There's no choice in Covenants - they will be min-maxed anyway

[Kendros]

Well duuhhh.
Too much choice is just bad, bad to balance and bad to choose because min maxing. On top of that we will have that soulbinding crap youll have to choose too, plus legendaries, plus talents, plus tier sets(maybe). I can see the nightmare it will be to balance classes.

[arkanon]

By this logic there should only be one class and three specs. There’s no choice in dps/tank/healer if every one min maxes and takes the best one. There’s also no choice in talents because you can min max them so take out all talents. Also take out the races because you can mix max those to.

We should all just be the same grey blob race with the game talents and class other wise it’s a dumb system because people min max.

I will wait and see how they go with it, but the way i see it, the guides will just have a new tab, covenant, and just tell everyone what to pick for what spec.

I agree the choice / consequence thing happens elsewhere in game, but its much closer to talent choices rather than class / spec. And talents can be changed on the fly between encounters, covenants cannot. I would have much preferred if they offered substantial and plentiful cosmetic rewards rather than gameplay ones.

[Gherothar]

By this logic there should only be one class and three specs. There’s no choice in dps/tank/healer if every one min maxes and takes the best one. There’s also no choice in talents because you can min max them so take out all talents. Also take out the races because you can mix max those to.

We should all just be the same grey blob race with the game talents and class other wise it’s a dumb system because people min max.

This. MMOChamp really needs to add an upvote system.

[cocomen2]

You are either WITH or AGAINST customization.

Here a little trick with this, Yeah i want a new "customization" options but not like this :

"Oh to make customization options possible we sacrificed resources of developing new class,new specs,class balance"

I dont want customization options that was gained through sacrifice of other features of game.

But they act as if whole developing team DOING 24/7 only "customization", "its costed us WHOLE RAID TIER" talk.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I will wait and see how they go with it, but the way i see it, the guides will just have a new tab, covenant, and just tell everyone what to pick for what spec.

I agree the choice / consequence thing happens elsewhere in game, but its much closer to talent choices rather than class / spec. And talents can be changed on the fly between encounters, covenants cannot. I would have much preferred if they offered substantial and plentiful cosmetic rewards rather than gameplay ones.

It comes down to how impactful they will be, sure it could be as little as one talent or another but it could also be a abig as having the extra utility or damage of a mage/warlock depending on how far they go with them.

[kail]

What exactly isn't min-maxed? Race choice can be min-maxed, professions can be decided for min-max purposes, etc. Will there be a best Covenant choice for a Patchwork fight, sure. Will that same choice dominate the others in every scenario? Hopefully not and that's up to Blizzard's balancing capabilities.

[arkanon]

It comes down to how impactful they will be, sure it could be as little as one talent or another but it could also be a abig as having the extra utility or damage of a mage/warlock depending on how far they go with them.

Yup, i agree, and i think myself and some others are concerned that they will just dive WAY too deep with this and it will be far too impactful, or, it will be meaningless, and undermine the entire covenant system. My concern is that as it is a new system, and the key new feature of the entire expansion, they will double down on this and those abilities will be extremely powerful - assuming you pick the right one.

[Relapses]

This. MMOChamp really needs to add an upvote system.

Kinda OT but I would instantly leave if that happened. This place is enough of an echo chamber already.

[Tech614]

This. MMOChamp really needs to add an upvote system.

Reddit exists. We don't need another one.

[Appelgren]

Same as all other games. There will.alwaya be something that's the absolute best in any given scenario.

Dont see the reason to make this a thread...

[Sezh]

It all depends on how big the differences in power between the covenants are.

You can sim out the best race for every spec, but since the differences are minimal, you don't need to care about that unless you are literally competing in the race for world first.

Also, there are a lot of best talents that you don't have to follow for many classes in order to be competitive because two talents might be similar in performance and it's down to player preference.

So these situations already exist in the current game, there's no guarantee that the covenant system could not be another one of those situations. We'll have to wait and see.

