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  1. #61
    Druids during Wrath of the lich king were in my opinion the best one.

    We werent the best dps when it came to aoe but on single dps and 2 target's dps we were quite strong. People brought druids with them for not just their dps but mostly for their combat ress/buff and most importantly the innervate. Innervate could give a healer their entire mana back, because of this healers would whisper me for it. There was also the fact that any druid could do a tranquility for a big healing, the druid could also tank for a while which could save the raid. Ferals required to be behind the target for shred was something that was quite nice, it added some complexity in the form of positioning yourself right.
    The druid was a true hybrid in wrath of the lich king.

    For the druid to be a true hybrid class it would mean that many elements need to be taken over from wrath of the lich king. It doesnt have to be that we become dps gods or tank gods or healing gods, as long as we become a support class since that is what druids are. Imagine that blizzard makes druids the only support class and people start recruiting people who arent just good at their spec but can also contribute to the raid because they are good. Make some spells that a druid can use to support the raid depending how good he is doing his job. For a dps it would mean, good dps means big buff for couple of seconds in healing or dmg or reduced dmg or increased speed or increased spell casting etc etc.

  2. #62
    I want them to closely look at D4 Druid. I want abilities to be tied to seamless transformations.
    We already have dash tied to cat form. You hit it and you dash and become a cat in one GCD. This is how a lot of our abilities should be.

    Hit frenzied regeneration you become a bear. Cast starsurge you become a moonkin.
    Using your dash to an ally should bird form you during the travel.

    I want to see more effects like that so the druid feels like it is a master shape change. Heck I'd even like some cross abilities like as a moonkin have a dps cooldown that makes you fly at a target and slash 5 times as a cat and then you auto moonkin bound back where you are. That would be insanely cool.
    This. This. And This.

  3. #63
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    Druids were one of the least impacted classes of the prune, hence partly imo, why they're so popular now. As others have said, more shifting and spellweaving on the same gcd would be cool but I understand it's hard to balance as the possibilities become endless down that road - though so does the awesomesauce. They're one of the only classes right now where picking a spec doesn't feel like it excludes you from most of your class-capabilities or spellbook.
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  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimmak View Post
    I want them to closely look at D4 Druid. I want abilities to be tied to seamless transformations.
    We already have dash tied to cat form. You hit it and you dash and become a cat in one GCD. This is how a lot of our abilities should be.

    Hit frenzied regeneration you become a bear. Cast starsurge you become a moonkin.
    Using your dash to an ally should bird form you during the travel.

    I want to see more effects like that so the druid feels like it is a master shape change. Heck I'd even like some cross abilities like as a moonkin have a dps cooldown that makes you fly at a target and slash 5 times as a cat and then you auto moonkin bound back where you are. That would be insanely cool.
    I think something like this could (and should) be tied into the "Affinity" talents. Or what if they added a "Hybrid Form" talent that crosses our current form with our Affinity talent and enhances the bonuses in some way. Your Moonkin/Slash suggestion works with this. Or maybe a Guardian with Feral Affinity would get extra bleed damage and a chance to apply Rake. Resto with Feral can use Dash in Caster form and cast while moving when Dash is active.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwack View Post
    Druids were one of the least impacted classes of the prune, hence partly imo, why they're so popular now. As others have said, more shifting and spellweaving on the same gcd would be cool but I understand it's hard to balance as the possibilities become endless down that road - though so does the awesomesauce. They're one of the only classes right now where picking a spec doesn't feel like it excludes you from most of your class-capabilities or spellbook.
    Is that really true, though? Feral has one healing spell left (regrowth). We used to have Regrowth, Healing Touch, Rejuvenate and Tranquility. Bear form has literally no defensive abilities without the affinity talent. Even if you take into account the affinity talents, the associated abilities are nearly useless. Rejuvernate isn't worth casting because it heals for nothing. Iron fur can't be stacked as resto/balance/feral and doesn't compensate for the lack of armor/hp/defensive cooldowns.

    Sure, you can shift into bear or caster form. But what's next? You literally can't do anything in these forms. Maybe use Regrowth 3-4 times. That's it. Which is nothing compared to former possiblities.
    Last edited by Beatman; 2019-12-04 at 11:41 PM.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwack View Post
    Druids were one of the least impacted classes of the prune, hence partly imo, why they're so popular now. As others have said, more shifting and spellweaving on the same gcd would be cool but I understand it's hard to balance as the possibilities become endless down that road - though so does the awesomesauce. They're one of the only classes right now where picking a spec doesn't feel like it excludes you from most of your class-capabilities or spellbook.
    I think it's more because resto is the rare combination of fuckin OP in M+ and actually fun to play (though a single target non-hot heal would be nice). And people copycat what the top players do.
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatman View Post
    Is that really true, though? Feral has one healing spell left (regrowth). We used to have Regrowth, Healing Touch, Rejuvenate and Tranquility. Bear form has literally no defensive abilities without the affinity talent. Even if you take into account the affinity talents, the associated abilities are nearly useless. Rejuvernate isn't worth casting because it heals for nothing. Iron fur can't be stacked as resto/balance/feral and doesn't compensate for the lack of armor/hp/defensive cooldowns.

