Page 11 of 12 FirstFirst ...
9
10
11
12
LastLast
  1. #201
    Point is, whichever way you try to cut what is and isn't evidence, all the indicators available show that there is practically zero chance that SWTOR made 125 million dollars last year. So trying to attack people that point that out (talking about the other poster above) is out of order I am afraid.

    Now before this circular, pointless discussion keeps rolling, lets wait and see what updates the game will be getting. I am willing the bet that quras is 100% correct simply because, well, of all the other major patches and "expansions" and downsizing of the last few years.

  2. #202
    Katchii: if you're a microbiologist, you're a stunningly ignorant one.

    Science, including biology, is in the middle of a reproducibility crisis. Much published research is garbage and wrong. You are drowning in imprecise and unreliable evidence.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    WoW is like 99% bear ass collection simulator -- D-Rock

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post

    Science, including biology, is in the middle of a reproducibility crisis. Much published research is garbage and wrong. You are drowning in imprecise and unreliable evidence.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/
    Off-topic (and apologies): mate, you brought back memories from years ago with that paper, kudos :-).

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Fkiolaris View Post
    Point is, whichever way you try to cut what is and isn't evidence, all the indicators available show that there is practically zero chance that SWTOR made 125 million dollars last year. So trying to attack people that point that out (talking about the other poster above) is out of order I am afraid.

    Now before this circular, pointless discussion keeps rolling, lets wait and see what updates the game will be getting. I am willing the bet that quras is 100% correct simply because, well, of all the other major patches and "expansions" and downsizing of the last few years.
    I think you got this wrong. It's those posters that attacked the guy that said that and some of us that never advocated it. They are the ones that have been out of order and shooting in every direction.
    Heck the guy you are defending is spreading false information over how scientific results are built and is considering something published as something verified and accepted by the scientific community and graduated to theory. Surely, you can see who is in the wrong here, but maybe you got a personal investment of some sort.

    Oh and btw there is no evidence in favor or against swtor making 125m last year. We don't know at all. We got literally zero data to work with to extrapolate it. You can't say it did or it didn't. You can only speculate. I would love to see these indicators of yours.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2020-03-18 at 03:55 PM.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Katchii: if you're a microbiologist, you're a stunningly ignorant one.

    Science, including biology, is in the middle of a reproducibility crisis. Much published research is garbage and wrong. You are drowning in imprecise and unreliable evidence.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/
    I really couldn't give two shits what some random internet poster thinks of me or my abilities. I know my field, you THINK you do.

    Not going to respond anymore as it's off-topic.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    SNIP...

    Oh and btw there is no evidence in favor or against swtor making 125m last year. We don't know at all. We got literally zero data to work with to extrapolate it. You can't say it did or it didn't. You can only speculate. I would love to see these indicators of yours.
    Oh there is plenty of evidence as to why swtor isn't making anywhere near 125M a year. You might not like it or even agree with it and it's circumstantial for parts of it but it's evidence none the less.

    what isn't circumstantial is Server mergers like swtor has has went through from 217 to 5 in 8 years. It didn't happening because the game is doing all that well. It's just not doing so poorly they will shut it down. I think thats going to happen when the SW contract runs out with EA.

    However ,there is plenty of things that point to this game making no where near that kind of money a year. Hell, if it made much money at all it would at least get a mention in the very area EA wants to talk about money with it's shareholders.
    Last edited by quras; 2020-03-18 at 04:40 PM.
    Current subscriber: Refer code: http://www.swtor.com/r/t4QfLH
    What you get: 7 free days of play plus a bundle of goodies: http://www.swtor.com/info/friends

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post

    Oh and btw there is no evidence in favor or against swtor making 125m last year. We don't know at all. We got literally zero data to work with to extrapolate it. You can't say it did or it didn't. You can only speculate. I would love to see these indicators of yours.
    You are just talking nonsense mate, as pointed out many times already, so I have nothing else to add. Have a nice day

    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I really couldn't give two shits what some random internet poster thinks of me or my abilities. I know my field, you THINK you do.

    Not going to respond anymore as it's off-topic.
    No offence mate, there are more than a few of us having a background in science. This is not a dick competition as far as I am concerned so apologies if you think I am trying to belittle you, I am most definitely not, but from my experience in research (15 years) a lot of the "conclusions" and "evidence" are leaps of faith in the eternal quest for the holy publications that will bring funds for the next 3 years. There are also a number of papers saying exactly that, too.

