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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    I suppose if they wanted to make it almost the inverse, then Retribution Aura could deal damage to targets that are close to you, diminishing with each additional target in the area.

    Though I think such a design highlights the primary flaw with auras in general. You'd be getting extra damage for simply being there. And that's not in any way, shape, or form an interesting design or ability.
    But the thing is that Auras are important because they are supposed to signify the battlefield presence of a Paladin.

    Auras need to: Signify our weight in a group, so as such they need to have an impact and you will notice when its there. Devotion Aura, Aura of Sacrifice and what not in the Holy Tree are very strong. So I would imagine that if Ret aura had a function it would act as a "conduit pylon" effect or somehow grant additional damage maybe. Either way, im glad Auras are coming back.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    I suppose if they wanted to make it almost the inverse, then Retribution Aura could deal damage to targets that are close to you, diminishing with each additional target in the area.
    I picture an empowered Ret Aura more like a Legion Blessing of Might for everybody: upon activation the whole raid deals additional holy damage for 6/8/10/whatever seconds.
    But I already see the outcry on the forums: paladin op!!
    That's the general problem I have with returning auras: either they are negligible or they are absolutely required in every group/raid. Other classes will hate us even more. A problem I can see only being solved by giving other classes similar effects...shaman totems come to mind. But then people again will cry about "homogenization".
    It's quite a tragic conflict: whatever blizz will do with auras, either paladins will hate them or the other classes will.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Elkas View Post
    Aura's back, along with Consecration and Hammer of Wrath baseline. Overall good changes, although I hope they make aura's more useful to Ret for once.

    Now they just need to keep Holy Power and make sure Seals keep rotting in the boring hellhole that spawned them.
    Seals made ret gameplay mote interesting(talking about seal twisting wod) removing holy power and everything else makes is super boring. There needs to be something tgere besides just pressing what ever is off cooldown.

    Ps: when you made it to get all 4 seals on you with a decent duration just felt rewardibg and you felt strong. Idk if we should bring this back.. this is eitger the choice to go or it will just suck.

  4. #184
    Herald of the Titans Monster Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExiHext View Post
    So with shadowlands on the horizon, I am excited to see what iconic spells are going to return and how the devs will implement that. Will they be impactful or rather lackluster (looking at you, Ret Aura).
    From the Deep Dive it seems Consecration is going to return to all paladins (not sure if I am happy about that), so does Hammer of Wrath.
    I also read about Exorcism for prot (hopefully ret and holy will get the spell, too).
    So what do you expect? What abilities or even mechanics do you want to see returning?
    I miss the sound of exorcism.

    I want all the auras back, including the resistance ones and concentration

    And the same for my shaman, bring back all the totems!!! Searing, magma, fire nova, resistances, grace of air,the lot.

    I love playing resto shaman because it has access to the most utility totems.
    stuck in the D2:shadow keep Que....please send help!

  5. #185
    Over 9000! Grimbold21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoris View Post
    Just give me back Sense Undead, and I'll be happy as a clam at high tide.
    I recall back in vanilla being upset with Sense Undead because it didn't allow me to find forsaken players, and if we know anything about vanilla is that 90% of horde rogues were undead

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulthane View Post
    But the thing is that Auras are important because they are supposed to signify the battlefield presence of a Paladin.

    Auras need to: Signify our weight in a group, so as such they need to have an impact and you will notice when its there. Devotion Aura, Aura of Sacrifice and what not in the Holy Tree are very strong. So I would imagine that if Ret aura had a function it would act as a "conduit pylon" effect or somehow grant additional damage maybe. Either way, im glad Auras are coming back.
    Which puts Blizzard in a very difficult situation.

    Either auras are powerful and noticable, which in turn would require every group to have a Paladin because those buffs are just that good. Or they allow other classes to bring the same buffs - Which would be a return to the "bring the player not the class" days, an idea which players have already rejected.

    There isn't any kind of middle ground where a passive, constant buff both offers an appreciable amount of power but at the same time isn't so powerful it's required. It's not just Blizzard who have run into this issue either. League of Legends have had the same problems with both their champions and their items.

    League of Legend's Taric for instance, a character that was intended to fill the Paladin archetype, used to have an ability that was quite literally Devotion Aura. It gave all his nearby team mates a percentage of his armour. It offered his team a completely bonkers advantage against physical damage dealers - We're talking somewhere in the order of 65+ armour each. Or roughly 1500g worth of stats across his entire team, including himself so a grand total of 6500g worth of stats.

    Here's the crazy part though. No one even noticed! Sona too was a character that was a Bard and provided an obscene amount of extra stats for her team too. Same story, no one even noticed. Thats why those characters have been completely reworked. Their power was invisible to the players and to get it to a point where it was both noticable and appreciable they'd have to be buffed to insane levels. There really isn't a "sweet spot" where these kind of passives are both noticable without being too powerful.

