Pathfinder returns for Shadowlands

[Naoto]

Just remove Pathfinder already.


And remove flying as well.

They should remove mounts period so we run around everywhere, that way the content lasts even longer and we don't rush anything as it will take us half the day to finish our dailies.

[Baneto]

I really hope they do pathfinder different than how they did for BFA.

Nobody I know found it fun to not be able to get it after reaching max level, having to wait through a rep/time-gated slow system,

[gamz247]

They should remove mounts period so we run around everywhere, that way the content lasts even longer and we don't rush anything as it will take us half the day to finish our dailies.

Also, no speed increasing class abilities like Ghost Wolf or Sprint, and slow walk is the default with no way to run. Immerse thyself!

[Scrod]

Literally right here.

I'm not going to re-iterate the past two pages of this conversation to you just because you refuse to recall it - But to sum it up, this conversation started with us talking about how Blizzard wants people to do current content before they unlock flight. Because they didn't go through all the trouble of building the content for you to skip it. That's a reasonable point to be made. Why would they go through all the effort of making content, only to allow everyone to skip right over it and not experience it anywhere near how it was meant to be experienced?

Then you argued about how it's not current. Hence how we got to this fucking point. It is current, and that's why we had this fucking conversation. Blizzard, reasonably, expects you to do current content before unlocking flight.

But you don't want to hear that - You just want to hear people tell you that you have a good idea, even if it isn't, due to the statement above. You directly admit that with the statement above. You just want to hear from people with the wrong idea of what current content is.

My argument:

They call it current because it came out with the current expansion, but it's quickly out of date because players outgear it within days, and world content inherently has limited replayability because most of the value comes from exploration (which is done during leveling).

When you ask why they would allow people to skip it, my opinion is simple: it's bad. It's not fun, it's not interesting. Leveling has some value - you get to see the layout of the land and explore, and also you get to wander around and stumble into quests, you progress through a zone. World quests, however are like having you go back and read 5 random distinct and unrelated pages of a book you've already read.

Yes, some people like it, and that's fine, let them go farm reps to their heart's content, give them rewards, whatever. But the issue is that they want everyone to do it, even people like me who would pay money to avoid it.

We got lost because I said I define current content differently and you couldn't get that out of your head and acted like there's some sort of gold plated dictionary with a definition that cannot be contradicted. I can have my own opinion on what is current, and just because it's part of the current expansion doesn't mean it's still relevant to my character in my opinion.

[chiddie]

This 100%. Was cool in WoD, passable in Legion (Suramar was good), awful in BFA (Nazjatar *shudders*), and is looking even worse in Shadowlands. The Maw is going to burn out so many players going for pathfinder its not even funny.

I hated far more Mechagon than Nazjatar.

[Scrod]

They should remove mounts period so we run around everywhere, that way the content lasts even longer and we don't rush anything as it will take us half the day to finish our dailies.

Have you felt that, gradually, they've made dailies more annoying? Maybe it's just me, but I feel like over time they keep adding features that make them take longer for no reason. Some examples are:

1. Mob that spawns every x seconds... meaning you have to stand there and wait.
2. Mob in a cave/on a hill that's hard to find. Sigh... open wowhead and look up the coordinates.
3. Mini/Facebook games.

These are all put in place because they know that, for a large majority of characters, the actual act of killing the mob you're supposed to kill will take seconds and requires no attention whatsoever. So their solution has been to just... add in a bunch of extra crap to make it more annoying?

- - - Updated - - -

I hated far more Mechagon than Nazjatar.

I hated them both. Mechagon felt really dumb... the idea was supposed to be that you were gradually building up the resistance (I think, I don't pay too much attention) but that idea didn't seem to stick that well when my character was running around killing the enemy with impunity. It's hard to feel like you're a rebel fighting long odds when you smash everything in sight constantly. I remember being like, hey, dude, can you just let me go and win your rebellion for you? I'll kill everything here... that should get me exalted, right?

Here was my feeling of Nazjatar... hmm, how do I get to that dot... nope it's up there, maybe this path, nope over there, nope over there, ok I give up let me check wowhead... /way x, y... then 2 seconds after I arrived, the quest is done.

The epitome of Nazjatar was that quest where you had to swim in the tunnel under the pool to get to the guy. I don't know how the hell they expected us to figure that out without searching for 45 minutes. Such a waste.

[Fleugen]

My argument:

They call it current because it came out with the current expansion, but it's quickly out of date because players outgear it within days, and world content inherently has limited replayability because most of the value comes from exploration (which is done during leveling).

Which doesn't make it not current.

When you ask why they would allow people to skip it, my opinion is simple: it's bad. It's not fun, it's not interesting. Leveling has some value - you get to see the layout of the land and explore, and also you get to wander around and stumble into quests, you progress through a zone. World quests, however are like having you go back and read 5 random distinct and unrelated pages of a book you've already read.

Which isn't solved by flying. If you don't like the game, the easy solution is don't fucking play it. Demanding they allow you to skip the game because you don't like it is a nonsense argument.