    Anyway, as you said this is off-topic so no reason to continue on this. All the best
    Last edited by Fkiolaris; 2020-03-18 at 08:57 PM.

  8. #208
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    B'ham, AL
    Posts
    374
    As someone who played SWTOR from day one of launch up until about a year ago - pretty much continuously..

    I can say without a doubt, the "numbers" have gone down hill in those years, significantly. But DO seem to be stable the last couple of years (in the state it is now). The game is kept alive by the current whales and the few subbers and players left. But even on the servers that are left, like the one I play on still (when I login on occasion now), at least SOME of the ones that are left are pretty dead.

    Not completely dead. Obviously. Or even those few would be combined to an even smaller number of servers.

    Yes, the starter worlds and Fleet are 'busy' but since those are literally the *only* place you're going to find more than one or two players at ANY given time - gosh I HOPE they look busy, or the game would been even dead-er.

    And they DO look busier than they looked 2-3 years ago, course there was at least one additional server merge since then so that could account for some of that "busy fleet" feeling.

    But anyone who thinks its 'doing as well' as it did the first year is just in denial about the state of the game.

    Play through the plotlines and you'll see why they continued to lose numbers, even through their 'expansions'. Yes, it is at least getting more development now than it has in the past - but whether or not that improves with time or continues to trek downwards, only time will tell. Once upon a time I would have thought it impossible to not make easy bank sticking with your basic 'star wars' faction story - but they managed to mess even that up.

    I too though am shocked the game still floats along and makes a profit - but we've got microtransactions to thank for that. Nothing at all to do with the game or story 'getting better' - because it for sure did not. The fact that you can complete either of their last two "expansions" in, literally, less than 5-6 hours of total playtime, should tell you where their priority goes with 'game development.' But at least they aren't charging 50 like a 'normal' expansion.

    Play and get your money's worth and have fun. But to think of the state of this game, right now, as anything more than the testament to whales and the profit of microtransactions (for every little thing ad nauseum...), is lying to yourself. Just don't give them a penny more than what you enjoy it for and move on when you're done with the alt-play plotlines. (You'll finish that before the last two expansions because after that every character has the same plotline...)
    Koriani - Guardians of Forever - BM Huntard on TB; Kharmic - Worgen Druid - TB
    Koriani - none - Dragon of Secret World
    Karmic - Moirae - SWTOR
    inactive: Frith-Rae - Horizons/Istaria; Koriani in multiple old MMOs. I been around a long time.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    Oh there is plenty of evidence as to why swtor isn't making anywhere near 125M a year. You might not like it or even agree with it and it's circumstantial for parts of it but it's evidence none the less.

    what isn't circumstantial is Server mergers like swtor has has went through from 217 to 5 in 8 years. It didn't happening because the game is doing all that well. It's just not doing so poorly they will shut it down. I think thats going to happen when the SW contract runs out with EA.

    However ,there is plenty of things that point to this game making no where near that kind of money a year. Hell, if it made much money at all it would at least get a mention in the very area EA wants to talk about money with it's shareholders.
    Yes, beatiful story. I'm still gonna need hard evidence. Because you have no data whatsoever telling you how much it's making. Just population declining. Maybe it isn't, maybe it is. I dunno, and you don't either. You are just choosing to believe it.

    Population decreased until the last server consolidation. The servers today have much higher capacity than the old ones did. There has been no further consolidation since 2 years and the servers seem healthy. So, how does that work now? We pretend it's still declining to please your narrative? Did the whales leave too? Or were you thinking only of subs? Where is this data. Heck do you even have a yearly breakdown of just one single year to know the proportions? No.
    I'm honestly tired of your bs. You claim to know something you don't know. There is nothing else to say. Enough speculation. We don't know means we don't know, not we get to slide in whatever we want in there. Reminds me of the god of the gaps fallacy.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2020-04-07 at 11:38 PM.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Fkiolaris View Post
    No offence mate, there are more than a few of us having a background in science. This is not a dick competition as far as I am concerned so apologies if you think I am trying to belittle you, I am most definitely not, but from my experience in research (15 years) a lot of the "conclusions" and "evidence" are leaps of faith in the eternal quest for the holy publications that will bring funds for the next 3 years. There are also a number of papers saying exactly that, too.