    Sure, you can shift into bear or caster form. But what's next? You literally can't do anything in these forms. Maybe use Regrowth 3-4 times. That's it. Which is nothing compared to former possiblities.
    I know it sucks in comparison to be limited like this but it's done to better balance these capabilities across roles. They put them into affinities to at least leave you the options instead of remove them completely. While weaksauce, your only reason for going into bear is for the taunt and into caster for the hot. That's more utility than most get offered, if any, without being stuck with lengthy cds attached on them and as exclusive boons to your own character.
    Last edited by Tiwack; 2019-12-06 at 02:34 AM.
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  8. #68
    Would like to see Feral Frenzy be baseline.

    A treant-like ability that would be replaced with mirrored cats for feral dps, bears for a guardian defensive, or a moonkin for balance dps. Simular to the monk Storm Earth and Fire ability.

    The ability to finally transmog out of the artifact daggers and still use the artifact forms.

    I’d also like to see what blizzard has planned for blood talons.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nefarious Tea View Post
    I think it's more because resto is the rare combination of fuckin OP in M+ and actually fun to play (though a single target non-hot heal would be nice). And people copycat what the top players do.
    While resto is currently strong across the board, they're also in for a nerf in the coming patch. It's taken everyone a while to get to this point as players only began to realize how strong they were at healing m+ around this time last year.
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwack View Post
    While resto is currently strong across the board, they're also in for a nerf in the coming patch. It's taken everyone a while to get to this point as players only began to realize how strong they were at healing m+ around this time last year.
    I Just checked wowhead to see if you were correct (and you're not): the healing of Resto isn't being nerfed. Only ancillary damage coming from a boomkin trait. But, apparently Balance is taking a 10% hit across the board, which is pretty sad for a class that is already low.

    Tinfoil hat time: Blizzard nerfs classes not based on how they actually perform, but based on if they're too popular over other classes.
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  11. #71
    As a Balance main, more than anything I would like nature's balance to be baseline. IMO it just makes the spec feel so much better.

    I also wouldn't complain if shooting stars was made baseline (along with the removal of the diminishing returns they added in BfA). It was fun stacking multiple starfalls in legion.

    To those wanting hurricane back I have to ask why? Having to channel your aoe would make you so immobile and a lot of mechanics make you move. Sounds like it would be pretty frustrating gameplay most of the time.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwack View Post
    I know it sucks in comparison to be limited like this but it's done to better balance these capabilities across roles. They put them into affinities to at least leave you the options instead of remove them completely. While weaksauce, your only reason for going into bear is for the taunt and into caster for the hot. That's more utility than most get offered, if any, without being stuck with lengthy cds attached on them and as exclusive boons to your own character.
    That might be what the forms are used for now, but they weren't always that way. When Druids had access to a larger toolkit and HotW in MoP, they were super hybrid, but were hardly overpowered. I miss my Druid being the jack-of-all-trades, it's what drew me to the class way back when in vanilla. The Druid's hybrid identity has slowly been eroded over the years, to the point where they're a specialist copy of another pure class, but (with the exception of Restoration) not as good as that class. Balance, in particular, since Legion has felt more like 'nature mage' to me than an actual Druid, but with virtually none of the utility (and certainly not the damage) that a Mage can bring.

    Give more baseline abilities back, and let the Affinity talents actually increase the power of one of your Druid 'sub specs'. I remember when I had nearly full actions bars for *all* my forms in WotLK. I don't necessarily want that back, but being Balance specced with Restoration Affinity and having nothing to use in either Bear or Cat form is a little too far the other way!

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Infernoxas View Post
    The ability to finally transmog out of the artifact daggers and still use the artifact forms.
    I actually want the opposite: I want the bear claws, but as a ZTroll, I want to keep my dino form
    Oh yes, there is a method to my madness O.o
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  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Nefarious Tea View Post
    I Just checked wowhead to see if you were correct (and you're not): the healing of Resto isn't being nerfed. Only ancillary damage coming from a boomkin trait.
    Here is the official changes coming in 8.3 (always! go to the source, instead of regurgitated info on a fansite)
    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...-n-zoth/324816

    "Mastery: Harmony healing bonus reduced by 9%."