Yes, some people like it, and that's fine, let them go farm reps to their heart's content, give them rewards, whatever. But the issue is that they want everyone to do it, even people like me who would pay money to avoid it.

Yes, little did we know, game designers want people to play their game, not skip it.

This is no different than arguing the makers of Bloodborne didn't give you a way to skip the bosses because they're hard. Of course they didn't, the point of Bloodborne is to have challenging bosses, giving you a way to skip it would defeat the fucking purpose of the game. Yes, even if you decided they weren't fun or interesting, it would still defeat the purpose.

We got lost because I said I define current content differently and you couldn't get that out of your head and acted like there's some sort of gold plated dictionary with a definition that cannot be contradicted. I can have my own opinion on what is current, and just because it's part of the current expansion doesn't mean it's still relevant to my character in my opinion.

We didn't get lost. There was no point that we were lost. YOU may have gotten lost at some point, but we've been on the exact same point for the past several pages, and that's really sad if you did in fact get lost.

Your points are just straight nonsense.

[Overlord Anrakyr]

I really don't care if we have flying or not.

I mean sure, I'd like to fly instead of crawling everywhere, but not enough to cause drama over it.

[chiddie]

I really hope they do pathfinder different than how they did for BFA.

Nobody I know found it fun to not be able to get it after reaching max level, having to wait through a rep/time-gated slow system,

In fact, pathfinder idea is good.

Implementation is, as usual, bad. Especially the rep part. Not because of rep itself but because there’s no way to get to revered with only questing or amazing chains like Suramar (that did not get to revered anyways, sadly), but it’s all about dailies and emissaries. Some factions have also to be carried from neutral to revered with dailies or emissaries only.

I am not totally against time gating, but the rep part has to go away or they have to make players reach the required status in other ways than dailies and emissaries.

Also, on a side note, when you reach revered or exalted the gear you can buy has totally outdated stats and since reps are char bound you can’t even buy them with alts to ease the leveling process or immediately get a decent ilvl after having reached max level.

[Pro-Violence]

That's great. It's one of the main things I enjoy about the latest few expansions. Gives me something to do and makes me feel good being rewarded for it.

[Scrod]

If you don't like the game, the easy solution is don't fucking play it. Yes, little did we know, game designers want people to play their game, not skip it.

To me and to many players, the world content is a very small portion of the game. The game I like is the instanced content. I'm obviously not asking to skip the entire game, just the part that I and a lot of others see as an irrelevant waste of time that gets in the way of the part we like.

[Fleugen]

To me and to many players, the world content is a very small portion of the game. The game I like is the instanced content. I'm obviously not asking to skip the entire game, just the part that I and a lot of others see as an irrelevant waste of time that gets in the way of the part we like.

And?

I never said anything about content you like. Literally nobody did. This is a point you are making out of the blue.

Game designers want you to play their game. Full stop. It does not matter what parts of the game you personally like. Especially not in an MMO, with hundreds upon thousands of players of different skill levels.

For some, the ENTIRE GAME is world content.

If they tied PvP to flight, I'd be upset too, but I'd accept it and deal with the fact that I'd never have flight because it's locked behind a part of the game I dislike.

You, on the other hand, demand they remove the requirement of flight that you don't like. Which is your problem. At that point they can't have ANY requirements for flight, because any requirement might lock any number of players out from getting flight, because any number of players might dislike the content they lock it behind.

What people "like" is not a good measure of what you can lock things behind.

[Scrod]

And?

I never said anything about content you like. Literally nobody did. This is a point you are making out of the blue.

Game designers want you to play their game. Full stop. It does not matter what parts of the game you personally like. Especially not in an MMO, with hundreds upon thousands of players of different skill levels.

Sure it does. Players like different things, and there's years long battle where Blizzard has oscillated between catering to those who like raiding but not the world (WoD, Cata) and catering to those who like world quests (Legion, MoP, BFA). This thread is about whether pathfinder should continue, because it turns out that Blizzard often changes their mind on things like this. I'm arguing that they should, because I don't like how it works. Pretty standard argument. Anyway I'm done responding to you.

Actually quick edit cause I saw you changed your post - I didn't demand anything, I expressed my opinion. I'd appreciate if you show your disagreement, or maybe spitball ideas that would make us both happy. But you just repeatedly keep twisting what I'm saying. That's why I'm done.

[Fleugen]

Sure it does. Players like different things, and there's years long battle where Blizzard has oscillated between catering to those who like raiding but not the world (WoD, Cata) and catering to those who like world quests (Legion, MoP, BFA). This thread is about whether pathfinder should continue, because it turns out that Blizzard often changes their mind on things like this. I'm arguing that they should, because I don't like how it works. Pretty standard argument. Anyway I'm done responding to you.

Actually quick edit cause I saw you changed your post - I didn't demand anything, I expressed my opinion. I'd appreciate if you show your disagreement, or maybe spitball ideas that would make us both happy. But you just repeatedly keep twisting what I'm saying. That's why I'm done.

