View Poll Results: What would you like seen done with Pathfinder?

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  • Remove pathfinder

    83 19.35%
  • Keep Pathfinder but remove the time-gating (available at launch)

    208 48.48%
  • Pathfinder is fine as-is

    138 32.17%
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  1. #481
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    This. After all, their decision to leave Silvermoon unfinished because time was ticking out during the making of BC has bitten them in the ass more than once already. And if that wasn't enough, they have presumably learned from the flight debacle back in WoD, when they really thought they could remove flight once and for all, and get away with it.
    Was Silvermoon a time thing? I thought (as with Stormwind) it was to save system resources back when WoW's minimum specs were much lower than now.

  2. #482
    I am Murloc! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Was Silvermoon a time thing?
    Yes, it was (afaik), since Azuremyst/Bloodmyst are actually ready for flight, and it's turned off just for the sake of parity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danuser
    we created a story structure for Sylvanas that, on the surface, echoed many broad strokes of the road Garrosh took (...). These parallels were intentional. But it's within the nuance that we sought to show the story grow and change.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    BFA was about as nuanced as a golf club to the testicles/ovaries.

  3. #483
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    BC servers, WotLK servers. They are pretty much good till MoP. That's like 6-8...10? more years to surf on the back of old expansions.
    Sadly that's probably the case. Maybe it will give them time to hire new leadership that isn't creatively bankrupt.

    I think the devs on the line and in the trenches are killing it. You can see the obvious quality of the art team and underlying foundation of the game's programming is solid, and clearly a product of hard work and dedication.

    I don't want people to misunderstand me. It's not all, or even most of Blizzard devs and employees I'm sick of. It's the people calling the shots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shnider View Post
    You say that you don't see people "because there is no content". I find that outrageous, and I dunno why you think that. when people are flying, you don't see them in the ground. > less people to encounter.

    If you can't see that then we have a problem here.

    I'm sorry man. I guess this is where our conversation should stop and agree to disagree.
    No...god dammit. That's not what I'm saying. It's not that there's no content. It's that the content that is there isn't good enough or deep enough to keep people in the open world. Even if flying didn't exist, players would just do their daily WQs in 10-30 seconds, then leave. You STILL wouldn't see people in the open world.

    So yeah, we're clearly disagreeing. And it's because you're not thinking. All you're seeing is what's directly in front of you instead of considering the actual source of the problem.

  4. #484
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    An lets start the same discussion for the one millionth time. They won't change it. Get over it.
    They brought back classic after 10 years of people asking for it. They also changed flying in the first place because people asked for it. The same may be possible to bring about a change to the current policy regarding flying mounts.

  5. #485
    Quote Originally Posted by Frosteye View Post
    Looks like I won't be preordering.

    I'm sick of this garbage. Literally nobody complained before WOD about flying except like 1% of World PVPers, and another 1% of avid roleplayers who claimed "Muh immersion!"

    Even Blizzard's most avid fanbase in attendance at Blizzcon was largely unimpressed by this announcement
    This game existed for a longer time WITH the Pathfinder - than without that specific requirement. Obviously given the poll results - this is the new normal and nothing that bothers people.

    But if flying makes or breaks it for you - as if the entire game was based on you flying - then you didn't like the game to start with anyway. This is a reward - a challenge you must accomplish - like or not.

    TBH - people like you should find other games instead, like FX:

    My Flying Little Pony -

    Or;

    Flight Simulator.
    Last edited by 12yoPlayedSinceClassic; 2019-11-12 at 11:35 PM.

  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by 12yoPlayedSinceClassic View Post
    This game existed for a longer time WITH the Pathfinder - than without that specific requirement. Obviously given the poll results - this is the new normal and nothing that bothers people.
    Burning Crusade release date was 2007. january. Warlords of draenor "compromise" pathfinder patch (6.2) was 2015. june. Not to forget that flying was actually enabled even later, with 6.2.2 in September. Even if you take just WoD's release, when officially the dev statement was "flying is coming, just not with launch", which was in 2014. november, your "math" is still years off.
    Last edited by Lei; 2019-11-13 at 12:45 AM.

  7. #487
    [QUOTE=SirCowdog;51867970]

    I think the devs on the line and in the trenches are killing it. You can see the obvious quality of the art team and underlying foundation of the game's programming is solid, and clearly a product of hard work and dedication...

    - - - Updated - - -

    I just wanted to separate out that part of the post because I see it a lot as a defense for the decision to change flight. I know the art and amount of effort put into developing WoW is important to some players and I'm not discounting it at all. There are many reasons why people play WoW. The thing is, the art and effort which goes into it aren't important too me. I care about systems and how they interact with other systems which is why PvP and soloing raid content is where I have the most fun. Being grounded and forced to grind out a bunch of cosmetic requirements because the devs are proud of the work isn't a persuasive argument to me.