    Now, if Blizzard were to embrace the idea of the Paladin as being a leader or officer that would be something entirely different. Paladins have always featured prominently in the story of Warcraft, and almost always in some kind of leadership role. It's a role that a player could step into too, one that would give the Paladin a great deal of presence but without the need for passivity on the players part. Abilities that would put you in an active leadership role within a group would be far more interesting than simply being a buff on someone elses UI that they're probably never going to look at or care about.

    Quote Originally Posted by ExiHext View Post
    I picture an empowered Ret Aura more like a Legion Blessing of Might for everybody: upon activation the whole raid deals additional holy damage for 6/8/10/whatever seconds.
    I'd be fine with Auras as a raid wide cooldown, Aura Mastery is already that and it works completely fine. Extending that to all specs wouldn't be too bad.

    I doubt thats what players really want when they say they want Auras back though.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Seals made ret gameplay mote interesting(talking about seal twisting wod) removing holy power and everything else makes is super boring. There needs to be something tgere besides just pressing what ever is off cooldown.

    Ps: when you made it to get all 4 seals on you with a decent duration just felt rewardibg and you felt strong. Idk if we should bring this back.. this is eitger the choice to go or it will just suck.
    Again, for PvE empowered seals was considered an annoying, messy and unnecessarily overly complex talent.

    It was, for a time, the theoretically highest parsing talent, but even then no one used it because it was so convoluted. When the group of people most concerned about finding a 0.1% increase turn down a theoretically higher talent, you know something is seriously fucked up.

    There's a reason why it was the only max level talent that got removed for Legion.
    Last edited by Elkas; Yesterday at 02:57 PM.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    I recall back in vanilla being upset with Sense Undead because it didn't allow me to find forsaken players, and if we know anything about vanilla is that 90% of horde rogues were undead
    I thought the same thing about Exorcism (I started playing after Forsaken players were classified as Humanoids) even back then, but I suppose it made sense from a gameplay perspective.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimjiiim View Post
    Even if i really love the "Unpruning" thing, i never thought auras were something really exciting because their effect were not that impactul.

    I would love if every paladin got auras that you want to switch like Lucio in OW, with aura mastery being the "Boost the current one for Xs" with a short CD
    Aura for speed, aura for mastery buff, stat buffs, damage reduction, heals... stuff like that.

    The future will tell.
    aura of mercy was powerful AF as holy paladin last expac. pretty much the best CD in the game (aura mastery with certain auras). not sure what you are talking about. they may be weak NOW, but havent always been.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    I'd be fine with Auras as a raid wide cooldown, Aura Mastery is already that and it works completely fine. Extending that to all specs wouldn't be too bad.

    I doubt thats what players really want when they say they want Auras back though.
    Yea, I liked Devo Aura back in MoP. It was a great raid cooldown. Thok comes to mind immediately.xD

  11. #191
    Well that is kinda what I was trying to imply about the current model of Devotion Aura. Because it has a strong passive for Holy Paladins atm but you can turn it into a crucial CD. The idea he brought up for Ret Aura is a great idea that would fit this concept.

  12. #192
    The Lightbringer Pennem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    No, that's exactly the reverse of what's going on. YOU're the one hoping HoW becomes baseline for all specs, and you don't want to consider reason as a possibility for it not becoming baseline.

    My main has always been Paladin, I want HoW to become baseline again. But just like abilities like Summon Gargoyle WILL become Unholy only, Hammer of Wrath MIGHT. I'm not naive enough to assume the best case scenario before I have confirmation of that being the case.
    You don't sound like it. Comparing HoW to Summon Gargoyle is dumb. HoW was always introduced as a baseline ability for Paladins.

    Summon Gargoyle was introduced as a Talent tree for Unholy.

    HUGE difference, like your pics forehead. That huge.

  13. #193
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExiHext View Post
    So what do you expect? What abilities or even mechanics do you want to see returning?
    At this point, I expect Blizzard will screw paladins as they usually do in favor of resto druids.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    You don't sound like it. Comparing HoW to Summon Gargoyle is dumb. HoW was always introduced as a baseline ability for Paladins.

    Summon Gargoyle was introduced as a Talent tree for Unholy.

    HUGE difference, like your pics forehead. That huge.
    You're being naive, that's literally all this is. I've never said HoW -won't- be Paladin baseline, I'm saying it -might-. You refuting that with nothing to back it up is literally just you being naive and hopeful.

  15. #195
    The Lightbringer Pennem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    You're being naive, that's literally all this is. I've never said HoW -won't- be Paladin baseline, I'm saying it -might-. You refuting that with nothing to back it up is literally just you being naive and hopeful.
    You could say you're doing the same exact thing. Except in my case there was a whole presentation done on Class identity including those abilities. That's the difference.

    You don't have anything to back up that HoW will be spec restricted.

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