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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    3) There are WAY too many abilities. Like people want to bitch about WoW's pruning of abilities but JFC the sheer number in SWTOR is beyond ridiculous. It needs a major pruning/ability consolidation.
    This right here is what WoW was reaching back in Cataclysm when they added their last batch of 81-85 abilities. They realized that having entire bars filled with moves you never use in a certain spec was a detriment. Sadly they took it too far.
    -- Remember, never look over the long term story and try to piece together what Blizzard planned, only take singular moments out of context and blow them way out of proportion. We can argue better that way. Every time I try to look at the story as Blizzard are presenting it I'm either called a shill or a fanfiction writer. - Powerogue 2019

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    Its funny cause I felt this way when I tried ESO recently, its a newer game that feels like I'm playing a really old one. It has horrible graphics, animations, really bland and poorly designed combat and abilities, pretty much the only thing it has going for it is the elder scrolls universe and story telling... but even then I think I'd take SWTOR's questing structure over ESO's. Especially because SWTOR feels better to actually play with it being a WoW clone.

    I say this as someone who hadn't played SWTOR since launch and only recently downloaded it to fiddle around a bit and then put it back down for other games. I'm surprised how well SWTOR is holding up for how old it is and the lack of resources its gotten.
    Each to their own mate, I am not a fan of what ESO currently is, but putting it next to SWTOR in terms of animation and fluidity is like night and day for my taste. However, what SWTOR is, is something that I have accepted since release as a founder and I can live with it just fine.

    On the topic of ability pruning, I do not trust Bioware to do it right, if they ever try to do something like it again. One of the things that really killed my enthusiasm for the game was their massive ability pruning (plus killing hybrids entirely with the rigid trees) back with the release of the Revan expansion, if I remember the timings right. They removed a ton of situational abilities that were fun to use on clutch moments (ie range abilities/cover for scoundrels, stock strike for commandos etc), but they left other things like certain rotations looking like a convoluted mess (I am looking at you Focus Guardian). So what we ended up with was a situation where we still had ability bloat, but with less flavour for each spec (or discipline or whatever they are called, it's been a while).

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Fkiolaris View Post
    Each to their own mate, I am not a fan of what ESO currently is, but putting it next to SWTOR in terms of animation and fluidity is like night and day for my taste. However, what SWTOR is, is something that I have accepted since release as a founder and I can live with it just fine.
    I have a friend who's favorite game in the world is ESO, and even he can admit that the animations and combat are scuffed. Like he LOVES the shit out of that game but he can still be objective about it and separate his preference from what the game actually is. Like how could anyone seriously pretend the animations are fluid while it has things like a super stiff and awkward running animation and optimal play being to weave left clicks in between every attack which leads to the most awkward choppy ass animations where your character flails around.

    Don't get me wrong, swtor has its mix of decent animations and really stiff and rigid ones like the running animation... but ESO is just *not* the game to bring up as a counter example since its just as bad if not worse.
    "I've carefully played this game to an endless despair"

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    I have a friend who's favorite game in the world is ESO, and even he can admit that the animations and combat are scuffed. Like he LOVES the shit out of that game but he can still be objective about it and separate his preference from what the game actually is. Like how could anyone seriously pretend the animations are fluid while it has things like a super stiff and awkward running animation and optimal play being to weave left clicks in between every attack which leads to the most awkward choppy ass animations where your character flails around.

    Don't get me wrong, swtor has its mix of decent animations and really stiff and rigid ones like the running animation... but ESO is just *not* the game to bring up as a counter example since its just as bad if not worse.
    As I said, each to their own taste mate. You know your friend, I know mine and the people I played ESO with until recently and they agree with my opinion- does that make it a fact? No, just my and their opinion. So yes, while ESO is not perfect in that respect (or any other, unfortunately), for my taste what it does get good in terms of animation is miles better than SWTOR.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Fkiolaris View Post
    As I said, each to their own taste mate. You know your friend, I know mine and the people I played ESO with until recently and they agree with my opinion- does that make it a fact? No, just my and their opinion. So yes, while ESO is not perfect in that respect (or any other, unfortunately), for my taste what it does get good in terms of animation is miles better than SWTOR.
    If the question is whether or not ESO has "fluid" animations then yeah it factually doesn't.
    "I've carefully played this game to an endless despair"

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    If the question is whether or not ESO has "fluid" animations then yeah it factually doesn't.
    All of them? No. Some/a few/plenty of them? Most definitely yes. Are they better than SWTOR's? For my taste, and plenty of other people's taste, yes. That's as much as I have to say on this, you are free to disagree as you like.

  7. #147
    I returned to SWTOR a bit during WoW's quiet phase in between patches and man, there are some things that just bug me.

    1. just too many skills. WoW may have pruned too much, but SWTOR needs to have a bit of an hedge trim. As a Mercenary I hardly even look at half my action bar, and the spec design, while fun enough, really seems to boil down to hitting whatever button glows, then whatever 15 sec. ability comes off cooldown, then spamming Tracer Missile. The lack of DPS meter to see how well I'm performing does not help matters. My Assassin is a hot mess of skills as well, at least that is more justified by some being stealth-centric.