    Clearly, resto mastery is being nerfed, which will nerf healing - primarily in M+ where you have more average mastery stacks then in raids.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystikal View Post
    That might be what the forms are used for now, but they weren't always that way. When Druids had access to a larger toolkit and HotW in MoP, they were super hybrid, but were hardly overpowered. I miss my Druid being the jack-of-all-trades, it's what drew me to the class way back when in vanilla. The Druid's hybrid identity has slowly been eroded over the years, to the point where they're a specialist copy of another pure class, but (with the exception of Restoration) not as good as that class. Balance, in particular, since Legion has felt more like 'nature mage' to me than an actual Druid, but with virtually none of the utility (and certainly not the damage) that a Mage can bring.

    Give more baseline abilities back, and let the Affinity talents actually increase the power of one of your Druid 'sub specs'. I remember when I had nearly full actions bars for *all* my forms in WotLK. I don't necessarily want that back, but being Balance specced with Restoration Affinity and having nothing to use in either Bear or Cat form is a little too far the other way!
    Part of their reasoning for the prune in the first place was the high skill ceilings for some of the classes, where druids were naturally one of the worst offenders. This gave people both extremely mixed experiences and feelings about both playing them and encountering them in group-content but especially in so in pvp. Very few would take them very far at end-level when they rolled into them. As a result they were either jacks of all trades and virtually impossible to beat, or fulfilling their roles while being utility punching bags with very little middle-ground between the two. Being confused themselves together with their teammates every balance patch because the margins were so small along with the many directions you could tackle gearing and playstyle, it was impossible to predict how they'd play out without a lot of actual testing by the players themselves which few had the patience for.
    Instead of all these swings and misses back and forth and step learning curves, they're more in line with other classes but especially the group-roles that are picked with every spec. Normally I'm a fan of complexity but it can become too much and this was bound to be the result with how they develop the game and classes. It couldn't go on forever. Everyone were sick of seeing a majority of druid healers in pvp, noobs failing miserably or hardcores carrying groups, with no way to tell them apart even with inspection before actually seeing them in action. It's part of the reason we have logs and sites to rank and spreadsheet everything and everyone now for better or worse.

    The affinities already do what you ask as they serve as a middle-ground along with a choice for you to make without speccing completely into the new role. Even without the affinity you still have the utility just without the niche abilities you'd have to change the affinity in order to use. Which baseline abilities do you miss and would you rather not be part of the affinity pick then? We're lucky to have the affinity choice imo. While it's not every role rolled into one like before, it is still more than most get and more in line with other classes without ruining the class completely.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Malmmoc View Post
    As a Balance main, more than anything I would like nature's balance to be baseline. IMO it just makes the spec feel so much better.

    I also wouldn't complain if shooting stars was made baseline (along with the removal of the diminishing returns they added in BfA). It was fun stacking multiple starfalls in legion.

    To those wanting hurricane back I have to ask why? Having to channel your aoe would make you so immobile and a lot of mechanics make you move. Sounds like it would be pretty frustrating gameplay most of the time.
    They could allow movement during channeling of hurricane as a talent replacing one of the ones you desire as baseline I think balance has some of the best talent options currently available and they nerfed the starfall aoe after it being by far the best for two full expansions straight. Talent choices are one of the things they love feedback and ideas on.
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwack View Post
    The affinities already do what you ask as they serve as a middle-ground along with a choice for you to make without speccing completely into the new role. Even without the affinity you still have the utility just without the niche abilities you'd have to change the affinity in order to use. Which baseline abilities do you miss and would you rather not be part of the affinity pick then? We're lucky to have the affinity choice imo. While it's not every role rolled into one like before, it is still more than most get and more in line with other classes without ruining the class completely.
    They don't, though. That's the problem. If I spec Feral Affinity as Balance main spec, for example, I get a suite of Cat Form abilities that are never beneficial to use. The passive is usfeul, but you could give all the Cat Form abilities back baseline and the talent itself would have just as much (or little, depending on your outlook) value as it does now. Back in MoP, however, you could use Heart of the Wild to vastly increase Cat Form's damage potential, but only once every 6 minutes. It became a pseudo-cooldown, but one which also allowed you to off-tank and off-heal for a brief period - again, once every 6 minutes. It made Druids feel incredibly hybrid, but the problem - as always - was PvP.

    To further highlight the problem, go on your Balance Druid, select Feral or Restoration Affinity, and go into Bear Form. You will see that you have access to Mangle, which generates Rage... and nothing to spend that Rage on! At all! Are you telling me it would be game-breaking if Druids of all specs could use Maul as a Rage spender, regardless of main spec or affinity pick? Hardly.