  8. #488
    [QUOTE=WinningOne;51868538]
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post

    I think the devs on the line and in the trenches are killing it. You can see the obvious quality of the art team and underlying foundation of the game's programming is solid, and clearly a product of hard work and dedication...

    - - - Updated - - -

    I just wanted to separate out that part of the post because I see it a lot as a defense for the decision to change flight. I know the art and amount of effort put into developing WoW is important to some players and I'm not discounting it at all. There are many reasons why people play WoW. The thing is, the art and effort which goes into it aren't important too me. I care about systems and how they interact with other systems which is why PvP and soloing raid content is where I have the most fun. Being grounded and forced to grind out a bunch of cosmetic requirements because the devs are proud of the work isn't a persuasive argument to me.
    But it doesn't matter what it means to you because the devs are the one who feel that way and have made the game accordingly.

  9. #489
    Quote Originally Posted by WinningOne View Post
    Being grounded and forced to grind out a bunch of cosmetic requirements because the devs are proud of the work isn't a persuasive argument to me.
    I very much agree. I was simply drawing the distinction between the leadership and the line devs.

    Honestly, if I was on the art and world design team and saw my hard work being filled with trash-tier content and copy/paste kill-x quests, I'd be pissed!

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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    But it doesn't matter what it means to you because the devs are the one who feel that way and have made the game accordingly.
    It does matter if Blizzard wants to see subs and activity continue to decline, or actually see a resurgance.

    "You think you do but you don't." should be enough evidence of that.

    Blizzard can list all the reasons they want for why they're doing the game this way, but when you look at the response to that design in hard numbers, it's pretty obvious the no-flying philosophy isn't doing well for retail.

    If not for the release of classic, WoW would be at an alltime low. I'm not saying flight will fix everything. But the overall approach to designing the game needs to change, and I DO believe that including flight in the open world is an important part of that. Not just because I want flying, but because of what it represents.
    Last edited by SirCowdog; 2019-11-13 at 05:29 AM.

  10. #490
    [QUOTE=rrayy;51868585]
    Quote Originally Posted by WinningOne View Post
    But it doesn't matter what it means to you because the devs are the one who feel that way and have made the game accordingly.
    They may change their minds. Demographics change, staff turns over, new information becomes available, better ideas are invented. Who knows what may happen?

  11. #491
    remove pathfinder and Ion.

    - - - Updated - - -

    [QUOTE=rrayy;51868585]
    Quote Originally Posted by WinningOne View Post
    But it doesn't matter what it means to you because the devs are the one who feel that way and have made the game accordingly.
    and they can all be removed from the company, or the entire company can go bankrupt from lack of income, or even be forcibly shutdown by court demand.
    so yes, it does matter and with blizzard being brought front and center under the ire of the entire political spectrum due to the business partnership forged under the new team's leadership as their games fail left and right i'd say it won't be too long before we see Devs being laid off, leaving, or out-right being fired for gross incompetence.

  12. #492
    There are so many entitled first graders in these forums. These are the players who blizzard continue to catered to all these years at the cost of there core gamers. If Blizzard wants there integrity back they should remove the pathfinder achievement along with flying.

    There should be no more flying at all along with LFR.

    I will bet if Blizzard is reading this now they will gain more preorders and subscribers if they announce they are remove flying,lfr and bringing back BIS gear for Shadowlands.

    This is a fact. Stop catering to the small percentage because you are losing dollars in exchange for cents.

    All the players that want shortcuts is hurting the game. You should see that. Why not at least test the waters with my ideas. What do you have to lose? Or in fact imagine how much can you gain?

  13. #493
    Having flying as a reward for your time investment makes sense, I just think it's excessive for it to take almost a full year before it's accessible. Part 1 ought to release with launch and Part 2 with the X.1 patch. If more zones are added after X.1, just prevent flying in those zones until you're exalted with the local reputations, or do away with flying in those zones completely and replace it with another system of transportation like they did with Argus.

  14. #494
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Longstar View Post
    There are so many entitled first graders in these forums. These are the players who blizzard continue to catered to all these years at the cost of there core gamers. If Blizzard wants there integrity back they should remove the pathfinder achievement along with flying.

    There should be no more flying at all along with LFR.

    I will bet if Blizzard is reading this now they will gain more preorders and subscribers if they announce they are remove flying,lfr and bringing back BIS gear for Shadowlands.

    This is a fact. Stop catering to the small percentage because you are losing dollars in exchange for cents.

    All the players that want shortcuts is hurting the game. You should see that. Why not at least test the waters with my ideas. What do you have to lose? Or in fact imagine how much can you gain?
    flying isn't a fucking shortcut when they bothered to put AA turrets in the game that would bring you down.
    LFR, and all other catch-up mechanics literally remove content from player progression.

  15. #495
    [QUOTE=Malikath;51868974]remove pathfinder and Ion.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post

    and they can all be removed from the company, or the entire company can go bankrupt from lack of income, or even be forcibly shutdown by court demand.
    so yes, it does matter and with blizzard being brought front and center under the ire of the entire political spectrum due to the business partnership forged under the new team's leadership as their games fail left and right i'd say it won't be too long before we see Devs being laid off, leaving, or out-right being fired for gross incompetence.
    last year was record breaking for them, financialy speking, (and thanks to classic i assume this one will be again) so even if you seem to think so, they are not incompetent and dont give a fuck about very vocal minority on forums like this and anyway, the poll results show only 17% ppl wanting to remove it, so why exactly would they do it?

  16. #496
    Dreadlord GoKs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shnider View Post
    No need to attack me personally on a pretty cut clear issue. I and many others like to see horde on the road so we can wipe the floor with them. Flying reduce that greatly. Period.
    As does warmode.... so your point is not really valid anymore.

  17. #497
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    I think that describes most people.

    Even me, one of the most hardcore advocates of flight, would be willing to accept Pathfinder if the ridiculous time-gating was taken out of the equation. Obviously I wouldn't be 100% happy with it, but I'd be willing to tolerate it. ESPECIALLY if it came along with an inclusion of the unlock in the story or lore of the expansion. In Legion, for example, even crafting had quests associated with them. That's literally all it would take: A handful of quests at each checkpoint of the process.

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    how DARE those players not stay and fight you when they don't want to fight!

    Are you for real here? Is this REALLY the mentality of a "WPVPer"? How is flying away different from hearthing, or just rezzing and leaving?

    Everything I ever hear out of these supposed WPVP advocates always boils down to this: You guys want to be able to shit on people you're already beating, and force people who are trying to leave PVP to stay and continue getting shit on. It's the most toxic approach to "Gaming" that I've seen in awhile.

    World PVP is a joke. Not because of flying, but because of the approach of players like this, and Blizzard's almost complete abandonment and mishandling of it. But instead of directing your energy into making suggestions for how to make it better, or being angry at Blizzard, you blame FLYING....of all things. It's so misguided and ignorant and hateful.
    that is the dumbest rant I've read in a while, maybe you should think things through before you projectile vomit random words out onto your screen.

    Just because you can't comprehend something doesn't mean you get to just makke shit up.

    A part of Wpvp is to be prepared, if you are the one getting caught out you are very likely to lose a matchup that you would normally never lose in for example a duel. Classic wow is the perfect example right now, if I run around on my warlock in full PvE gear, i dont have a demon out cuz im just running to hand in a quest, I dont have a Health stone ready either, no Soul stone, no Demon armor, then A warrior can literally charge me, and kill me in the charge stun, a match up i would never lose if i was prepared, not even against the best warrior in the world. if i always had an easy get away then i dont ever need to be prepared, Even if i was travelling on the ground, i could just CC the Warrior, run away, leave combat, and in 1.5 seconds I could be safe either through flying, teleporting or w/e else you can think of, its absolutely dumb, and it means I won't be punished for my own mistakes.

    Now obviously with flying that encounter between 2 avid PVP'ers but where 1 is unprepared would never happen. neither would an encounter between 2 fully prepared PVP'ers. so while u manage to avoid the scenario of a PVP'er shitting on some glue sniffing back peddling clickers like yourself, you also remove the possibility of PVP'ers fighting other PVP'ers completely. It isn't exactly rocket science, and honestly trying to dehumanize people who like Wpvp with strawman arguments, lies and deception, or just pure unadulterated incompetence is the most Toxic approach to gaming I've ever witnessed. Your defense of flying is completely misguided and I'll spare you another rant, but it all boils down to if you like Flying, then you don't like WoW, it servers no purpose other than removing parts of the game for the player. so anyone who is an advocate for Flying in Wow, should honestly just quit, they won't be missed anyways.

  18. #498
    Quote Originally Posted by Soisoisoi View Post
    That's unfortunate. I'd much rather flying not exist at all so the game doesn't get ruined a few patches down the line for the sake of the 1% of the playerbase (look, I can pull numbers out my ass too!) who just want to fly and avoid conflict because they're bad or want to do world quests for that upgrade they desperately need to compete in LFR.

    Also, yes, people did complain about flying prior to WoD. Maybe you just didn't play the game?

    Though considering you won't preorder (you will, we know you will), that means it's more and more likely for them to not have flying in future expansions!


    Now for the less sarcastic response: instead of complaining, push for the best of both worlds: DO NOT ALLOW FLYING IN WAR MODE. Simple fix, been saying it since Warmode was announced. Awesome, I know.

