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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Craaazyyy View Post
    well i agree, i want more shit to be changed/brought back
    Yeah I didn't mean to sound like I was calling you out on anything, sorry. Your post just seemed like a good jumping off point for continuing the discussion.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by trebor View Post
    The removal of bad or boring features doesn't get me excited for an expansion, and that seems to be most of what they're doing for this expansion.
    So so much this.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Rotted View Post
    Community moans for years about losing class identity, one of the most mentioned ones being pally auras.

    Get them back and within essentially minutes people are bitching about them coming back.
    Giving back old abilities isn't an expansion feature. Its a content patch.

    Its underwhelming because they didn't introduce anything truly new and core for classes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theangryone View Post
    See Blizz makes changes and the "community" freaks out and constantly complains that Blizz doesn't listen to them. Well, Blizz listened to them, gave them the changes they wanted, and they are still mad.
    It is literally impossible for Blizz to do anything that doesn't end in edgelord bitching
    Giving back old abilities is a content patch, it isn't an expansion feature.

  4. #84
    Immortal roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemonHunter18 View Post
    no class charges basically.

    another artifact type stuff.

    yeah...

    I wonder what did the audience think.

    I didn't bought the ticket ofc.
    How does "You're getting a ton of spells back" not equal class changes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcsaar View Post
    Giving back old abilities isn't an expansion feature. Its a content patch.

    Its underwhelming because they didn't introduce anything truly new and core for classes.

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    Giving back old abilities is a content patch, it isn't an expansion feature.
    I guess you missed the part where we're getting a new spell from the covenant, and then a whole series of changes from these shadowbind things?
    It was never Hardcore Vs Casual. It was Socialites Vs. Solo players
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    World of Warcraft started life as a Computer Roleplaying Game, where part of the fun of the game experience was pretending to be your character. Stuff like applying poisons and eating food enhanced the verisimilitude of the experience of playing a fantasy character in another world. Now that game has changed to become a tactical arcade lobby game.

  5. #85
    The expansion can't be more than 6-9 months away, and is this really all they have to share with us? There was no real "hook" no sweeping changes to problems that have been plaguing people since the start of bfa, just de pruning flavor abilities and a small explanation of the new "order halls" which most people will have min/max details about written down and mapped out before beta is over. honestly the no new class or race thing has me worried this is going to be another WoD, pretty to look at the start but a few weeks in and the honeymoon will crash and burn.

  6. #86
    Immortal roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotted View Post
    Community moans for years about losing class identity, one of the most mentioned ones being pally auras.

    Get them back and within essentially minutes people are bitching about them coming back.
    This is MMO champion my dude. It's where bitching reigns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LostSinclair View Post
    The expansion can't be more than 6-9 months away, and is this really all they have to share with us? There was no real "hook" no sweeping changes to problems that have been plaguing people since the start of bfa, just de pruning flavor abilities and a small explanation of the new "order halls" which most people will have min/max details about written down and mapped out before beta is over. honestly the no new class or race thing has me worried this is going to be another WoD, pretty to look at the start but a few weeks in and the honeymoon will crash and burn.
    TBH, I was unimpressed with the MoP and the Legion Blizzcons too, but they ended up being badass. I was excited for WoD and BFA, and welp. So, if my track record is any indication.
    It was never Hardcore Vs Casual. It was Socialites Vs. Solo players
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    World of Warcraft started life as a Computer Roleplaying Game, where part of the fun of the game experience was pretending to be your character. Stuff like applying poisons and eating food enhanced the verisimilitude of the experience of playing a fantasy character in another world. Now that game has changed to become a tactical arcade lobby game.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    How does "You're getting a ton of spells back" not equal class changes?

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    I guess you missed the part where we're getting a new spell from the covenant, and then a whole series of changes from these shadowbind things?
    They're talking about the fact that Blizzard stated they would not be doing a big class overhaul, and that they didn't want to make any class changes that would be "disruptive to players". All of that seems to imply that the core mechanics of every class/spec will stay relatively the same.

