Pathfinder returns for Shadowlands

[WinningOne]

[QUOTE=rrayy;51868585]

But it doesn't matter what it means to you because the devs are the one who feel that way and have made the game accordingly.

They may change their minds. Demographics change, staff turns over, new information becomes available, better ideas are invented. Who knows what may happen?

[Malikath]

remove pathfinder and Ion.

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[QUOTE=rrayy;51868585]

But it doesn't matter what it means to you because the devs are the one who feel that way and have made the game accordingly.

and they can all be removed from the company, or the entire company can go bankrupt from lack of income, or even be forcibly shutdown by court demand.
so yes, it does matter and with blizzard being brought front and center under the ire of the entire political spectrum due to the business partnership forged under the new team's leadership as their games fail left and right i'd say it won't be too long before we see Devs being laid off, leaving, or out-right being fired for gross incompetence.

[Captain Longstar]

There are so many entitled first graders in these forums. These are the players who blizzard continue to catered to all these years at the cost of there core gamers. If Blizzard wants there integrity back they should remove the pathfinder achievement along with flying.

There should be no more flying at all along with LFR.

I will bet if Blizzard is reading this now they will gain more preorders and subscribers if they announce they are remove flying,lfr and bringing back BIS gear for Shadowlands.

This is a fact. Stop catering to the small percentage because you are losing dollars in exchange for cents.

All the players that want shortcuts is hurting the game. You should see that. Why not at least test the waters with my ideas. What do you have to lose? Or in fact imagine how much can you gain?

[Alteiry]

Having flying as a reward for your time investment makes sense, I just think it's excessive for it to take almost a full year before it's accessible. Part 1 ought to release with launch and Part 2 with the X.1 patch. If more zones are added after X.1, just prevent flying in those zones until you're exalted with the local reputations, or do away with flying in those zones completely and replace it with another system of transportation like they did with Argus.

[Malikath]

There are so many entitled first graders in these forums. These are the players who blizzard continue to catered to all these years at the cost of there core gamers. If Blizzard wants there integrity back they should remove the pathfinder achievement along with flying.

There should be no more flying at all along with LFR.

I will bet if Blizzard is reading this now they will gain more preorders and subscribers if they announce they are remove flying,lfr and bringing back BIS gear for Shadowlands.

This is a fact. Stop catering to the small percentage because you are losing dollars in exchange for cents.

All the players that want shortcuts is hurting the game. You should see that. Why not at least test the waters with my ideas. What do you have to lose? Or in fact imagine how much can you gain?

flying isn't a fucking shortcut when they bothered to put AA turrets in the game that would bring you down.
LFR, and all other catch-up mechanics literally remove content from player progression.

[Lolites]

[QUOTE=Malikath;51868974]remove pathfinder and Ion.

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and they can all be removed from the company, or the entire company can go bankrupt from lack of income, or even be forcibly shutdown by court demand.
so yes, it does matter and with blizzard being brought front and center under the ire of the entire political spectrum due to the business partnership forged under the new team's leadership as their games fail left and right i'd say it won't be too long before we see Devs being laid off, leaving, or out-right being fired for gross incompetence.

last year was record breaking for them, financialy speking, (and thanks to classic i assume this one will be again) so even if you seem to think so, they are not incompetent and dont give a fuck about very vocal minority on forums like this and anyway, the poll results show only 17% ppl wanting to remove it, so why exactly would they do it?

[GoKs]

No need to attack me personally on a pretty cut clear issue. I and many others like to see horde on the road so we can wipe the floor with them. Flying reduce that greatly. Period.

As does warmode.... so your point is not really valid anymore.

[Tumile]

I think that describes most people.

Even me, one of the most hardcore advocates of flight, would be willing to accept Pathfinder if the ridiculous time-gating was taken out of the equation. Obviously I wouldn't be 100% happy with it, but I'd be willing to tolerate it. ESPECIALLY if it came along with an inclusion of the unlock in the story or lore of the expansion. In Legion, for example, even crafting had quests associated with them. That's literally all it would take: A handful of quests at each checkpoint of the process.