    If all Druids had access to Shred, Rip, Rejuvenation and Maul, are you trying to tell us that they would become unbeatable gods of PvP? No, of course they wouldn't. However, it would give access to a few meaningful abilities in all of your forms, with rewards for situational good use, and allow the affinity talents to double-down on your 'second spec'. In many ways, it would actually improve class flavour, as a Balance Druid player would be distinct from their fellow players based on their affinity choices and where their sub-spec potential lay.

  17. #77
    Make Guardian fun again

  18. #78
    Feral Wishlist is the following:

    Unprunings/Additions/Baselines:
    • Baseline Innervate - returning mana (old version)
    • Baseline Cyclone and make it either a) instant on PS or b) castable in form
    • Baseline Primal Wrath
    • Baseline Leader of the Pack & (old) Mark of the Wild
    • Baseline 5cp/42sec duration Savage Roar with WoD/MoP QoL features
    • Baseline Barkskin
    • Baseline Wild Charge
    • Baseline Tranquility
    • Instant Hibernate on PS again
    • Infected Wounds increased to 50% and moved to Shred
    • No GCD on Shapeshifting again (only internal cooldown)
    • No Affinities - Everything Baseline again (Frenzied Regen / Might of Ursoc, Rejuvenation, Moonfire, Wrath, Starfire etc)
    • Faerie Swarm/Typhoon/Mass Entanglement talent row (instead of Affinities)
    • Mighty Bash/Disorienting Roar (DRing with only itself)/Ursol's Vortex talent row (instead of current level 60 row)
    • Stampeding Roar & Dash clearing slows & roots baseline
    • Cenarion Ward/Swiftmend as talent option (level 30 row)
    • Blood Scent talent option (level 15 row)
    • Heart of the Wild/Passive Healing Touch increase by 30%/Nature's Vigil talent row (level 90 row)
    • Pack Force: Talent with 3x charges, 30y range. Spawns a Cat with low HP at enemy which instantly applies a Rake dot (snapshottable) and an 80% Infected Wounds slow with 4 seconds duration, Cat disappears into the shadows after 5 seconds. Essentially Force of Nature but tailored to Feral (level 75 row, instead of Savage Roar)
    • Feral Prowess: Talent which permanently, passively, makes us snapshots all short duration buffs again (level 100 row, instead of Bloodtalons).

    Removals:
    • Lunar Inspiration
    • Brutal Slash & Scent of Blood
    • Bloodtalons (or at least vastly reworked to a) not be on the GCD and b) not be tied to PS)
    • Ferocious Wound (or well, just remove all PvP talents tbh - the stuff in there that's not borderline stupid/OP should be baselined or part of the regular talent tree anyway)

    Other changes:
    • Sabertooth reverted into the old 25% FB refreshes Rip execute mechanic.
    • Survival Instinct changed to 1x charge only, but with 12 seconds duration.
    • Most damage moved over into bleeds.

    Also some logic (because I know people will be asking):
    • Most of these things is just making us a class, instead of a spec. I want myself to feel like a Druid, and a Feral - not like a Feral who's borrowed some Balance/Resto/Guardian things (Affinities). Also don't want to change significantly different in terms of mechanics in PvP and PvE (removal of PvP talents).
    • I want to make the core gameplay loop baselined. I don't want the rotation to change every second boss / pvp fight because talent combination XYZ is now clearly better than ABC (removal of AoE talent row, removal of Bloodtalons).
    • Changes are focused on making us maintain bleeds with strong snapshotting (Feral Pack, Feral Prowess, Savage Roar etc), making most of our damage come from that source.
    • Focus is on improving what we used to be good at but are now horrible at (making us horrible in general), while removing "workarounds". Areas we used to be strong in are CC (Hibernate, Feral Pack, 2 CC talent rows, Cyclone), mobility (Shapeshifting GCD, Wild Charge, Dash/Stampeding Roar clearing roots & slows Infected Wounds, removal of Lunar Inspiration) and defensives (Barskskin, Survival Instinct, Frenzied Regen / Might of Ursoc).
    • A large focus is to remove the clunkiness from the spec with the removal of Bloodtalons (I hope the return of savage roar and true snapshotting will offset this for even the most diehard Bloodtalons fans) and shapeshifting GCD change.
    Last edited by RelaZ; Yesterday at 02:35 PM.

  19. #79
    My wish is remove the affinity row and made all 4 baseline for the whole class, making druids real hybrid again, allowing them to perform more or less well on roles that aren't the spec of choice. No point of being a shapeshifter if you are 99,99% of the time in the same form. What's the point of having Bear Form as, say Feral spec, if it only has 2 baseline abilities and it will only last 1 or 2 more hits than cat form. I want all forms to be useful and perform well somehow, even if it's only for short periods of times.

    Symbiosis back.

    As for feral, my spec: it's perfect for me right now. Don't make Savage Roar baseline ever again. I'd trade Swipe for and AoE combo point spender baseline.

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