There are no ideas which would make us both happy, because if I suggest MY idea (which I already did...), which is of a different and opposite opinion than yours (Keep Pathfinder exactly as it is), you'll argue you want it changed because you don't like it.

Which isn't a coherent point.

You ARE demanding it changed, because you wouldn't be here discussing it and asking if "everybody agrees with you" or trying to insist that some discussion on a fansite was going to suddenly change Blizzard's mind (it won't) if you didn't want it changed. Literally this is just fans talking. This sways nothing.

Hence the fucking multiple pages of me telling you so. I'm glad you're finally done responding - Because frankly, it's getting tiresome saying the same fucking thing over and over.

[Utrrabbit]

What they like and what the players like are often not the same. Perhaps a big reason why the subs have absolutely fucking plummeted is them doing what "they like" exclusively?

Except the subs for bfa is higher than its ever been in the games history. I am not talking about people playing classic. Only the subs who play bfa. So you are wrong

[MrLachyG]

I tried to find the Pathfinder Part 1 achievement in game (live) but it's not there yet

[Baneto]

In fact, pathfinder idea is good.

Implementation is, as usual, bad. Especially the rep part. Not because of rep itself but because there’s no way to get to revered with only questing or amazing chains like Suramar (that did not get to revered anyways, sadly), but it’s all about dailies and emissaries. Some factions have also to be carried from neutral to revered with dailies or emissaries only.

I am not totally against time gating, but the rep part has to go away or they have to make players reach the required status in other ways than dailies and emissaries.

Also, on a side note, when you reach revered or exalted the gear you can buy has totally outdated stats and since reps are char bound you can’t even buy them with alts to ease the leveling process or immediately get a decent ilvl after having reached max level.

Those are some good points for sure!

Personally I would like it if you were granted flying once you've completed all the quest-chains in the available zones of the expansion, even if they regretted they added flying to the game its way too late to revert it now. And thats why I believe they have come up with "Pathfinder" to slow players down instead of having us enjoy it faster.

[chiddie]

Those are some good points for sure!

Personally I would like it if you were granted flying once you've completed all the quest-chains in the available zones of the expansion, even if they regretted they added flying to the game its way too late to revert it now. And thats why I believe they have come up with "Pathfinder" to slow players down instead of having us enjoy it faster.

Time gate can have a point. I too would prefer to unlock flying by simply exploring all the zones and do all the quests chapters of the zones. But it seems it’s not possible, it would be not too easy (pf is not about difficulty), but too fast.

The thing that bugs me is that in all these years they could not come up with a different way of unlocking it rather then “rep to revered -> dailies + emissaries and gg”.

[MrLachyG]

Time gate can have a point. I too would prefer to unlock flying by simply exploring all the zones and do all the quests chapters of the zones. But it seems it’s not possible, it would be not too easy (pf is not about difficulty), but too fast.

The thing that bugs me is that in all these years they could not come up with a different way of unlocking it rather then “rep to revered -> dailies + emissaries and gg”.

yeah if they just made it 'explore + do all the quests' then players will have flying unlocked probably within an hour of hitting max level, maybe 2?

I think they should add some flavour into the pathfinder process though - like having a quest when you hit max level "why can't I fly?" and, for BfA, it has to do with strange magic around the isles of Zuldazar and KT. Follow up quest involves you bringing items from the quartermaster of each faction to *insert npc name here* and they can track it. However you need to be revered to get the item. Then in 8.2 you find out that is because of Azshara and you need to again do a couple of quests which require revered and you break her spell. In Shadowlands it can be because of the Jailer.

probably sounds stupid but would have the exact same effect as Pathfinder only would be more interesting. That being said we still don't know what the Pathfinder requirements are for SL.

[chiddie]

yeah if they just made it 'explore + do all the quests' then players will have flying unlocked probably within an hour of hitting max level, maybe 2?

I think they should add some flavour into the pathfinder process though - like having a quest when you hit max level "why can't I fly?" and, for BfA, it has to do with strange magic around the isles of Zuldazar and KT. Follow up quest involves you bringing items from the quartermaster of each faction to *insert npc name here* and they can track it. However you need to be revered to get the item. Then in 8.2 you find out that is because of Azshara and you need to again do a couple of quests which require revered and you break her spell. In Shadowlands it can be because of the Jailer.

probably sounds stupid but would have the exact same effect as Pathfinder only would be more interesting. That being said we still don't know what the Pathfinder requirements are for SL.

But if we stick again with “being revered” nothing changes, if the way I have to get to revered is always and only dailies plus emissaries.

At this point I would even prefer something like “hello, you could already fly but we’ll unlock the feature next year, kkthx bye”.

Also loreside it makes no sense. Take BfA for example: let’s assume I understand that I have to get a certain reputation with Zandalar and war offensive to fly in Zan/Kul, but why also Nazjatar and Mechagon? They popped out of nowhere, why I should care about them to fly in Zan/Kul?