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how DARE those players not stay and fight you when they don't want to fight!

Are you for real here? Is this REALLY the mentality of a "WPVPer"? How is flying away different from hearthing, or just rezzing and leaving?

Everything I ever hear out of these supposed WPVP advocates always boils down to this: You guys want to be able to shit on people you're already beating, and force people who are trying to leave PVP to stay and continue getting shit on. It's the most toxic approach to "Gaming" that I've seen in awhile.

World PVP is a joke. Not because of flying, but because of the approach of players like this, and Blizzard's almost complete abandonment and mishandling of it. But instead of directing your energy into making suggestions for how to make it better, or being angry at Blizzard, you blame FLYING....of all things. It's so misguided and ignorant and hateful.

that is the dumbest rant I've read in a while, maybe you should think things through before you projectile vomit random words out onto your screen.

Just because you can't comprehend something doesn't mean you get to just makke shit up.

A part of Wpvp is to be prepared, if you are the one getting caught out you are very likely to lose a matchup that you would normally never lose in for example a duel. Classic wow is the perfect example right now, if I run around on my warlock in full PvE gear, i dont have a demon out cuz im just running to hand in a quest, I dont have a Health stone ready either, no Soul stone, no Demon armor, then A warrior can literally charge me, and kill me in the charge stun, a match up i would never lose if i was prepared, not even against the best warrior in the world. if i always had an easy get away then i dont ever need to be prepared, Even if i was travelling on the ground, i could just CC the Warrior, run away, leave combat, and in 1.5 seconds I could be safe either through flying, teleporting or w/e else you can think of, its absolutely dumb, and it means I won't be punished for my own mistakes.

Now obviously with flying that encounter between 2 avid PVP'ers but where 1 is unprepared would never happen. neither would an encounter between 2 fully prepared PVP'ers. so while u manage to avoid the scenario of a PVP'er shitting on some glue sniffing back peddling clickers like yourself, you also remove the possibility of PVP'ers fighting other PVP'ers completely. It isn't exactly rocket science, and honestly trying to dehumanize people who like Wpvp with strawman arguments, lies and deception, or just pure unadulterated incompetence is the most Toxic approach to gaming I've ever witnessed. Your defense of flying is completely misguided and I'll spare you another rant, but it all boils down to if you like Flying, then you don't like WoW, it servers no purpose other than removing parts of the game for the player. so anyone who is an advocate for Flying in Wow, should honestly just quit, they won't be missed anyways.

[Echeyakee]

That's unfortunate. I'd much rather flying not exist at all so the game doesn't get ruined a few patches down the line for the sake of the 1% of the playerbase (look, I can pull numbers out my ass too!) who just want to fly and avoid conflict because they're bad or want to do world quests for that upgrade they desperately need to compete in LFR.

Also, yes, people did complain about flying prior to WoD. Maybe you just didn't play the game?

Though considering you won't preorder (you will, we know you will), that means it's more and more likely for them to not have flying in future expansions!


Now for the less sarcastic response: instead of complaining, push for the best of both worlds: DO NOT ALLOW FLYING IN WAR MODE. Simple fix, been saying it since Warmode was announced. Awesome, I know.

You want flying, I want to play the game and be able to WPvP properly; you won't be in Warmode, I will. Seriously just spam blizzard with no flying in Warmode and I won't give a shit if flying is implemented at the start of the expansion because it won't effect me.

While I do think its a good solution, I would like to leave this prediction here, just so I can bolster my e-peen if it's ever implemented. That is, as long as mmo-c does not fuck up my account again and all the posts won't go bye-bye.