    You want flying, I want to play the game and be able to WPvP properly; you won't be in Warmode, I will. Seriously just spam blizzard with no flying in Warmode and I won't give a shit if flying is implemented at the start of the expansion because it won't effect me.
    While I do think its a good solution, I would like to leave this prediction here, just so I can bolster my e-peen if it's ever implemented. That is, as long as mmo-c does not fuck up my account again and all the posts won't go bye-bye.

    If there is ever no flying in warmode, but it is available at launch here is what will happen:

    • Same thing happens as is did at launch of BFA, i.e. day one most people are in warmode, there is almost no wPvP, nobody really joins in, everyone is just trying to hit max level ASAP, day two and three stragglers are still leveling, rest are doing PvP quests. By around day four it mostly stabilizes to the current state of mostly no ganking outside of first and last day of the week.
    • If flying is time gated (rep or similar system), the "status quo" remains as is until people start unlocking it. Otherwise skip this point.
    • There are less and less players using war mode, the percentage of gankers increases. Because there are less people, corpse camping and party/raid stomping becomes more and more prevalent, driving more people away.
    • A few months in (after people start unlocking flying), warmode is rather desolate, blizzard hits it with heavy-handed buffs, giving out something crazy like top tier loot and huge rep/currency bonuses.
    • Warmode becomes a group activity that most players do for the weekly gear and stay out of rest of the time.
    • "PvPers" are flooding forums and social media with complains.
    • The change is most likely reverted next expansion.

  19. #499
    Quote Originally Posted by Tumile View Post
    that is the dumbest rant I've read in a while, maybe you should think things through before you projectile vomit random words out onto your screen.

    Just because you can't comprehend something doesn't mean you get to just makke shit up.

    A part of Wpvp is to be prepared, if you are the one getting caught out you are very likely to lose a matchup that you would normally never lose in for example a duel. Classic wow is the perfect example right now, if I run around on my warlock in full PvE gear, i dont have a demon out cuz im just running to hand in a quest, I dont have a Health stone ready either, no Soul stone, no Demon armor, then A warrior can literally charge me, and kill me in the charge stun, a match up i would never lose if i was prepared, not even against the best warrior in the world. if i always had an easy get away then i dont ever need to be prepared, Even if i was travelling on the ground, i could just CC the Warrior, run away, leave combat, and in 1.5 seconds I could be safe either through flying, teleporting or w/e else you can think of, its absolutely dumb, and it means I won't be punished for my own mistakes.
    It's funny how you neglect to mention that a player who attempts to gank like that, but isn't himself prepared for the inevitable CC, is being punished for his mistake. Especially in retail wow, where if said player attempts to mount up and fly away, you can bomb them with the net.


    The only difference here is that you, and people like you, seem to think that flying is to blame. When in truth it's your own lack of ability to adapt to a different dynamic of world PVP. You don't like that flying exists in the dynamic, so rather than adapt, you attempt to demonize the thing that you don't like.



    Quote Originally Posted by Tumile View Post
    Now obviously with flying that encounter between 2 avid PVP'ers but where 1 is unprepared would never happen. neither would an encounter between 2 fully prepared PVP'ers. so while u manage to avoid the scenario of a PVP'er shitting on some glue sniffing back peddling clickers like yourself,
    I stopped reading here. Again, someone or something you don't like gets demonized. It's blatantly obvious where your opinion stems from; and it's not a place of logic of objectivity. Good day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shnider View Post
    Dont mind sircowdog, he seems to think that lack of content is the reason world pvp is dead. ( even though it was alive and well until flying was unlocked in bfa). He just refuse to admit that and keeps dodging.
    Failing to understand the argument I made isn't the same thing as me "dodging". I'm sorry you can't perceive anything that isn't directly effecting you, or understand concepts beyond what you immediately see. But that doesn't make me wrong. You're seeing two things: Flying and a lack of PVP targets. You make the assumption that the two are connected. But when someone comes along and provides an alternative explanation for why one is not directly causing the other, rather than consider carefully what's being explained, you get mad that someone doesn't share your view.

    To the both of you: If you so badly want world PVP without flying, then Phase 2 of Classic is about to begin. Go there. Enjoy yourselves.
    Last edited by SirCowdog; 2019-11-13 at 11:58 AM.

  20. #500
    Dreadlord GoKs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shnider View Post
    The heck are you talking about? I was referring to how flying lead to less interaction in general between factions.

    Flying is the major reason for killing wpvp.

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    Dont mind sircowdog, he seems to think that lack of content is the reason world pvp is dead. ( even though it was alive and well until flying was unlocked in bfa). He just refuse to admit that and keeps dodging.
    You kidding right?

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