    2. I'm a Preferred status player that previously unlocked some things like Hide Helmet and unify colors so I don't have it so hard, but the game reminding you on every single menu screen that you could sub is a bit out of hand. At least the experience gain seems to have been fast-tracked a lot since last I played 4 years ago. Fuck the 1M credit limit and no way to do Operations however.

    3. and worst, it just feels clunky to play in general. The camera doesn't zoom out far enough. Character movement and targeting feel stiff for some odd reason. Spell animations are so flashy that fights easily become a total clusterfuck when more than two players are involved and I have no idea what's happening anymore. I dunno, the gameplay is too similar to WoW, and that only highlights how inferior it is.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukind View Post
    YOu used to be able to play without a sub

    They took away the warzone and raid passes....It's much worse

    I had prepared my acct to truly play F2P, came back and they had done away with the key stuff that made that plan work.
    You don't need to, though, don't you? There's 3 levels. Free to play, preferred, and subbed. If you were ever the latter if your sub lapses you fall back to preferred, not F2P, and it has a lot fewer restrictions. At least that's how I remember it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    I returned to SWTOR a bit during WoW's quiet phase in between patches and man, there are some things that just bug me.

    1. just too many skills. WoW may have pruned too much, but SWTOR needs to have a bit of an hedge trim. As a Mercenary I hardly even look at half my action bar, and the spec design, while fun enough, really seems to boil down to hitting whatever button glows, then whatever 15 sec. ability comes off cooldown, then spamming Tracer Missile. The lack of DPS meter to see how well I'm performing does not help matters. My Assassin is a hot mess of skills as well, at least that is more justified by some being stealth-centric.
    That's the point that WoW hit around Cataclysm time. Having bars of spells your spec never uses doesn't feel right, so they started trimming out things from each spec that they'd rarely use. Sadly they took it way too far.
    -- Remember, never look over the long term story and try to piece together what Blizzard planned, only take singular moments out of context and blow them way out of proportion. We can argue better that way. Every time I try to look at the story as Blizzard are presenting it I'm either called a shill or a fanfiction writer. - Powerogue 2019

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post

    That's the point that WoW hit around Cataclysm time. Having bars of spells your spec never uses doesn't feel right, so they started trimming out things from each spec that they'd rarely use. Sadly they took it way too far.
    Having abilities you don't use every single time you do battle is not a bad thing in itself, the main issue is having abilities that are in effect the same thing with a different animation and/or CD between them and nothing else to differentiate them. Oh, and set-up abilities ("hit A and then B and then C so that D does full damage, repeat for ever"). I mean, in a tab-targeting game, how many charges does a commando need? How many slashes does a jedi need? Why remove the flavour/utility and leave an endless list of what could very well be different ranks of the same spell?

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Fkiolaris View Post
    Having abilities you don't use every single time you do battle is not a bad thing in itself, the main issue is having abilities that are in effect the same thing with a different animation and/or CD between them and nothing else to differentiate them. Oh, and set-up abilities ("hit A and then B and then C so that D does full damage, repeat for ever"). I mean, in a tab-targeting game, how many charges does a commando need? How many slashes does a jedi need? Why remove the flavour/utility and leave an endless list of what could very well be different ranks of the same spell?
    I very much enjoyed the jedi shadow assassination combat playstyle. I had no idea what I'd be doing two spells from now, with the way the slashes, rock smash, force crush, and backstab interacted with one another.
    -- Remember, never look over the long term story and try to piece together what Blizzard planned, only take singular moments out of context and blow them way out of proportion. We can argue better that way. Every time I try to look at the story as Blizzard are presenting it I'm either called a shill or a fanfiction writer. - Powerogue 2019

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    As a Sith saving the galaxy is essential. If someone else is ruling the galaxy, it means that I'm not.
    *Evil should be combated by another form of evil*
    The hunter hoe with the least beloe.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    I returned to SWTOR a bit during WoW's quiet phase in between patches and man, there are some things that just bug me.

    1. just too many skills. WoW may have pruned too much, but SWTOR needs to have a bit of an hedge trim. As a Mercenary I hardly even look at half my action bar, and the spec design, while fun enough, really seems to boil down to hitting whatever button glows, then whatever 15 sec. ability comes off cooldown, then spamming Tracer Missile. The lack of DPS meter to see how well I'm performing does not help matters. My Assassin is a hot mess of skills as well, at least that is more justified by some being stealth-centric.

    2. I'm a Preferred status player that previously unlocked some things like Hide Helmet and unify colors so I don't have it so hard, but the game reminding you on every single menu screen that you could sub is a bit out of hand. At least the experience gain seems to have been fast-tracked a lot since last I played 4 years ago. Fuck the 1M credit limit and no way to do Operations however.

    3. and worst, it just feels clunky to play in general. The camera doesn't zoom out far enough. Character movement and targeting feel stiff for some odd reason. Spell animations are so flashy that fights easily become a total clusterfuck when more than two players are involved and I have no idea what's happening anymore. I dunno, the gameplay is too similar to WoW, and that only highlights how inferior it is.
    1. Ok, so your spec doesnt use all skills. This is the same case as fire mages having frostbolt. But everything else is something you will use in pvp at least.
    Get star parse for your damage meter.

    2. So stop being cheap and sub. WoW doesnt let you raid if you don't sub either.

    3. This is you not being used to it. Though there are things that could be better like the target marker. Its easy to lose track of it.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2020-01-15 at 03:10 AM.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    I'm an OCE player, The latency is a bit annoying but easily manageable. No worse than what I played with in WoW from Vanilla->Cata
    Agree its Manageable, but going from 20-30ms to 3-400ms was noticeable especially when playing voidstar and huttball, and having people on 20-30 ping while you are rocking 3-400 on a good day, just killed it for a few people.
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler

    If you are trying to AE tank and a bad dps is attacking the wrong target and dies, we call that justice.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Fkiolaris View Post
    Having abilities you don't use every single time you do battle is not a bad thing in itself, the main issue is having abilities that are in effect the same thing with a different animation and/or CD between them and nothing else to differentiate them. Oh, and set-up abilities ("hit A and then B and then C so that D does full damage, repeat for ever"). I mean, in a tab-targeting game, how many charges does a commando need? How many slashes does a jedi need? Why remove the flavour/utility and leave an endless list of what could very well be different ranks of the same spell?
    I actually like this gameplay, where you have to use a few abilities to set-up full damage on this other ability.

    There are several abilities that simply don't get used, either at all or get used very rarely, and that needs to be looked at but the idea that you have ~5-6 abilities that are all in synergy with each other to increase overall damage output is one I honestly really like, as it makes combat more complex without making it daunting and makes it so you have things to watch and pay attention to in an encounter.

  15. #155
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    If the question is whether or not ESO has "fluid" animations then yeah it factually doesn't.
    The biggest offender to that is LA Weaving and animation cancelling. Those things make your character look like it is having a seizure while fighting.
    RIP Genn Greymane, Permabanned on 8.22.18

    Your name will carry on through generations, and will never be forgotten.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I actually like this gameplay, where you have to use a few abilities to set-up full damage on this other ability.

    There are several abilities that simply don't get used, either at all or get used very rarely, and that needs to be looked at but the idea that you have ~5-6 abilities that are all in synergy with each other to increase overall damage output is one I honestly really like, as it makes combat more complex without making it daunting and makes it so you have things to watch and pay attention to in an encounter.
    In principle I like it too, I mean I cut my MMO teeth as a feral druid back in TBC and WotLK and I enjoyed it for what it was. And of course there are different ways where you can set that playstyle up (buffs/debuffs, ability costs, CDs etc). However, there are/were (haven't played in some time) specs like Focus Jedi Knight with stupid amounts of rotational abilities that were like 3 different strands of priorities going on at the same time with different timers and CDs and 90% of them could be simply be called "slash level x". My scrapper on the other hand was playing nicely because he had stealth (and pre-Revan, cover) to spread abilities out in different "stances" in a way, while my Gunnery Commando was kind of in-between the two.

    Don't get me wrong, they have already removed abilities (in 2.0 if I remember correctly) that were pretty much unused because they only served the purpose of "use this till level X where you get ability Y and then forget about it forever". I do believe though that before they touch utility/flavour abilities, they have to prioritise what are considered to be mandatory abilities for a disciplines rotation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    The biggest offender to that is LA Weaving and animation cancelling. Those things make your character look like it is having a seizure while fighting.
    Agreed on that 100%
    Last edited by Fkiolaris; 2020-01-14 at 05:48 PM.

  17. #157
    As long as they continue to support until I at least complete all class stories. I was on and off with this game over the past few years. I just started playing again a few days ago after not playing it for a couple years and I forgot how fun it can be. I always loved the individual storylines for each class, it's really cool how they did that.

    So if I can just at least get all of them completed before they stop supporting this game, I'll be satisfied. Although it'll be a sad day whenever they turn off the servers.
    I'd buy that for a dollar.

  18. #158
    6.1 launched today and it was under 10 minutes of content. If SWTOR had a budget and a bigger team, this game could be great, but thats not the world we live in.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Dakhath View Post
    6.1 launched today and it was under 10 minutes of content. If SWTOR had a budget and a bigger team, this game could be great, but thats not the world we live in.
    They did...and the game was a disaster at launch despite hundreds of staff and $300M+ in rumored development+marketing budget. This is what we have after years of poor decisions on their part cut development resources to this point.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    They did...and the game was a disaster at launch despite hundreds of staff and $300M+ in rumored development+marketing budget. This is what we have after years of poor decisions on their part cut development resources to this point.
    I'm aware of the history of the game, I'm talking about in the here and now. The game finally has a good director but it always seems like they're operating on a shoe string budget. Onslaught was a step in the right direction, but it was too short.

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