If there is ever no flying in warmode, but it is available at launch here is what will happen:

• Same thing happens as is did at launch of BFA, i.e. day one most people are in warmode, there is almost no wPvP, nobody really joins in, everyone is just trying to hit max level ASAP, day two and three stragglers are still leveling, rest are doing PvP quests. By around day four it mostly stabilizes to the current state of mostly no ganking outside of first and last day of the week.
• If flying is time gated (rep or similar system), the "status quo" remains as is until people start unlocking it. Otherwise skip this point.
• There are less and less players using war mode, the percentage of gankers increases. Because there are less people, corpse camping and party/raid stomping becomes more and more prevalent, driving more people away.
• A few months in (after people start unlocking flying), warmode is rather desolate, blizzard hits it with heavy-handed buffs, giving out something crazy like top tier loot and huge rep/currency bonuses.
• Warmode becomes a group activity that most players do for the weekly gear and stay out of rest of the time.
• "PvPers" are flooding forums and social media with complains.
• The change is most likely reverted next expansion.

[SirCowdog]

that is the dumbest rant I've read in a while, maybe you should think things through before you projectile vomit random words out onto your screen.

Just because you can't comprehend something doesn't mean you get to just makke shit up.

A part of Wpvp is to be prepared, if you are the one getting caught out you are very likely to lose a matchup that you would normally never lose in for example a duel. Classic wow is the perfect example right now, if I run around on my warlock in full PvE gear, i dont have a demon out cuz im just running to hand in a quest, I dont have a Health stone ready either, no Soul stone, no Demon armor, then A warrior can literally charge me, and kill me in the charge stun, a match up i would never lose if i was prepared, not even against the best warrior in the world. if i always had an easy get away then i dont ever need to be prepared, Even if i was travelling on the ground, i could just CC the Warrior, run away, leave combat, and in 1.5 seconds I could be safe either through flying, teleporting or w/e else you can think of, its absolutely dumb, and it means I won't be punished for my own mistakes.

It's funny how you neglect to mention that a player who attempts to gank like that, but isn't himself prepared for the inevitable CC, is being punished for his mistake. Especially in retail wow, where if said player attempts to mount up and fly away, you can bomb them with the net.


The only difference here is that you, and people like you, seem to think that flying is to blame. When in truth it's your own lack of ability to adapt to a different dynamic of world PVP. You don't like that flying exists in the dynamic, so rather than adapt, you attempt to demonize the thing that you don't like.

Now obviously with flying that encounter between 2 avid PVP'ers but where 1 is unprepared would never happen. neither would an encounter between 2 fully prepared PVP'ers. so while u manage to avoid the scenario of a PVP'er shitting on some glue sniffing back peddling clickers like yourself,

I stopped reading here. Again, someone or something you don't like gets demonized. It's blatantly obvious where your opinion stems from; and it's not a place of logic of objectivity. Good day.

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Dont mind sircowdog, he seems to think that lack of content is the reason world pvp is dead. ( even though it was alive and well until flying was unlocked in bfa). He just refuse to admit that and keeps dodging.

Failing to understand the argument I made isn't the same thing as me "dodging". I'm sorry you can't perceive anything that isn't directly effecting you, or understand concepts beyond what you immediately see. But that doesn't make me wrong. You're seeing two things: Flying and a lack of PVP targets. You make the assumption that the two are connected. But when someone comes along and provides an alternative explanation for why one is not directly causing the other, rather than consider carefully what's being explained, you get mad that someone doesn't share your view.

To the both of you: If you so badly want world PVP without flying, then Phase 2 of Classic is about to begin. Go there. Enjoy yourselves.

[GoKs]

The heck are you talking about? I was referring to how flying lead to less interaction in general between factions.

Flying is the major reason for killing wpvp.

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Dont mind sircowdog, he seems to think that lack of content is the reason world pvp is dead. ( even though it was alive and well until flying was unlocked in bfa). He just refuse to admit that and keeps dodging.

You kidding right?

[Mardux]

Your argument is that you are trying to incorporate other factors into why you don’t meet horde in wpvp.

