. Not everything that you obtain in this fucking game is AP!

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    Depends on the player I guess. In real life raiding is working 8-4, and if you're a youtuber or streamer, you're a lazy bastard in your family's eyes probably. In wow, if you're a collector, same applies to you, while you're the hard worker breadwinner if you're a raider. Oh, it's just cosmetics *shrug*. Tell you what. cosmetics are and have been the new hot topic in wow in the past 4-6 years. Allied races? heritage armour? island + mounts? Good morning. While you think only raids and power progression matters, there are a lot of people who emphasize on cosmetics. That's what sells. And with that, that's not really a choice. or jsut as much as AP grind for serious raiders.
    I understand cosmetics are more important to you, and to that end, I'd have thought the main focus of what was posted in this case was the changes to alts. This not only allows players who want cosmetic rewards from drops to do end-game progression while they level, but also allows you to join each covenant and gain the rewards from those. Are you suggesting that all cosmetics should be easy to get? Perhaps there could be a more interesting way to obtain these elements which aren't tied to the 'raiding' system. Ultimately I think that the system is an overall improvement for everyone and doesn't leave anyone behind. It offers the average player a way to remain relevant for the entire expansion and it also allows the average player to grind for cosmetics should they choose to.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    Could be, but they literally stated there would be no "AP grind" in Shadowlands.

    AP existing without the grind would be fine.
    Well, yes, because Anima is not AP... yet. Also, you will be forced to brainlessly grind a ton of other stuff. The core problem is not being solved.

  6. #86
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    Yea it probly is but they said in an interview there would be no way to repeatedly grind it. Like if you could only get AP through stuff like dailies, world quests, weekly quests, and weekly raid clears.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Dziubla View Post
    You made an absolutely ridiculous comparison, people called you out on it, and you got all defensive. If there's anyone needing to do any growing up...I'm afraid it is you.
    You can whine about the analogy, but simple fact is that some people are just fanboying and can't stand any criticism to Blizzard.

    I think it's completely appropriate for people to be apprehensive after BFA, and not necessarily take their word at face value.

  8. #88
    It will be our engame resource, but I think a few notable key differences can be gleamed from it already:
    - likely be hard capped or at least harder capped this time around
    - likely be available from multiple relyable sources again (no more 50 from a m+ chest yet 5k from shitelands)
    - no item directly empowering us
    - will be used to buy/forge legendaries (major improvement of the legion implementation)
    - possible cosmetic uses for excess

    what will be similar
    - used to buy talents from the covenants as endgame progression
    - awfully suspicious name (as Ion already admitted).
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Teekey View Post
    You can whine about the analogy, but simple fact is that some people are just fanboying and can't stand any criticism to Blizzard.

    I think it's completely appropriate for people to be apprehensive after BFA, and not necessarily take their word at face value.
    Dude, this isn't being against criticism. And not taking word at face value is weird when we have specifics. I would understand if they said "Anima isn't like AP, it'll be infinitely usable for progression purposes BUT this time we're going to make it fun, we promise!" or something equally vague.

    But if anything we hear that's concrete like "There's a weekly cap that's reasonable" can just be criticized with "well, they're just lying," there's basically no reason to read or listen to anything about the development of the game whatsoever or discuss it on a forum and instead we should all just immediately assume now to not play. Which...defeats the purpose of fandom and talking about information we were just given. Like in this thread.

  10. #90
    Herald of the Titans TigTone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huggykaze View Post
    Well, yes, because Anima is not AP... yet. Also, you will be forced to brainlessly grind a ton of other stuff. The core problem is not being solved.
    This game has been nothing but endless grinds since it has existed.

    Are you all blind and crazy?

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Weatherwax View Post
    You're all fighting over Anima being the new Azerite when the true issue is Covenant being the new Azerite traits.

    They're supposed to work like Aldor/Scryers, but with the classes still being pruned to death (talent tree will not change at all) and the class devs being complete idiots, as we saw all through BfA, people will have to change Covenants every patch at least.

    I'm giving retail WoW a pass this time because they're taking a bigger dump on the lore than they did with BfA (I mean, come on, it was Sargeras who created the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne, this whole "Hurr Durr it was made in Shadowlands" retcon makes me retch), but I played BfA since the first day of Beta, and I can see Covenants being an issue from here.
    How it all ties in with the Shadowlands proper, definitely remains to be seen, not really disagreeing with you there. But Sargeras did not forge the Helm of Domination. Pretty sure it was Kil'jaeden and the Nathrezim who did all the mind-twisting, spirit-rending and forging to create the OG Lich King as we know it from WC3, aka Ner'zhul bound to the armor and helm. That being said, given the lore developments since, it wouldn't be -too- outlandish to think there's ties with the Shadowlands, considering the Legion seemed pretty keen on having their own loop of death/rebirth thanks to what they did to Argus. You'd think they'd at least have to have some knowledge OF the Shadowlands and how death works in the Universe. In which case it is also not too outlandish to think or even newly introduce Lore that at least shows they were aware of it. At the end, they still created the Lich King, the Helm and the Armor, none of which is retconned so far. Given the Legion we know, they may have been involved with the Jailor/Maw or at least somehow got involved with the Shadowlands themselves, in order to grasp the knowledge logically required to forge a piece such as the Helm of Domination.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by ZimeUK View Post
    I understand cosmetics are more important to you, and to that end, I'd have thought the main focus of what was posted in this case was the changes to alts. This not only allows players who want cosmetic rewards from drops to do end-game progression while they level, but also allows you to join each covenant and gain the rewards from those. Are you suggesting that all cosmetics should be easy to get? Perhaps there could be a more interesting way to obtain these elements which aren't tied to the 'raiding' system. Ultimately I think that the system is an overall improvement for everyone and doesn't leave anyone behind. It offers the average player a way to remain relevant for the entire expansion and it also allows the average player to grind for cosmetics should they choose to.
    Well, we have yet to see just how much it takes to cap out anima on a weekly basis, exactly what activities will yield anima, what is the cross gameplay between the anima/soulbinds and the tower. Anima is just one thing. The tower is a standalone progression thingie grind itself, which is mandatory.
    Will it be like Legion and BfA where the starting system is almost unbearable and they nerf it overtime with patches, and it will only be somewhat good with the last patch? The key is in the nuances with systems like this.
    Last edited by Lei; 2019-11-02 at 04:08 PM.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    But if anything we hear that's concrete like "There's a weekly cap that's reasonable" can just be criticized with "well, they're just lying," there's basically no reason to read or listen to anything about the development of the game whatsoever or discuss it on a forum and instead we should all just immediately assume now to not play. Which...defeats the purpose of fandom and talking about information we were just given. Like in this thread.
    People are just arguing technicalities. To you, "No AP Grind" seems to mean something very specific. But other people still see it as a "grind".

