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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    That's not really true, the fans are very important to the developers at Blizzard, but the story has to be told the way it's meant to be told. No author worth his or her salt is going to substantially change their story because of fan outcry over a specific character.
    I still believe the conspiracy theory that fan outcry made blizzard rethink the chandelier's prophecy about Illidan and killed her off instead.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Okay, dude, you do realize that guys like Arthas have an even bigger fan base, yes? And yet he still died. Same thing with Gul'dan, and Azshara, and the Legion...

    Fan bases mean fuck all towards Blizzard.
    There's a difference between long established villains getting their end, and suddenly turning fanboy favourite faction leader of over a decade into a villain and killing it off. Not happening.

    As you might have noticed, they didn't even have the guts to kill Thrall off, despite it having been high time he's out of the picture for good since Cata.
    Last edited by Aedrielle; 2019-11-09 at 08:29 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteCharger View Post
    Because it makes no sense for forces of death (ie. benevolent forces of nature) to work with demons to use "death magic" to interrupt the natural flow. That contradicts all common sense. It also contradicts the Nathrezim being demons from the twisting nether.

    It also contradicts the point of Nerzhul being sent to Azeroth to kill all the living not be a "jailer" of the damned as part of some grand scheme with death.

    Not only that it contradicts the undead and the scourge as abominations throwing off the balance of nature and death.
    Nope. All of that is thrown out the window with Sylvanas making a deal with death that basically allows her undead corpse to keep living.
    Because by all rights any force of death should immediately snatch her soul to the shadowlands where she belongs.
    But not going to happen because apparently death is ok with necromatic death magic keeping souls of the dead in the world of the living.
    This is the "grand scheme" to be revealed in the upcoming xpac.
    You must really get your panties twisted into knots when we find real world examples of our actual history being "retconned" just because we got new information that presents past events in a different light


    hows it like living with your head shoved so far up your ass that new information is always a bad thing to gain?
    Never believe you have seen the peak of human stupidity and ignorance, or you will constantly be surprised by the new levels the reach almost every day

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Turns out all along they were made in the shadowlands! I guess since KJ is dead now they are spitting on his grave in order to promote the new big boi boss. I wonder what new retcons are in store with this expansion!

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/blizzar...ast-story/amp/
    You must be world first to have played Shadowlands expansion and see what the story is all about.

  5. #265
    Considering some Nathrezim were masters of shadow magic and even aligned themselves with the Old Gods back when Sargeras was a goodboi. I don't see why they wouldn't have access to the Shadowlands.

  6. #266
    So, how does this actually change the original story behind the items? Or is just more story into deeper to the lore?

    Why all the fuzz?
    Last edited by Matiketope; 2019-11-09 at 09:59 AM.

  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fistfighter View Post
    That's not really retcon, right. Kil'jaden just pulled them from the Shadowlands, effectively "creating them" on the normal realm.
    Anything that so much as touches upon or adds details to existing lore is a retcon in this community.

  8. #268
    There's a phrase you need to learn and take to heart. If you are familiar with warhammer, you might already know it:

    "Everything is canon. Not everything is true."

    There are no retcons, just different accounts of different people. All the lore you read is in-universe propaganda, shaped by different parties to suit their needs.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteCharger View Post
    It also contradicts the Nathrezim being demons from the twisting nether.
    The Nathrezim are a race older than Sargeras himself.
    So imagine this scenarii : The Nathrezim where the denizen of the Shadowlands, or the Nathrezim were once a mortal race that became a big shot in the ventyr covenant once they were dead. Hell, even the actual leader of the ventyr got a nathrezim sounding name ' Denathrius '
    they lived in nathreza and became corrupted by the Fel Magic and became demons. Thus closing their doorway to the shadowlands forever. thus, we now have the nathrezim demons race that Sargeras encountered after. ( The eredars were mortals too before )

    See ? that works and nothing is retconned.

    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteCharger View Post
    It also contradicts the point of Nerzhul being sent to Azeroth to kill all the living not be a "jailer" of the damned as part of some grand scheme with death.
    Nerzhul was not sent to Azeroth to " kill all the livng ". It was sent there as a pawn for the Legion when the Legion will need him, and served exactly that purpose. Until he rebelled . What we dont know so far is if there was a " catch " from the power the legion borrowed in the shadowlands. They may even have made a Bargain with the jailer that wasn't dealt with, and it would explain why the machine of death broke during Legion when the BL returned to Azeroth.

    The only " retcon " as of now is Sylvanas's encounter with the jailer and her goal that changed on the fly despite her thinking otherwise in the books...

  10. #270
    High Overlord Fiacla's Avatar
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    I'm going to go with the theory that the nathrezim (who, as noted earlier, have an affinity with necromancy) pulled it out of the shadowlands and said job done.

    Though reading through the first page of this thread is pretty gross, alot of insults .