You first said that flying has no affect on this which made me consider the newspaper you wrote a pile of garbage. Thank god we at least get to enjoy the first half of the expansion at least before flying ruins the experience completely.

I highly suggest that you turn on warmode next expansion and see how people actually play instead of passing judgment on how people play the game. You Either don’t know what you’re talking about or you are dodging.

Playing safely with WM turned off doesn’t give you the right to speak on wpvp.

There is a lot of it at the start of BFA, and it got killed with flying. Not because of “lack of content”

And classic doesn’t work because it’s a shit game.

It was dead before pathfinder 2 was released, aside from the sporadic instances of groups camping flight points and quest hubs to grief other players. Yeah, there was more at release, but there were also more players. Eventually those players stopped playing or turned wm off because the 10% exp/ap/gold isnt worth being corpse camped by 10-15 trolls (not referring to the playable race).

[SirCowdog]

No need to attack me personally on a pretty cut clear issue. I and many others like to see horde on the road so we can wipe the floor with them. Flying reduce that greatly. Period.

So this boils down to you not getting what you want in a very specific context. How is that the fault of flying? You just want to attack players under conditions you dictate instead of having to adapt your tactics to the reality of the actual open world dynamic.

Thank you for your honesty, at least. And thank you for revealing that your problem is not with flying, but with being bad at PVP.

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Your argument is that you are trying to incorporate other factors into why you don’t meet horde in wpvp.

You first said that flying has no affect on this which made me consider the newspaper you wrote a pile of garbage. Thank god we at least get to enjoy the first half of the expansion at least before flying ruins the experience completely.

I highly suggest that you turn on warmode next expansion and see how people actually play instead of passing judgment on how people play the game. You Either don’t know what you’re talking about or you are dodging.

Playing safely with WM turned off doesn’t give you the right to speak on wpvp.

There is a lot of it at the start of BFA, and it got killed with flying. Not because of “lack of content”

And classic doesn’t work because it’s a shit game.

Oh FFS..... You can't possibly be this dense.

Do you know why there are a lot of people in war mode early on in an expansion? MAYBE because all the content is fresh, and there are still people interested in actively consuming it, as well as garnering that much needed WM bonus.

Instead of how it is later in the expansion when there are less people doing the content......wait for it......

....BECAUSE THEY ALREADY DID IT AND MOVED ON TO OTHER THINGS!.


/facepalm

Can you PLEASE think about this for more than two seconds? If a person is already exalted with the reps they need, has completed all the quests, and finished all the achievements...why would they still be mucking around in War Mode in an area that has nothing of value for them?

The only people who are going to be there are those who are specifically there to fight. And that number of people is nowhere near the same as when everyone is rushing to complete objectives when the content is still new.

If you STILL don't understand this very basic concept, then I don't know what to tell you.

[Seradi]

Pathfinder is fine as is. Doesn’t even need to be unlocked in the first patch. As it stands we end up being able to fly for a longer time during an expansion than not. Time wise it’s balanced well enough. Flying is not and never will be an integral part of the game and gameplay, it’s just a convenience.

Instead of complaining about pathfinder what I’d like to see is a push for the flight whistle to be made account wide and usable everywhere.

[rrayy]

Pathfinder is fine as is. Doesn’t even need to be unlocked in the first patch. As it stands we end up being able to fly for a longer time during an expansion than not. Time wise it’s balanced well enough. Flying is not and never will be an integral part of the game and gameplay, it’s just a convenience.

Instead of complaining about pathfinder what I’d like to see is a push for the flight whistle to be made account wide and usable everywhere.

I can get behind the flight master whistle idea.

[kamuimac]

They said 1,000 times that they like the Pathfinder system and that they're not going to change it. Stop making threads about it.

what a shame that playerbase dont like it..

but since devs design game for themselves not for playerbase who cares eh ?

[SirCowdog]

Once again, you make baseless assumptions.