    Anyway, as you said this is off-topic so no reason to continue on this. All the best
    Last post on it for clarification. There are different areas of science, research is only one portion of a pretty huge pie, and not every scientist actually does that as part their job. I’m not necessarily refuting what’s being said about research. But that doesn’t mean every aspect of science is filled with “bullshit” (I’ll call it that just to summarize what’s already been said). If you think it’s all bullshit, you’re woefully mistaken.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Last post on it for clarification. There are different areas of science, research is only one portion of a pretty huge pie, and not every scientist actually does that as part their job. I’m not necessarily refuting what’s being said about research. But that doesn’t mean every aspect of science is filled with “bullshit” (I’ll call it that just to summarize what’s already been said). If you think it’s all bullshit, you’re woefully mistaken.
    I have not said anything like that at all, so we can agree on that. And yes, applied fields of science are much more robust in terms of what it is evidence and a conclusion or not, but most fields are more relaxed which is why you see retractions, non-reproducibility and paradigm-shifts so often. Same with other non-science fields (law etc), which was the whole point I was referring to. Based on all that, there is enough "evidence" (or indicators, if you prefer) to suggest that SWTOR absolutely did not make 125 million last year, that's it.

    Peace out mate and all the best

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Yes, beatiful story. I'm still gonna need hard evidence. Because you have no data whatsoever telling you how much it's making. Just population declining. Maybe it isn't, maybe it is. I dunno, and you don't either. You are just choosing to believe it.
    Lower server population means less players and in turn less money. The need to merge servers needed to happen long before it was done because populations had grown so low. In turn, money is also low. Money was so tight they killed off the entire west coast servers and mode those players come to east coast ones . You don't do that if money is good as it hurts some playing ability.

    Population decreased until the last server consolidation. The servers today have much higher capacity than the old ones did. There has been no further consolidation since 2 years and the servers seem healthy. So, how does that work now? We pretend it's still declining to please your narrative? Did the whales leave too? Or were you thinking only of subs? Where is this data. Heck do you even have a yearly breakdown of just one single year to know the propprtions? No.
    I'm honestly tired of your bs. You claim to know something you don't know. There is nothing else to say. Enough speculation. We don't know means we don't know, not we get to slide in whatever we want in there. Reminds me of the god of the gaps fallacy.
    No one needs bioware to tell them the numbers to know the game is in decline. You can play the game and tell that. Much more so if you have been around the game for years. swtor gets the standard population increase with the small contnt patch we get but then like all games suffers a population decline all the same but what we see in swtor is it's a bit worse because the content we get is so small. It's called a trend and it's a concept used everyday to evaluate numerous things. It's not a made up concept. You'd do well aware to take off the rose tinted goggles and understand the concept.

    You bet whales left the game. Just like it may have added in some new ones. What we do know is that it hasn't been enough to warrant swtor getting mentioned in any earning calls. Hell, leave or stay they are not enough for swtor to even get a whisper on it making money worth talking about. That is a fact and not speculation as ea skips entirely over this game in the one area where money is talked about.

    It's not even speculation to know the games population is on decline because thats how every MMO game is right now and especially so when it has so little new content. Gamers consume it and leave. swtor isn't the only game that happens to but it hits swtor pretty hard given the game hasn't been on anyone radar in a long time, produces only small patches for content and has no marketing presence. You can be willfullly ignorant of those things but it's not a good thing to do.
    Last edited by quras; 2020-03-19 at 03:29 PM.
    Current subscriber: Refer code: http://www.swtor.com/r/t4QfLH
    What you get: 7 free days of play plus a bundle of goodies: http://www.swtor.com/info/friends

  13. #213
    They need to rework all of the (however many years worth of content) to be single player capable, and then release the game as a true offline single player RPG.

    I've heard good things about all of their recent content releases, and that they encourage single player plays, but the old stuff still works the same way it did when I first played AFAIK. That is where their future lies IMO.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    They need to rework all of the (however many years worth of content) to be single player capable, and then release the game as a true offline single player RPG.

    I've heard good things about all of their recent content releases, and that they encourage single player plays, but the old stuff still works the same way it did when I first played AFAIK. That is where their future lies IMO.
    Not really sure what you're talking about.

    The only thing in the game that isn't able to be solo'd are operations. Everything else is able to be tackled by a single person since they introduced Story Mode Flashpoints for all of them and Heroic missions are a joke with how strong companion healers are.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    Lower server population means less players and in turn less money. The need to merge servers needed to happen long before it was done because populations had grown so low. In turn, money is also low. Money was so tight they killed off the entire west coast servers and mode those players come to east coast ones . You don't do that if money is good as it hurts some playing ability.



    No one needs bioware to tell them the numbers to know the game is in decline. You can play the game and tell that. Much more so if you have been around the game for years. swtor gets the standard population increase with the small contnt patch we get but then like all games suffers a population decline all the same but what we see in swtor is it's a bit worse because the content we get is so small. It's called a trend and it's a concept used everyday to evaluate numerous things. It's not a made up concept. You'd do well aware to take off the rose tinted goggles and understand the concept.

    You bet whales left the game. Just like it may have added in some new ones. What we do know is that it hasn't been enough to warrant swtor getting mentioned in any earning calls. Hell, leave or stay they are not enough for swtor to even get a whisper on it making money worth talking about. That is a fact and not speculation as ea skips entirely over this game in the one area where money is talked about.

    It's not even speculation to know the games population is on decline because thats how every MMO game is right now and especially so when it has so little new content. Gamers consume it and leave. swtor isn't the only game that happens to but it hits swtor pretty hard given the game hasn't been on anyone radar in a long time, produces only small patches for content and has no marketing presence. You can be willfullly ignorant of those things but it's not a good thing to do.
    Again, you are projecting ignorance of the situation. How do you know what is the spread of revenue? How much is subs? How much is cartel market and services? How many whales were lost in the past? Did they leave? How many? We know the population diminished, but did the revenue? We do not know. We can only speculate, wich is what you are doing but uncapable to recognise. For example, the same situation is happening in WoW atm. The population has dramatically decreased but the revenue was kept by adding more cash shop items.

    And here come the lies! I have been playing swtor. I am not talking about the short term spikes. To this day you log into a fleet, a tython, a crosucant, a tatooine, you see lots of players. More than i even saw in my vanilla server 2 weeks after launch. Today's servers are very healthy and they have been much better since Onslaught.

    How much does it take for swtor to be mentioned in earning call? It was now mentioned as doing 1bil total and you are still saying it's not mentioned. Dude, we get it, it's not the most successful mmo in the market, but it's doing well enough. Get over yourself. Can you just care a bit more to have accurate numbers rather than make them up?
    Many mmo's still exist with much lower population. Why is that dude? Why do they exist? May it be cause they make money? May it be that the money an mmo makes is more complex than just the population it has? Even then, the game has a healthy population that has grown over the last 2 years and i still have to put up with your doom saying. Get over yourself. Who cares if the game is doing 125m or not? You have been fixated on that number a different poster threw and using it as your standard. Like who cares if it's making it or not? What matters is if it's doing well, and apparently it is, or they wouldn't still be investing in it. This is EA. If you don't have margins you get closed. SWTOR has been single handedly supporting that whole Austin studio for years. Only last year did Anthem come out and it has much less population than SWTOR now.

    Dude, i don't care about your magic number. You are the one stuck to it. I as well as everyone that plays the game just needs to know if the game is successful enough to continue to see support. Turns out it is, and it's doing well.

    Take your nonsense and shove it where the sun don't shine. No one cares about your vendetta.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2020-03-20 at 02:58 PM.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Not really sure what you're talking about.

    The only thing in the game that isn't able to be solo'd are operations.
    Operations and flashpoints are what I was referring to. Used to be that the old flashpoints weren't solo-able and still intended for groups. Also, I was under the impression that new operations were actually solo-able. Is that not the case? If so, that's just another thing to add to my list. The game should embrace what it became: a good solo star wars rpg.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Operations and flashpoints are what I was referring to. Used to be that the old flashpoints weren't solo-able and still intended for groups. Also, I was under the impression that new operations were actually solo-able. Is that not the case? If so, that's just another thing to add to my list. The game should embrace what it became: a good solo star wars rpg.
    But other than operations and pvp, it has embraced that I believe? Unless you mean offline as well, which is a different story nowadays

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Fkiolaris View Post
    But other than operations and pvp, it has embraced that I believe? Unless you mean offline as well, which is a different story nowadays
    Correct. I was saying they should offer an offline mode and just convert it into a true single player game, full stop, 100%.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    People that think WoW is in danger of being abandoned or is "dead" need to pay attention to actually zombie MMOs like SWTOR.
    Exactly - how many MMOs have launched after WoW and preceded to die? It's gotta be in the dozens at this point

  20. #220
    Do anyone have perfect races guide for beginners?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •