Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
... LastLast
  1. #41
    Did you really just quote yourself? How obnoxious...

    It's gonna be a handful of spells that still don't do much. I wouldn't be so ecstatic... Definitely not as self-righteous as you are.

    It's a game, not the vindication of your soul...

  2. #42
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    London
    Posts
    286
    Dont know why everyone is losing their shit already, just be glad that they are potentially bringing back stuff that should not have been removed in the first place.

    Now having said that, give me back Deep Freeze and Alter Time so i can play MoP fire in pvp again!!!!

  3. #43
    I appreciate getting some spells back for traversing the world and whatnot, but it's not really going to change the rotation that much.

    Still, much obliged.
    - Dare not to sleep -

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Fixxit the Gnome View Post
    I appreciate getting some spells back for traversing the world and whatnot, but it's not really going to change the rotation that much.

    Still, much obliged.
    Yeah, it's very cool that they bring some spells back but on the other hand, the mage class has been in need for some attention for a few expansions now. I wouldn't go so far as to call for a MoP-warlock-style makeover, but there are a handful of areas that direly need improvement.

    Our talent choices, for one. There's so much dreary filler in there, barely any exciting choices, of all the classes I'm playing, it's the worst one!
    Same goes for our Pvp talents. There's only very few of them and the vast majority are utterly boring and/or weak, considering we should be masters of the arcane, they really dropped the ball on the creative application of that concept.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by scubi666stacy View Post
    If you need someone to kite a mob in a dungeon, you have been using frost bolts even in a different spec. If you need a dot on a mob or boss for whatever reason, you would use fireball. This is about utility. It's not that difficult.
    There are better slows than frostbolt, and fireball doesn’t natively leave a dot; only if you’re fire. Which completely negates what little reason for arcane or frost to have the spell.

    And second, when ever have we had to leave a dot on something to counter a mechanic?
    Last edited by Nefarious Tea; 2019-11-04 at 03:53 PM.
    Do not ask questions for which you do not want the answers.

  6. #46
    Bloodsail Admiral CrawlFromThePit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    The Depths Bellow
    Posts
    1,215
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWorkingTitle View Post
    FINALLY.

    After six years of me harping on this very simple concept that was the foundation of Mage from Classic to MoP, we're finally being restored to being Mages and not just Icecallers, Pyromaniacs, and Arcanomancers. No longer will we be one trick ponies, pigeon-holed into a specialization. We will be mages again, because we are masters of the Arcane.


    "If you change specs right now, it's almost like you change classes with how much some specs change." - Holinka

    "Classes are [supposed to be] made up of elements from each spec, then the spec doubles down on it." - Holinka

    "Mages will get Frostbolt, Fire Blast, Arcane Explosion [back]! Mages are master of elements." - Holinka

    "There are just some of the abilities returning in Shadowlands." - Holinka



    Here are some of my posts over the years:



    April, 2014: "One over-arching theme with the Mage changes is that while in any specific specialization, Mages are losing the ability to use multiple important spells while in said specialization.

    A Mage is a master of arcane magic and with such should NEVER be MORE limited in their abilities to use said spells.

    There should not be a pruning if none of these spells are mandatory to use. They are situational and give flavor and complexity to the Mage class when used correctly. Anecdotally, I have never come across someone in all my years complaining about the Mage classes bloat of ability."


    April, 2014 "When you master Arcane magic you have to ability to call upon any of the 3 schools at your disposal. Talents only enhance your ability to do so."


    April, 2014 - "Talent specialization is meant to enhance the power the Mage wields over the Arcane magic. They always could use all spells and this design shift is to completely undo that. You either want it to happen, or don't like - like me. Mages (with the WoD changes) went from being the caster with access to 3 schools of magic to having only 1.


    August, 2014 - "A Mage is a master of Arcane Magic (meaning all 3). Frost and Fire are sects of that magic and a Mage is able to utilize all 3 at the same time. A specialization means that you can do a little extra of a part of that sect of Arcane Magic. A Fire Mage isn't only supposed to be able to use Fire spells. That's not a Mage..that's something entirely different.


    November, 2016 - "This isn't a small thing at all. What you speak of is what Mages were from Classic to MoP. That is the vast majority the game's history. The entire foundation of being a "Mage" is being a master of the Arcane. Like you said, they draw from all three trees of the Arcane, and then specialize in one to be a bit better in that specific tree (while still being able to use spells from the other two trees).

    What we have had since WoD on is more akin to Pyromaniacs, Icecallers, and Arcanomancers. True Mages, true purists, those who played Mage from Classic to MoP know what a travesty this is. We aren't Mages anymore. Haven't been for years.
    "


    December, 2016 - "Roleplayers? How about Mage players from Classic-->MoP (you know, the vast majority of the game).

    I've said this so many times but I'll say it again.

    Mages are "masters of the Arcane", able to draw from all three trees in battle at the same time. They specialized in one tree to become more proficient at that type of arcane, but used the other two trees as well. That is what the entire idea of being a Mage meant.

    Now? We aren't Mages anymore (unless you want to devil's advocate that Fire can still use Frost Nova/Ring of Frost/Counterspell etc. (lol) )

    We are now Pyromaniacs, Icecallers, and Arcanomancers. This entire idea of Mages only being one sect of the Arcane is frankly misguided and ignorant. You don't know what a Mage is if you think what OP thinks.
    "



    So, I just wanted to remind everyone that doubted me and disagreed with me that I was right all along. Vindication has never felt so sweet.
    But are we gonna be able to put talent points in these specs like we should or are we stuck with the braindead no customization talent system we have now?

    They did say they want every level to be meaningful, I'm expecting an entire rework of the talent system, nothing less.
    Cure cancer, delete factions.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Alvito View Post
    Yeah hard to go all in on trust or hype when Holinka is the guy fixing things. He was so far in over his head with pvp that it is hard to trust his ideas for anything now.
    Is Holinka solely responsible for PvP balancing? There's no team or anything, just him?

  8. #48
    Back when they went for giving each spec more personality and setting apart from others the general argument from the community was: "I don't use frost spells as a fire mage anyway... Finally I can be a proper -fire- mage instead of my raid assigning me to kiting duty by throwing weak-ass frostbolts..."

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ironically this is also something Ion stated during one of the interviews at Blizzcon (about PvP abilities):
    "If abilities are so weak or so rarely used that they become pointless it is overall healthier for the game to simply remove it and to strengthen the class somewhere else instead."

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by pppbroom View Post
    Yeah but what's the point of having a frostbolt if you never use it because your rotation is all fire? I mean, yay, extra button but what's the point?
    A slow is always useful
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy
    People just want to be bullies without facing any sort of consequences or social fallout for being a bully. If you declare X as a racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. person you can say or do whatever you want to them, ignoring the fact that they are a human.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Nefarious Tea View Post
    And second, when ever have we had to leave a dot on something to counter a mechanic?
    Stone Core vs Ozruk (Cataclysm) !
    When you were stunned and could leave a DoT to be reflected on yourself to remove this stun

    I'm sure there is something else more recently but I can't put my finger on it

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by cocomen2 View Post
    Heck, then who is Elemental Shamans or Shamans as WHOLE?

    "Mages will get Frostbolt, Fire Blast, Arcane Explosion [back]! Mages are master of elements." - Holinka -> and we see them with only 2 (Fire + Water)

    Then rename them into Elementalists...... or add lightning,earth,wind skills.

    For me Mages were always "Masters of Magic, especially Arcane magic"
    THANK YOU!