    A single quirky Covenant ability and a generic pan-class talent system (Soulbinds) are just sprinkles on top of existing class mechanics, not something that change how you're going to play your class/spec.

  8. #88
    Deep dive wasn't as deep as I had hoped.

  9. #89
    Immortal roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trebor View Post
    They're talking about the fact that Blizzard stated they would not be doing a big class overhaul, and that they didn't want to make any class changes that would be "disruptive to players". All of that seems to imply that the core mechanics of every class/spec will stay relatively the same.

    A single quirky Covenant ability and a generic pan-class talent system (Soulbinds) are just sprinkles on top of existing class mechanics, not something that change how you're going to play your class/spec.
    Oh, okay I can see that I suppose. But I guess I don't understand why classes need overhauls. What they need is to change slightly throughout an xpack to keep it fresh, Through unlocks and tier gear and trinkets. Only ones I can think of that desperately need overhauls are Unholy Dks.
    It was never Hardcore Vs Casual. It was Socialites Vs. Solo players
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    World of Warcraft started life as a Computer Roleplaying Game, where part of the fun of the game experience was pretending to be your character. Stuff like applying poisons and eating food enhanced the verisimilitude of the experience of playing a fantasy character in another world. Now that game has changed to become a tactical arcade lobby game.

  10. #90
    The lack of concrete examples was concerning, and gives me the impression that little is fundamentally changing. Re-adding abilities that were pruned isn't the same thing as redesigning classes. I want to know how classes and specs will be functionally different. If I'm playing a Shadow Priest and I have Flash Heal back, how does that actually affect my game? Can I jump in and spot heal? Can a Ret Paladin jump in and tank if need be? The plan here feels like there's little thought behind it other than "hey, we brought old abilities back, BE HAPPY!".

    Everything about this expansion is feeling so incredibly lazy. It lacks features, lacks agency and lacks a solid hook. It feels like an expansion where they are just trying to fix problems that they let get out of control for too long. There's nothing wrong with that approach, but it makes for something that's incredibly difficult to get excited about.

  11. #91
    It feels like they are at a very early stage of development. They usually give a date for Alpha/Beta but even that is far from ready.

  12. #92
    This is the announcement. Look back at previous xpacs and their announcements weekends... the only thing we seem to be missing is a class or race. Everything else seems reasonable. Just about as many features as other xpacs. You have seen very little of the game and already you hate it.

    It's not possible to revert the game back to vanilla standards in 1 xpac and people who think it is that easy are morons. The people who have no interest in playing classic will need to be eased into this shit. I give it by 10.0 until most stuff is reverted. Its gonna be awhile. So if you're okay with playing classic for 3-4 years rock out my guys. But dont think they aren't trying.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    Oh, okay I can see that I suppose. But I guess I don't understand why classes need overhauls. What they need is to change slightly throughout an xpack to keep it fresh, Through unlocks and tier gear and trinkets. Only ones I can think of that desperately need overhauls are Unholy Dks.
    It's fair that you don't understand why classes need overhauls, but for those of us who have disliked our favorite spec since the Legion overhaul it's a different story. Until BFA, classes generally went through some changes in how they were played each expansion. If I didn't like playing a spec, I could wait until the next expansion to see if it would get better. The spec I used to love has gone largely unchanged for two whole expansion, and now Blizzard tells me that they're just going to keep everything like it is for the third expansion in a row.

    Edit:
    Not to mention that shuffling up class/spec mechanics keeps the gameplay fresh and exciting. Playing the exact same class/spec three+ expansions in a row can get really old, even if you like their mechanics.
    Last edited by trebor; 2019-11-02 at 11:21 PM.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by iosdeveloper View Post
    Best thing about Shadowlands is we'll have a ton of free time to spend on self-improvement/hobbies
    LMAO. already there with BFA

  15. #95
    Altough at first glance, on friday update panel it felt exciting as they were addressing the main issues of current gameplay, after today I feel truly disappointed.

    Doom & gloom - it won't change a lot. I truly think Blizzard needs to look at all their systems - talents, leveling system, reward systems, professions - instead of giving players some external sources of power that are getting more and more confusing.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by lachlol View Post
    Altough at first glance, on friday update panel it felt exciting as they were addressing the main issues of current gameplay, after today I feel truly disappointed.

