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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakana View Post
    Well i play monk and dh. I see the similarities. But in every wow history, every class has been more OP than another, and last expansion was the introdution of dhs and ofc they can't just nerf a class in the moment of shining on it's expansion, and BfA, in the beginning we weren't at all OP, we could at least live without gcds, but still our stats were pretty much bad, the 3 traits of eye beam made us a bit better, and the essences make us even better, now, you take all that from a dh, you get a dh without haste, and you get a dh less powerful, just by taking away those traits and the worse gear system ever in existence that is in BFA, you can just make a dh super weak.

    WW monk played well and if they had better traits that fortifies their abilities as we dhs do, i recognize dhs wouldn't be so hated by monks.
    But is this dhs fault? The only dh fault for existing is warlocks using their metamorphosis. The rest put the blames on blizzard for not doing math.
    Definitely not. I do remember Havoc not fairing amazingly at the start. It's definitely not the fault of DHs and the responsibility lies on Blizzard's unimaginative design when it comes to newer classes (Monks are faster Rogues, DHs are faster Monks). I just don't blame people for being bitter when WW plays so similar yet performs much worse, and it doesn't feel nice playing a spec only to have a shinier version under a new class come out and outperform yours.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainyhealz View Post
    Its outrageous how sensitive you are to opinions on a forum.
    I'm disgusted by the people that exists in this world. Yours and others, that can't be civil humans around a damn game and come to annoy every damn time others with their nonsense. If you're butthurt cause a dh always kill you, you let your frustration out on a thread on a forum about their class? Ye makes sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie081 View Post
    Definitely not. I do remember Havoc not fairing amazingly at the start. It's definitely not the fault of DHs and the responsibility lies on Blizzard's unimaginative design when it comes to newer classes (Monks are faster Rogues, DHs are faster Monks). I just don't blame people for being bitter when WW plays so similar yet performs much worse, and it doesn't feel nice playing a spec only to have a shinier version under a new class come out and outperform yours.
    I totally get that too. I mean, i'm not maining monk because i like the dhs are performing so fluid and so good to play atm. WW monk feels a bit lost in time atm. I barely even see a WW monk, i see healer MW, and all but really rare seeing a WW monk. It's about speaking about the issue without having to put an entirely class down and want them to stop existing. Or a person that wants to play one.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie081 View Post
    No. He's not wrong about Havoc being incredibly similar to WWs. People do ask and provide feedback and this expansion has been incredibly stale in terms of meta. WW's position at the bottom of the charts isn't changing and we all know that, but that doesn't mean it's not allowed to be discussed.

    You're implying that I'm blaming Havoc players for the spec being insanely similar to WW. That's Blizzard's fault, even though you clearly take offence.

    OT: I hope they get dialled back in PvP because they're too low-risk high-reward.
    Yes, but he didn't just say that he thought Havoc and WW were similar, he was making an inflammatory post about wanting Demon Hunters deleted because he felt hard done by.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakana View Post
    Exactly it's blizzard's fault, they are the ones designing what every class has, not the players. They are the ones that need to put appealing traits and make math to see if it's not too unfair and OP for other classes when in PVP or arenas, even for PVE but in pve it's ok. Just against against people in arenas can be ridiculous, and even open world, we are losing hp? Oh look a mob, - killed! ez hp back.
    Tbh I might be shittily geared, but having the heal from killing a mob in the open world is what often saves my life.

    My Havoc DH is fairly squishy and doesn't have a self-heal ready often enough to sustain themselves through constant damage if not for that mechanic.

    I can't comment on PvP. I've always loathed it and I go out of my way to avoid it, so that might be true. As somebody who's mained havoc Demon Hunter since they've been introduced, I'm just feeling a foul wind coming, indicating that Demon Hunters are likely to get mutilated in Shadowlands.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Yes, but he didn't just say that he thought Havoc and WW were similar, he was making an inflammatory post about wanting Demon Hunters deleted because he felt hard done by.
    I mean you can easily infer the comparison straight away when he mentions a fast mobile class and calling it Monk, but it's drowned out with major and petty salt.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Yes, but he didn't just say that he thought Havoc and WW were similar, he was making an inflammatory post about wanting Demon Hunters deleted because he felt hard done by.

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    Tbh I might be shittily geared, but having the heal from killing a mob in the open world is what often saves my life.

    My Havoc DH is fairly squishy and doesn't have a self-heal ready often enough to sustain themselves through constant damage if not for that mechanic.