Just because you don’t wpvp, doesn’t mean everyone is. Everyone plays MMOs for different reasons.

It’s you who are dodging the main issue. Flying is a major reason for death of wpvp. Wpvp is one of the few things that allows me to enjoy the game. If you don’t like getting ganked unfairly, dont turn wm off.

Detailing a logical explanation for why there are obviously more people engaging in content when it's new, as opposed to less people engaging when it's old and had all its value replayed to death, is very specifically NOT a "baseless assumption".

And what's more ridiculous about making that claim against me(despite the fact that I broke down my reasoning) is that you go on to make your own statement without ANY explanation, facts, reasoning, or details. Followed up immediately by an assumption about whether or not I engage in WPVP or not.

Do you see the irony here?

For the record, before Wow I spent a few years playing games like DAoC and UO. After that, I spent the first 5 years of WoW on a PVP server. You know...that glorious golden age of vanilla where flying didn't yet exist? Followed by 5 years of EVE online, which makes WoW's open world PVP look like something a monkey with head trauma smeared on a wall.

So don't talk down to me about how I don't WPVP. My opinion of WPVP is based on over a decade of experience, with the latter half in a game that makes me fully understand just how insanely bad WoW's attempt at it is.

Second, if you want to claim that Flying was the "death of WPVP", you're going to need to provide some details. Because it seems glaringly obvious that battlegrounds and arena did the lion's share of that by not only providing a more fair place to fight, but also better rewards and guaranteed access to both. Follow that up with cross-realm tech which obliterated faction and realm identity and reputation. Then Blizzard's repeated failure to add anything of worth or interest for WPVP objectives, largely due to their attempted focus on E-Sports for Arena and RBGS.

Whatever damage you THINK flight did to WPVP is because you're refusing to look at any other factor. And even if we acknowledge that flying changed the dymanic of WPVP in a way which you personally dislike, Blizzard has provided you with exactly the thing you most desire: Classic.

So please, take your unreasoning hatred and scapegoating of a situation you clearly don't comprehend, and either take the time to educate yourself fully or go to classic where you can get everything you want.

[SirCowdog]

You can’t possibly expect me to read this pile of nonsense.

And i never claimed it was the death of wpvp. I said it is the major reason.

Other than admitting that flying put less people on the ground. You keep puking this nonsense that i stopped reading 2 posts ago.

So you'd rather take your ball and go home angry than change your opinion based on real arguments? Do you realize the type of person this makes you out to be? Fine then. I guess I'll take that as you admitting defeat since your ad hominem fell apart, and you never actually provided ANY details for your point of view other than "Flying bad!"

[Frosteye]

"won't be pre-ordering"? That is a bit weak ass....how about "I will quit". What does pre-ordering has to do with it being in the final game...that you then buy on release?

Look, there are IMHO two options here:

-They are happy how it works, how it keeps ppl logging in and doing it (not that it is a huge effort...it seriously isn't)
-They are bleeding subs because of it, people bombard them with pleas to stop it and they don't care because they love to lose money and piss ppl off.

I let YOU decide

I would buy Shadowlands and try it out if they said they were removing the time-gating of flying (available at launch). Is it my idea of perfect? No - but it would be a start in the right direction.

Part 1:
- Max level
- Loremaster
- Exploration
- Drop the rep requirement

Part 2 - removed

ez way to make the playerbase happy

[SirCowdog]

"won't be pre-ordering"? That is a bit weak ass....how about "I will quit". What does pre-ordering has to do with it being in the final game...that you then buy on release?

Look, there are IMHO two options here:

-They are happy how it works, how it keeps ppl logging in and doing it (not that it is a huge effort...it seriously isn't)
-They are bleeding subs because of it, people bombard them with pleas to stop it and they don't care because they love to lose money and piss ppl off.

I let YOU decide

Probably more accurate to say they're making enough money from the cash shop, character xfers, race changes to allied races, and wow token to compensate for the drop in subs.