Anyone else under whelmed by the deep dive?

[MakeLKGreatAgain]

Yeah it kinda feels like a major patch rather than an expansion pack.

[Soulwind]

It does sound like another potential WoD.

They're betting on the Torghast Tower pretty strongly, and it could bite them in the ass. Particularly if, like Garrisons, they scrap half of its features before beta. This would leave them with the choice of adding major features mid expansion, or rushing out another expansion bloated with shortsighted features such as Legiondaries or Artifact Weapons.

Or maybe the tower will be a success and a permanent feature in future expansions, like Mythic+, flexible raids or World Quests.

[Erous]

why do you assume they are bringign talent trees back

all they spoken about meaningfull levelings.

nothing about talent trees. zero .
.

I'm not assuming they're bringing talent trees back, I'm hopeful that they're making some meaningful changes. The main reason is because I'm an optimistic person. The world isn't ending all around me.

[Kyphael]

Odd that your forgot to mention
A new quest zone described as inherently unsafe and difficult.

Difficulty is subjective. How long until it gets nerfed because people cry it's too hard?

A new roguelike increasingly difficult dungeon crawl experience.

Again, difficulty levels in WoW are subjective. Things get tuned up or down all the time.

Removal of the RNG clownfiesta.

I'll believe that shit when I see it.

Craft your own legendaries.

How much info is there even on this?

Artifact weapons 2.0 (Soulbinds).

Glad it's back, it should have never been taken away.

Honestly this looks far superior to BFA in every way. You are simply just mad because we did not get a new class, like big whoop we don't need one.

Also enjoy your break, though i doubt you will, as posting and whining on the forums will keep you too busy.

Mad? No, disappointed? Yes. Fixing things you broke aren't "new features", it's patching things up. Yeah, you think so? I took a three year break from WoD without ever being tempted to come back until Legion announcement. Didn't come back until Legion, not that this has any sort of bearing that strengthens your argument in anyway, but I'd fling poo too if I was trying to defend Shadowlands' "Deep" Dive.

[Teekey]

Or maybe the tower will be a success and a permanent feature in future expansions, like Mythic+, flexible raids or World Quests.

Problem with that is that it's so Expansion-specific. M+ and WQ work from Expac to Expac because they're just an extension of other content.

[Kyphael]

Wait, when did they say they were adding combat back? I completely missed that, and it would make me so excited to play my rogue again.

Meant Outlaw. lol I still forget they changed the spec since I've hardly played it.

[Rafalga]

If you watched the Ion interview it has a lot of "uhmmm"s and "aaaaah"s and "we don't know"s in it. Considering the release is like 13-14 months away, i sense another WoD aka "we will develop it while you play it" exp.

Essences and Azerite gear will be gone also so we will once again be left with bare bones specs at the start. I don't think they have enough talent left to salvage the gameplay so that's probably why announcement is so cosmetics heavy. (which is only relevant to those who like to play dress up)

[Sorrior]

It does sound like another potential WoD.

They're betting on the Torghast Tower pretty strongly, and it could bite them in the ass. Particularly if, like Garrisons, they scrap half of its features before beta. This would leave them with the choice of adding major features mid expansion, or rushing out another expansion bloated with shortsighted features such as Legiondaries or Artifact Weapons.

Or maybe the tower will be a success and a permanent feature in future expansions, like Mythic+, flexible raids or World Quests.

I suspect permanent and they are adding it cause something similars semi popular in ffxiv..tbh this entire space has ffxiv vibes to me

[Molis]

yeah it was awful.

I feel sorry for people who paid to go to blizzcon.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post51821953

Dont feel sorry I had a fucking blast.

One day you will get that Evil Blizzard....and his dog too!!!!!

[TigTone]

I suspect permanent and they are adding it cause something similars semi popular in ffxiv..tbh this entire space has ffxiv vibes to me

Or you know diablo greater rifts not FFXIV.

A mode from their other games not FFXIV.

[Malikath]

Why would they mention Arthas? He's dead and gone.

because, he's just like this game and it's player-base.

- - - Updated - - -

Or maybe the tower will be a success and a permanent feature in future expansions, like Mythic+, flexible raids or World Quests.

[Soulwind]

Problem with that is that it's so Expansion-specific. M+ and WQ work from Expac to Expac because they're just an extension of other content.

Well, the next iteration doesn't have to be the same literal tower. It's already an evolution of Invasion Points from Argus, Island Expeditions and the Deaths of Chromie. So next expansion they could make each "floor" a different plane, planet, island or region, and keep the random-with-progression gameplay.

[Amaterasu65]

hmm, very optimistic all things considering

Not optimistic, it's what they announced.

[Gasparde]

The expansion looks more unfinished than any expansion presented at a Blizzcon in recent years.

Their answer to basically everything was just about always shit's in a very early stage, still discussing this, still discussing that, haven't made up our minds about it yet, not decided on that one yet, we're only just starting with this. Which is just incredibly weird for an expansion that basically only adds like 2 new things - but I suppose making sure the squish doesn't fuck up everything and actually putting any investment into classes at all is just taking more time than fucking islands or warfronts.

I'm afraid we're headed for another alpha/beta where nothing's happening until the very end and all of our feedback basically being ignored because they just don't have the time. As much as I like their strict 2 years release schedule because fuck droughts... at least atm it just doesn't seem to be working - and I for one am not willing to play another expansion where the first 6-12 months are basically an extended beta phase.

[Sorrior]

Or you know diablo greater rifts not FFXIV.

A mode from their other games not FFXIV.

Ehhh it feels VERY deep dungeon less greater rift.

Even some zone designs are very reminiscent of shadowbringers..which is currently competition and blizz is very well known to take stuff from the competition

[TigTone]

Ehhh it feels VERY deep dungeon less greater rift.

Even some zone designs are very reminiscent of shadowbringers..which is currently competition and blizz is very well known to take stuff from the competition

Havnt player shadowbringers so cant argue against you.

And no disagreement with blizz taking from competition.

I’ll have to compare the two when more info on wow tower is released.

[Sorrior]

Havnt player shadowbringers so cant argue against you.

And no disagreement with blizz taking from competition.

I’ll have to compare the two when more info on wow tower is released.

Deep dungeons are a thing most use to level in ffxiv. It is a rogue like dungeon(there are two so far likely a third coming this expansion) where the floors are completely random bar every 10 floors I believe it is where a boss is. Certain floors can have random buffs or debuffs as well

The higher tier floors(100-200 for the original 30-100 for the second) are for prefaces

It awards mostly cosmetics though through random rare chests you find as well as catchup weapons. So while rogue likes are not unique including it in an mmo with a near endless style that awards loot is very similar to it.

Some zones are also similar asthetic wise buut maybe I am looking too much into it

There are other

[Lolites]

to me it felt like they are EXTREMELY early in development... but ill remain optimistic till beta

[pewpmeiser]

I was, they shared little info and the audience was mostly dead as well.

Did we watch the same stream? The audience loved it.

[brt2pp]

I mean , de-pruning old skills is good BUT WHERE NEW STUFF? new skills? new artifact weapons HOPE? new class mechanics ?

#GIVEUSBACKARTIFACTWEAPON (skills atleast into base lane spec)

hello person that doesn't understand why spec feel worse after removal of artifacts