    I can't comment on PvP. I've always loathed it and I go out of my way to avoid it, so that might be true. As somebody who's mained havoc Demon Hunter since they've been introduced, I'm just feeling a foul wind coming, indicating that Demon Hunters are likely to get mutilated in Shadowlands.
    It saves mine. lol How many times i kept alive because of the souls of mobs. Maybe it's because you're as you said "shitty geared" then you die so fast that the soul doesn't heal you enough for the damage you take.

    And i also feel they are going to get nerfed too in Shadowlands so, no point for more haters.
    Last edited by Shakana; 2020-01-02 at 06:03 PM.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakana View Post
    It saves mine. lol How many times i kept alive because of the souls of mobs. Maybe it's because you're as you said "shitty geared" then you die so fast that the soul doesn't heal you enough for the damage you take.

    And i also feel they are going to get nerfed too in Shadowlands so, no point for more haters.
    No, what I mean is that the soul feeding mechanic is what has saved my hide more times than I can count, not that I die despite the mechanic's existence.

    And yeah, I can only pray that they don't get totally unrecognizably torn to shreds. It has happened too often that a class gets reworked so hard it's barely identifiable anymore.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Reaper spec that uses Scythes to damage and harvest life force and heal others. That would be sick.
    Gotta admit, a polearm DH spec doing healery things sounds kind of interesting, especially if Blizz can learn to play nice with DPS/Heal/Hybrid mechanics in Shadowlands.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainyhealz View Post
    Its outrageous how sensitive you are to opinions on a forum.
    What's something you love? Something very important and cherished for you?

    Tell me, let me shit on it, and we'll see how high your horse still is, yeah?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PalliesThrowStuff View Post
    Gotta admit, a polearm DH spec doing healery things sounds kind of interesting, especially if Blizz can learn to play nice with DPS/Heal/Hybrid mechanics in Shadowlands.
    You mean like Allari the Souleater, the DH NPC in Azsuna?
    Do not ask questions for which you do not want the answers.

  9. #149
    I personally feel that a DH third spec would be another tank spec, with a shield and one warglaive, the Spellbreaker. Uses mostly shield-type abilities for active mitigation, runs on mana as primary resource, shields and defensives cost large amounts of mana, and the player puts up 'wards' like defensive sigils, which trigger on damage, reducing damage and granting mana returns based on damage prevented, feeding the basic tanking rotation loop, but tying the spec's staying power to incoming damage.

    Having a large pool that's tricky to refill makes their tanking niche clear, they're a front-loaded tank, their weakness is long drawn out fights, or fights where unpredictability causes them to waste wards. The skill challenge is similar to a healer's, you can be fantastically tough if you blow resources, but keep an eye on wasted resources, keep an optimal flow of damage in and out. Overtank, and wards don't have enough damage incoming to convert into mana and you'll blow up in the end, all tanks do a resource dance, but currently we don't have any specs running a model like this one, despite it being a pretty standard gameplay loop for other spec types such as Arcane and every single healer.

  10. #150
    They need to do something with VDH's defensives and utility. It's ridiculous that Havoc has more Defensive potential than Vengence.

    Havoc:
    Chaos Nova Stun
    Blur personal CD
    Darkness group CD
    Nearly invincible in Meta thanks to Leech Talent which is basically baseline.
    Blade Dance giving 100% dodge every less than 10 seconds making certain mechanics completely irrelevant if the DH isn't a braindead mongo who just spams it on CD (which is VERY rare).

    Vengeance:
    Shitty Fear Sigil
    Silence Sigil which can be pretty useful but only if you take Quickened Sigils or know ahead of time when exactly a cast is happening.
    Demon Spikes which is basically a bastard child of Shield Block and Fort Brew with way less uptime.
    Meta that has a fraction of the uptime and survivability as Havoc especially since Sould Rending (leech talent) is literally never taken since it competes with Fracture (almost always used) and Feed the Demon (maybe used in progression but who's bring VDH to progression?)

    Give VDH Chaos Nova and/or Darkness and VDH would actually bring something to the table.

    Also Blade Dance 100% dodge every 9 seconds is pretty broken OP and usually flies under the radar. The dodge should either be removed or only happen when the DH is in Meta form.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    No, what I mean is that the soul feeding mechanic is what has saved my hide more times than I can count, not that I die despite the mechanic's existence.

    And yeah, I can only pray that they don't get totally unrecognizably torn to shreds. It has happened too often that a class gets reworked so hard it's barely identifiable anymore.
    That's what i'm hoping for, i mean i can take a little nerf that doesn't let us be extreme OP, but not to the point i can't play it (like some idiotic people come here to say), we only have one spec for dps and i really don't see another, wouldn't make much sense, so nerfing that spec already alone would be really a big mistake. Dh is one fun class to play, i like fast classes and i love demons, fel, chaos all related to it. I'm edgy put me in a stake!

    I also mained rogue for the most of the time before pandaria, and i loved sub+assass spec because it's so fast what you can do with it. I love monk, it's more recent too, but i play it almost the same amount as my dh now, and i just love monk WW, i only play tank and dps specs. i indeed hate healing.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by SupBrah View Post
    They need to do something with VDH's defensives and utility. It's ridiculous that Havoc has more Defensive potential than Vengence.
    FYI - you're supposed to be running Gluttony with Vision of Perfection. The meta uptime is insane.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    My Havoc DH is fairly squishy and doesn't have a self-heal ready often enough to sustain themselves through constant damage if not for that mechanic.
    You're playing it wrong then. Nothing compares to the survivability of a DH both in the world and in dungeons. Fragment heals from dead mobs mean endless life in world PVP and M+ where things are dying, and coupled with Demonic Appetite you are essentially not in need of heals for most content. Blur and Dance are ridiculously useful and abusable (especially dance), and you're essentially able to dance out of stuns/CCs if timed correctly. You can even do the same with Rain and popping Meta.

    PEBKAC

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Didly View Post
    FYI - you're supposed to be running Gluttony with Vision of Perfection. The meta uptime is insane.

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    You're playing it wrong then. Nothing compares to the survivability of a DH both in the world and in dungeons. Fragment heals from dead mobs mean endless life in world PVP and M+ where things are dying, and coupled with Demonic Appetite you are essentially not in need of heals for most content. Blur and Dance are ridiculously useful and abusable (especially dance), and you're essentially able to dance out of stuns/CCs if timed correctly. You can even do the same with Rain and popping Meta.
    But that's what I said? That mechanic to eat souls of dead mobs is what keeps me alive rather often. Baseline DHs are fairly squishy. As expected, though.

  14. #154
    Pandaren Monk Bumbasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakana View Post
    we don't care about what you hate as you don't care about what we love.
    The question was what the wishes are for DHs in Shadowlands. I think it's a bit narrow minded to "not care" about an opinion just because it is different from yours.
    "This is no swaggering askari, no Idi Amin Dada, heavyweight boxing champion of the King's African Rifles, nor some wide shouldered, medal-strewn Nigerian general. This is an altogether more dangerous dictator - an intellectual, a spitefull African Robespierre who has outlasted them all." - The Fear: Robert Mugabe and the martyrdom of Zimbabwe, Peter Godwin.

  15. #155
    Bring Artifact traits back, bring removed abilities such as the magic damage shield back, make baseline the talents picked in 100% of all cases. Give it more buttons.

    Copy paste to every class.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Bumbasta View Post
    The question was what the wishes are for DHs in Shadowlands. I think it's a bit narrow minded to "not care" about an opinion just because it is different from yours.
    That's not an opinion, that's trying to kill a class.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakana View Post
    That's not an opinion, that's trying to kill a class.
    The class shouldn't have existed to begin with, but children do need a new toy to keep busy

    INFRACTION
    Last edited by Hugh Wattmate; 2020-01-03 at 07:06 PM. Reason: INFRACTION

  18. #158
    I'd like 2 things to happen to Veng:
    1) Make its Fel Breath baseline and replace the talent with a copy of havoc's demonic talent (obviously working with the breath)
    -this gives the on demand short defensive cd people want
    2) Rework Soul bomb to be a passive that works everytime you pick up a soul instead of being an active press
    -the talent is too required if you want to do any amount of damage and you can rebalance damge on the tier like this

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainyhealz View Post
    The class shouldn't have existed to begin with, but children do need a new toy to keep busy
    It's not in your hands to decide what should or shouldn't exist. And the world doesn't revolve around what you think.

  20. #160
    Hoping they bring back Momentum/Bloodlet as it was the only time I've enjoyed my DH (well until I never got AotHG anyhow).
    Momentum doesn't have close to enough of a payoff for the trade offs it requires.

    And if not, well it's only 2 years until the next expansion I suppose.

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