    Neither are necessarily wrong. People are just talking past each other.

  14. #94
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    Could be, but they literally stated there would be no "AP grind" in Shadowlands.

    AP existing without the grind would be fine.
    Yeah...and they said people loved Legiondaries...said that they wanted to get rid of titanforging because of rng, then replaced it with a system that is rng on top of rng...they said they'd fix broken classes in 8.1 and all they did was give them some damage buffs.

    They say a lot of things that don't really come true.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Your post talked about having to log in, if your 'having' to log in your not playing regularly. Chores or not.
    Apologies if I wasn't clear - I want to be able to *finish* the gameplay I don't like which affects the gameplay I actually want to do. An example - in early expansions there were things locked behind reputation which I wanted. Sometimes they were crafting recipes, sometimes they were heroic keys. In order to unlock those things I had to grind my reputation to that point, and then I had the thing - it was done. For the rest of the expansion I never had to grind those reputations again. I could log on and do the content I actually wanted to do, such as play alts, run dungeons, lose some BGs - whatever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Nah nah, see... I live by one simple creed: You might catch more flies with honey, but to catch honeys you gotta be fly.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by oplawlz View Post
    Apologies if I wasn't clear - I want to be able to *finish* the gameplay I don't like which affects the gameplay I actually want to do. An example - in early expansions there were things locked behind reputation which I wanted. Sometimes they were crafting recipes, sometimes they were heroic keys. In order to unlock those things I had to grind my reputation to that point, and then I had the thing - it was done. For the rest of the expansion I never had to grind those reputations again. I could log on and do the content I actually wanted to do, such as play alts, run dungeons, lose some BGs - whatever.
    And you will be able to do all those things adequately while being behind on Anima. And you will likely get Anima from doing those things.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Teekey View Post
    People are just arguing technicalities. To you, "No AP Grind" seems to mean something very specific. But other people still see it as a "grind".

    Neither are necessarily wrong. People are just talking past each other.
    That's not how reality works.

    If you say that A is A very aggressively and accuse anyone saying otherwise as an apologist/fanboy, but new information comes out that A is actually B, you can't fall back on "Well, aren't A and B very similar? We should all be better communicators. :^)"

    When people talk about "an AP grind," it's inferred that they're referring to the mechanics of the actual AP grind we got across the last two expansions - a series of tasks you can do to get currency that has no cap or end tail. A grind that literally has no completion and exponentially raises with each new rank/iteration.

    Meanwhile, a series of currencies that have a finite cap fits with entire other sections of content in the game's history, such as Badges of Valor. Semantically, if you said "Anima is just Valor!" then you'd probably have the same "fanboys" agreeing, because it is.

    But the semantics are totally different and are dishonest. AP is maligned for a very specific reason (infinite, and thus pressuring for min/maxers, exponential ), not because you do things in the game for it. Because the nature of a modern MMO even before WoW is...doing things in the game world for power or prestige/cosmetic rewards. So pretty much the only thing they have in common is "I need to play the game to get the thing," which is kind of the nature of games.

    Now if you were to say "Anima could be a problem if it has too high of a cap or if activities aren't rewarding enough," similar to the examples of other things they've messed up like @Sorotia above, then that would be something. And a perfectly valid concern to be addressed, so no "fanboying" there.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    And you will be able to do all those things adequately while being behind on Anima. And you will likely get Anima from doing those things.
    Riiiight, just like AP?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Nah nah, see... I live by one simple creed: You might catch more flies with honey, but to catch honeys you gotta be fly.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    That's not how reality works.

    If you say that A is A very aggressively and accuse anyone saying otherwise as an apologist/fanboy, but new information comes out that A is actually B, you can't fall back on "Well, aren't A and B very similar? We should all be better communicators. :^)"
    LOL. I'm accusing him of being a fanboy for following me around to different threads just to argue.

    I actually think this is a good change to the system, but I can understand why some people disagree.

    And that's kind of my entire point with my comment to him - there's people who just refuse to try and understand a different viewpoint and just want to argue against any criticism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    When people talk about "an AP grind," it's inferred that they're referring to the mechanics of the actual AP grind we got across the last two expansions - a series of tasks you can do to get currency that has no cap or end tail. A grind that literally has no completion and exponentially raises with each new rank/iteration.
    Because people can't have their own perspective. If you talk about AP, you can only refer to it how you want it to be referred to. Got it.

  20. #100
    Ion said 'Anima Power" in Preach interview, so yeah

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