[ErrandRunner]

People will take the one with the mathematically best skills and that's it. I don't get why Blizzard thinks this gives choice to the players. It absolutely does not. Especially with this 'you can only choose one, so choose wisely' crap. This will only make me look up a guide on what's providing the best DPS/HPS/Utility.

Am I missing something here or is this system a really dumb idea?

Players like you, the ones obsessed with being the best, strongest, most achieves etc. are the reason retail WOW is in its current state. If you feel obliged to search the Internet for the best build in order to play a game that's meant to be about having fun, I would question whether you are playing the game for the right reasons.

[Muajin76]

Is one covenant more OP than the other? IF so, why is this a good idea? Each should have their good/bad parts. Not just one being good and the other being *meh*

[shise]

No, they will probably end up quite balanced, because people will play them all. Expect the necro and the vampires to be the most popular, at least right away, but people will play them all.
Don´t we all have like 6 characters absolute minimum to get up asap ?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Eh, I'll just pick the one that has the chillest order/covenant hall to AFK in and the coolest armor.

I'm not fond of associating with demons or evil edgy folk, so Necrolords are out, and maybe the Venthyr. I'm sort of torn on the Venthyr and Revendreth, will have to wait and see the final result. Kyrians and Night Fae seem to be chill, but the Kyrians are just ancient greeks, and I can't imagine the fairy aesthetic mixing with many class fantasies.

[Ariktu]

The problem is that if one is the best likely part way thru the expansion Blizzard will nerf it making it no longer the best forcing people to flock to whichever one is the new best.

Enjoy the extra grind as Blizzard rebalances these during the expansion.

[DrayygoSham]

Forcing players to chose the talent they don't want over the ones that look really cool because its worse dps and dps is basically the metric that determines if you stay or leave most groups. Removing dps meters would increase the fun, Not removing it

Yeah. It would increase the fun on constantly wiping on bosses, because you cant determine what is the problem. Too less healing? Too less DPS? Both? Is someone slacking and only spamming Frostbolt? (That is why Combatlogging is good)
Also most of the real high end mythic raiders (famed raiding essentially) wont take the best DPS Covenant. Most will take the best Utility Covenant, because doing 0.1% more DPS doesnt mean much, if you lose 0.2% DPS because you have a shit gap closer (just an example) and lose uptime on the bosses. Also, some Covenants/Abilities that are slightly better than others may have you doing a way more complex rotation/prio, which is maybe more punished by sudden movement due to mechanics. Something that Raidbots doesnt tell you, so you wont pick this, too. Or maybe you are comfortable, and you do. Even in the top 100 Logs/Guilds you find diversity in talents (at least for my class, Elemental Shaman). Some will pick Primal Elementalist because its easier and has less room for errors, some like me, will stick to IF because more complex = more fun (for ME!, i dont judge anyone doing otherwise). Also, those "elitist min/maxers" that wont invite you because of the covenant you chose will 99% be guys, that never saw a CE in their lives and just listened to whatever streamer is telling them is good. If you´re pushing for high keys and have a decent r.io score (which will still be the only good metric to choose who to take to a high key), you will be invited regardless of your covenant (maybe not if you´re an arcane mage or enhancement shaman, but fuck them, tbh). That is just my perception from playing WoW since Vanilla.

[Th3Scourge]

So should be only be playing brewmasters, 3x outlaw rogues and a resto Druid in every m+ run?

Because that’s what you’re saying.

[Daevelian]

I don't overly care which is the strongest choice or not, i just know i ain't going anywhere near that edgelord faction of vampires.

[Gaidax]

Well, I and the guild will certainly min-max this thing. I just hope I won't be forced into some total cancer ability just because of that. Whether it's Vampires, Fairies, Necrobois or Angelbois, I don't mind much.

Ideally, I would like to have 2 covenants being mathematically within 1% raiding-wise, so I have actual aesthetics choice.