    Doom & gloom - it won't change a lot. I truly think Blizzard needs to look at all their systems - talents, leveling system, reward systems, professions - instead of giving players some external sources of power that are getting more and more confusing.
    I feel the same way. I'm genuinely excited about the tower feature, and even though I'm not super excited about Covenants and the stuff that comes with them it seems like a cool enough feature. The new zones look absolutely gorgeous and thematically it seems like a really fun expansion.

    But when they affirmed today that they were trying to stay away from big gameplay changes when it comes to classes, I got really disappointed. I won't want to play with these new features, no matter how cool they are, if I don't like the core gameplay, which all comes down to classes (as Ian himself has said before).

    Plus, this is the second expansion in a row where Blizzard have said they're not going to change core class gameplay. It just feels like they've more or less decided to stop working on classes ever since Legion.
    Last edited by trebor; 2019-11-02 at 11:44 PM.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Dakara View Post
    This!

    I don’t mind being underwhelmed by fixes if they actually come through and fix the game.

    I’m tired of “all new systems” that end up being the same mindless grind as the last one. Less is more. If the class design and gameplay is improved in ShadowLands I’m more likely the return to WOW than if they announced “Tinkers! AP3.0, Islands 2.0, Mythic ++ etc”
    I concur that removing the headache systems was a great first step. Bringing back pruned abilities was another good step.

    But many specs need to have a serious eye placed on them and actually fixed. Not just more abilities (old or not) thrown at them.

    I’ll patiently wait for the beta and see what actual features they eventually announce before making a personal judgement I guess.

  18. #98
    First expansion I don't see any exciting new stuff in. No new classes, no new races, no new features at all... just new zones, some new story and new customization option for the old races, that's all that's "interesting" imho.

  19. #99
    I’m glad they gave back some long lost abilities. But I was expecting more in terms of class design too. All throughout BfA they said that the “class overhauls” would be for the next expansion, and then Holinka says that they won’t doing any major overhaul because it would be too jarring.

    Like... what? survival was made melee. Combat turned into outlaw. Shadow priest got the void form mechanic. They are no stranger to making jarring class changes, and shadow needs to just be overhauled imo. ESPECIALLY with no new classes, I truly hope they do something special for the ones we have, beyond giving back old abilities that never should’ve left.

    I’m still excited for Shadowlands though. Getting back Shadow Word: Death baseline is great.
    change can't wait.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by trebor View Post
    I feel the same way. I'm genuinely excited about the tower feature, and even though I'm not super excited about Covenants and the stuff that comes with them it seems like a cool enough feature. The new zones look absolutely gorgeous and thematically it seems like a really fun expansion.

    But when they affirmed today that they were trying to stay away from big gameplay changes when it comes to classes, I got really disappointed. I won't want to play with these new features, no matter how cool they are, if I don't like the core gameplay, which all comes down to classes (as Ian himself has said before).

    Plus, this is the second expansion in a row where Blizzard have said they're not going to change core class gameplay. It just feels like they've more or less decided to stop working on classes ever since Legion.
    I still believe Blizzard needs to completely redefine their core philosophy. New features are definitely more exciting than BfA's, but still, it's all based on the same premises. Apart from the Tower, which is really cool and innovative, everything is more or less a copy-paste and you can't produce expansions like that endlessly.

    Leveling system changed nothing apart from pleasing the audience which is more like: "fuck the leveling, we don't want it". They changed literally nothing. They stated that it will make each level more meaningful - and how can that be if you will level your character to 50 within one day... each level every 15 minutes or so? You will forget to click that talent, it will be THAT rushed.

    New leveling system required a progression system, maybe class campaigns every 10 levels with fascinating rewards. It needs to direct people into the world. Not simply getting an ''in-build'' heirloom system that transforms leveling into slashing-through-boars-fest.

    Once again, they have a problem with diagnosing the issues, by listening to people who can't look for what is healthy for the game in a long term. Meh.

    Let's hope this expansion is cool after all

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