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    I mean demons = fel, but they did enslave/recruit other races. So like the Orcs brought shaman magic I suppose. Probably why it is important that the Dreadlords did the Lich King stuff and not the demon-Burning Legion, because the demons wouldn't have had any way to do so, but maybe the Dreadlords did.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Idk about you, but it looks to me like the Revendreth guys:



    https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/wowpe...Revendreth.jpg

    Are actually the source of the Nathrezim:



    https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/wowpe..._Dreadlord.jpg

    Probably just corrupted with fel/demon stuff to make them have extra big horns and wings, like Draenei -> Kil'Jaeden.
    Alright, and if that's the case indeed, and Revendreth are the uncorrupted versions of dreadlords, it still doesn't retcon the fact that Dreadlords created the helm and sword with KJ. It's like people cannot add 1+1 together. And if Revendreth are not the dreadlords, dezidens of the shadowlands could still have helped the dreadlords and KJ to create these artifacts.

    Or it could just be a bunch of lies, cause that's KJ's speciality, and he just stole these from the shadowlands instead of making them himself.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfingaz View Post
    She wants to dethrone the jailer so when she dies she can be at peace, and she is using us to do so.

    You can take that to the bank.
    Didn't they confirm at Blizzcon that she and the jailer are partners? Where did you find evidence that her goal was to dethrone him?

  13. #273
    To me it sounds like people being mad that when we got more information it didn't align with what people themselves used to fill in the blanks...

  14. #274
    After bc retcons and wotlk retcon will be the turn of cata retcon! 2 expansions from now we'll learn that the old gods didn't corrupt neltharion at all, he just had a thorn stuck under his paw and that's what made him really grumpy and aggressive , cue wrathion seeking vengeance for killing his old innocent dad.

  15. #275
    The Devs have already called the lore a 'limitation' they don't want to be 'bound' by. Idk why this surprises anyone. Whoever is in charge of the story is shit at their job and instead of going with what they have and being creative they just throw away what they can't figure out/don't like and move on. If you're still here for the story kudos to you. I checked out after 'alternate timelines/universes' were introduced and made a plot instead of being an abstract thought like they should have remained.

    Side note, watching people who have no idea talk about lore on this thread is super cringe worthy. Nathrezim = Revendreth? No... like... in no way is that remotely close. The fkn Nathrezim aren't from the shadowlands. God this hurts my eyes!
    Last edited by Nuggsy; 2019-11-09 at 10:58 AM.
    "Honor, young heroes. No matter how dire the battle, never forsake it."
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  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Aresk View Post
    Didn't they confirm at Blizzcon that she and the jailer are partners? Where did you find evidence that her goal was to dethrone him?
    Backstabbing is a thing and happens a lot...

  17. #277
    Elemental Lord HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedrielle View Post
    There's a difference between long established villains getting their end, and suddenly turning fanboy favourite faction leader of over a decade into a villain and killing it off. Not happening.

    As you might have noticed, they didn't even have the guts to kill Thrall off, despite it having been high time he's out of the picture for good since Cata.
    Because Thrall didn't turn into a genocidal maniac. And also, if you think they can't do it with Sylvanas, then please look at Garrosh, my friend. She high key called him an "amateur".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Backstabbing is a thing and happens a lot...
    Implying the Jailer won't catch up to that.

    Hell, N'zoth caught up with it. And he's a mere Old God.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Engal View Post
    was not sent to Azeroth to " kill all the livng ". It was sent there as a pawn for the Legion when the Legion will need him, and served exactly that purpose. Until he rebelled . What we dont know so far is if there was a " catch " from the power the legion borrowed in the shadowlands. They may even have made a Bargain with the jailer that wasn't dealt with, and it would explain why the machine of death broke during Legion when the BL returned to Azeroth.

    The only " retcon " as of now is Sylvanas's encounter with the jailer and her goal that changed on the fly despite her thinking otherwise in the books...
    Disagree. The retcon aside for Sylvanas’ thoughts on being Warchief is that they’re trying to make the Lich King out to be something more significant than he actually ever was. As you’ve mentioned, he was a Legion bitch. The Dreadlords all had his abilities and were supposed to police him. It’s why he needed Arthas.

    It doesn’t make sense that the Nathrezim would go this far out of their way to create a being that is basically a bargain bin Dreadlord.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post

    Implying the Jailer won't catch up to that.

    Hell, N'zoth caught up with it. And he's a mere Old God.
    Didn't imply anything of the sort... just saying that "bad guys" partnering up rarely is about caring for each other...

  20. #280
    I now wonder... when Varimathras talks about how Sylvanas will betray us (Legion fight), he mentioned that we will only notice it after the "...shattered mask hangs above our hearth..." - does it have to do with Sylvanas ripping apart the Lichking's Crown? He also mentions that our holy places will burn (Teldrassil)

    I assumed he meant her "pretend to be nice"-mask (or whatever comes close to it, edit: or the banner of undercity, now that I think about it..), but now I'm not so sure anymore.. considering the fact that the Nathrezim know about the true origin of the Helm of Domination
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2019-11-09 at 07:46 PM.

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