Kiljaedan and Nathrezim didnt create Frostmourne & Lich King Armor

[Snuffe]

"Why are you so attached to the original lore? Retcons are a good thing!" -the shills, no doubt on their way

Huh? Becuse it is "the lore" that is how it have always been, that how the world and story was built. For several years at that, The lore should always stay as it was. You cant just change it at whims. It is kinda hard to take the story seriously if you cant even trust it anymore. It is like should we even take any events from Legion/BFA seriously if if we just think they gonna recton it in 5 years and it have never happened.

I do look forward to play shadowland and it looks promising for me atleast, But i really dont like Retcons.

[Elden]

In a recent Chinese interview, Ion said that Kil’jaeden (and presumably the Dreadlords) used the power of the Shadowland to create the helm, there is no retcon in this.

[TheRainman]

X was done. This is a fact. Years later we find out HOW X was done. This is not a retcon. Unless they told us how X was done, then changed their mind and told us forget what we said before, this is how it was done.

Unless they told us how Kil'jaeden created the sword and helm, which they didn't, and then changed the story to how he got them from the Shadowlands, it is not a retcon.

Shadowlands did not exist in WC3. The idea of their existence didn't happen until WoW. I'm not saying they can't continue to create new lore, and I'm not saying they can't or that they shouldn't. But saying that they're not creating some story element today and connecting it to an event in the past as if the story they just created was there all along is a retcon.

All retcons do not have to change literal accepted facts. It can simply be by adding new information about some aforementioned event in the past to provide a new level on continuity to current story elements.

[Syegfryed]

Shadowlands is basically "its just a prank bro" to every past lore, nothing is safe.

[zlygork]

TBH, the lich king looked like litterally no other Legion creation. I am happier with this.

[Fallen of Lordaeron]

That's not really retcon, right. Kil'jaden just pulled them from the Shadowlands, effectively "creating them" on the normal realm.

Nathrezim-forged, similar to Apocalypse, was the lore for Frostmourne & the armor up until now.

It could always be the Dreadlords made them in the Shadowlands. They said we'd "meet" the blacksmith who made them, so we'll see where it goes.

[Caerule]

As others have stated, Chinese interview confirms it was indeed Kil'Jaeden, but that it also involved the power of the Shadowlands.

The central hub of the Shadowlands is apparently full of soul traders. You really think we won't find old friends there like the ethereals and demons?

Kil'Jaeden knowing about the Shadowlands and interacting with them is not a retcon. It's a lore expansion, not an overwrite.

People need to stop calling it a "retcon" every time they learn more details of the past.

[DemonHunter18]

everything is connected to Shadowlands lately.

[Edlarel]

everything is connected to Shadowlands lately.

...And always has been.

[TheRainman]

As others have stated, Chinese interview confirms it was indeed Kil'Jaeden, but that it also involved the power of the Shadowlands.

The central hub of the Shadowlands is apparently full of soul traders. You really think we won't find old friends there like the ethereals and demons?

Kil'Jaeden knowing about the Shadowlands and interacting with them is not a retcon. It's a lore expansion, not an overwrite.

People need to stop calling it a "retcon" every time they learn more details of the past.

Sometimes that's exactly what a retcon is. Retcons do not ONLY overwrite "accepted facts" with "new facts".

A retcon can simply use modern story devices to add new information and explain an event in the past.

[A Chozo]

No. Argus accelerates the process, but it happens anywhere.

There's nowhere in-game or in any official source that says that Argus accelerates the proccess.

What we do know:

When demons die, they go back to the Twisting Nether by default.
But when the Burning Legion demons die, they are transported to Antorus, and some are punished;
And Argus (the World Soul) "fuels" the infinite army, and without him, they are finite.

Argus could very well be just anchoring the demonic souls in Argus instead of making 'em spawn anywhere in the infinite Nether. Or maybe he's accelerating it. But nothing was confirmed.

[Feanoro]

The central hub of the Shadowlands is apparently full of soul traders.

So instead of working dark and terrible magic, KJ goes to his favorite bar, meets someone from Souls R Us, and bargains for Lich King armor over drinks.* Somehow that's a bit of a letdown, given the whole "exterminate all life in the universe" thing.


*I know that's not what you said, but it's the mental image the term "soul traders" created.

[sedridor107]

Sometimes that's exactly what a retcon is. Retcons do not ONLY overwrite "accepted facts" with "new facts".

A retcon can simply use modern story devices to add new information and explain an event in the past.

you should look up the definition of retcon dude...

[Aucald]

you should look up the definition of retcon dude...

There is and always has been significant debate about what does or doesn't constitute a "retcon," as well as the bounds concerning the scope of retcons. Similar to the term "Mary Sue," the term "retcon" gets a lot of misuse. It's one of those terms that, when one uses it, one should also supply some pretty cogent reasoning as to why they're using it.

[TheRainman]

you should look up the definition of retcon dude...

RetCon: (Retroactive Continuity) To revise (an aspect of a fictional work) retrospectively, typically by introducing a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events.

^ Source Oxford dictionary.
There ya go bud.

We were told KJ created it. They didn't say how. They just told us he did. Our interpretation of it was left to our own imagination. Then almost two decades later, they introduce new information. It now changes how we had previously imagined or interpreted the origin / creation of the armour.

Even the words Retroactive Continuity imply the definition. Adding new story elements or information retroactively and creating a continuity between a past event and a present story arc.

See the parallels to the definition? Glad we could chat.

[Schattenlied]

Just in case someone has forgot, but the Monsters Manual is very clear on who created the Plate of the Damned along with the Helm of Domination

Why does their lore team consist of such losers?

The Monsters manual, from the RPG? You know the RPG was declared to be non-canon like a decade ago, right?

[Karlz0rz]

Blizzard made the original lore. They can do whatever the fuck they want.
Deal with it!

[Schattenlied]

We were told KJ created it.

We were never told KJ created it, in the past it was just that he only created the Lich King himself, while we were told that the Nathrezim were the ones that created the Helm, Armor, and Frostmourne...

We were never told how they made it though, or where it was forged, or from what, or what kind of magic was specifically used to enchant it, for that matter... The answer to any of those questions could tie it to the shadowlands without removing the "made by the Nathrezim" bit.

[La]

Huh? Becuse it is "the lore" that is how it have always been, that how the world and story was built. For several years at that, The lore should always stay as it was. You cant just change it at whims. It is kinda hard to take the story seriously if you cant even trust it anymore. It is like should we even take any events from Legion/BFA seriously if if we just think they gonna recton it in 5 years and it have never happened.

I do look forward to play shadowland and it looks promising for me atleast, But i really dont like Retcons.

You realize you just said what he said in more words, right?

[Deathrange]

As stated earlier, Ion confirmed it that KJ used the power of Shadowlands to craft the Helm. https://ngabbs.com/read.php?tid=19140553 Question #5. People need to stop jumping to conclusions and act like the sky is falling when they don't have all the information.