    10char

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Stone Core vs Ozruk (Cataclysm) !
    When you were stunned and could leave a DoT to be reflected on yourself to remove this stun

    I'm sure there is something else more recently but I can't put my finger on it
    Oooh yeah I forgot about that because I’ve historically almost always melee
    Do not ask questions for which you do not want the answers.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by pppbroom View Post
    Maybe in PvP but in PvE it's useless.
    I actually recall quite a few fights where you can CC NPCs before they reach some spot on the floor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy
    People just want to be bullies without facing any sort of consequences or social fallout for being a bully. If you declare X as a racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. person you can say or do whatever you want to them, ignoring the fact that they are a human.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    Is Holinka solely responsible for PvP balancing? There's no team or anything, just him?
    Absolutely not, but the buck stopped with him. He was also completely clueless in most of the Q&As about balance issues. As it was once put on here, He was like a Starbucks manager just finding out his store had been out of coffee for a month. He also now isn't the only one working on adding old things back into the game. When he was so clueless and bad at his last job it is hard to have faith in any new ones.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Dispelling magic requires you to tap into enchantment school, if you'll look at PC magi abilities throughout history there is not that many of enchantment spells here (decurse and early version of water elemental comes to mind), it's quite possible that PC just doesn't know this school well enough, which could be fixed by expanding arcane spec.

    Another similar point you could make is "Were supposed to be the master of the elements but for 15 years weve been unable to raise dead"
    Uhm, Enchantment school?
    and what is PC?
    And how is dispell magic and raise undead even remotely similar in respect to being mages? Magic is out thing, we got firemagic, arcane magic, frost magic. We dont have anything close to even related to ressurecting the dead or doing anything at all with the dead.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  16. #56
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Russia, Chelyabinsk (Tankograd)
    Posts
    13,686
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    Uhm, Enchantment school?
    and what is PC?
    And how is dispell magic and raise undead even remotely similar in respect to being mages? Magic is out thing, we got firemagic, arcane magic, frost magic. We dont have anything close to even related to ressurecting the dead or doing anything at all with the dead.
    Yes.
    PC is player character

    We have arcane magic, that's it, arcane magic is divided in different schools,
    a mage cunjuring a fireball doesn't use "fire magic", he uses conjuration school of arcane magic.
    A mage creating a fire barrier out of his own mana doesn't use "fire magic", he uses abjuration school of arcane magic.
    A mage summoning a water elemental doesn't use "summoning magic" he uses conjuration school of arcane magic to make a physical form and enchanting school of arcane magic to bind it.
    A mage that turns an enemy into a sheep, doesn't use "shapeshifting magic", he uses transmutation school of arcane magic (fun fact - polymorph spell is not limited to turning opponent into a sheep, a mage can turn anything into anything, turn a squirrel into a dinosaur, or a bucket of water into a wolf - imagination and your power level is the limited, and obviously common sense, you don't want to turn less powerful and intelligent beings into more powerful and intelligent beings).

    On a topic of raise dead - Kirin Tor still considers it to be a school of arcane magic and magi have access to this knowledge, they (most of them, including PC) don't research or use it only because they are afraid of, basically, being witchhunted and consumed by this magic.

    Another fun fact - warlocks also use arcane magic, with a bit of fel and death magic, basically they are renegade magi who tap into forbidden knowledge in this regard.

    Just to reiterate on dispel magic - i think that only reason that stops PC mage from dispelling magic effects is game balance, by all reasons we should be able to do that, but if we go down this rabbit hole we also should be able to do MUCH more things that we supposed to be able to do with arcane magic. I for one would prefer having an ability to polymorph objects and NPCs into feral beasts of various powerlevels, hick, why not a dragon. It would be hilarious to revisit low level locations this way. See a poor guy ready to charge into a wolf... BAM it's level 120 dragon, good luck.
    Last edited by Charge me Doctor; 2019-11-04 at 05:39 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  17. #57
    this is good but also need cone of cold back and mirror image back as a baseline defensive

  18. #58
    I have been fighting to have this back. Sending suggestions for blizzard about this everyday. Happy they are doing it. I'm so glad

  19. #59
    Remember frostfire bolt? That was a good spell. Get rid of flurry and give us that instead.

  20. #60
    The Lightbringer gutnbrg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New Mageland
    Posts
    3,516
    Quote Originally Posted by pppbroom View Post
    Maybe in PvP but in PvE it's useless.
    yea bc we've never had to slow any mob in a raid or in the open world before...not once, not never...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by oldgeezer View Post
    Remember frostfire bolt? That was a good spell. Get rid of flurry and give us that instead.
    i would love to have frostfire bolt back, and yea we definitely need deep freeze back

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •