View Poll Results: Do you want PvP vendors in Shadowlands?

Voters
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  • Yes, Honor & Conquest vendors with no rating requirement for better conquest gear.

    25 38.46%
  • Yes, Honor & Conquest vendors with rating requirement for better conquest gear.

    29 44.62%
  • Yes, Honor vendors with rating requirement for better gear.

    5 7.69%
  • Yes, but in a different way.

    4 6.15%
  • No

    2 3.08%
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  1. #21
    Field Marshal
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    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    I rly dont recall people complaining about resilience,but maybe i lived in a bubble,i do ''kinda'' see why they took away the good raid gear giving advantage in pvp,people did moan about stuff like shadowmourn or double op dps trinkets for humans,i played 3v3 with shadow priest and lock both humans with the icc trinkets,and they just melted faced with those,killing healers in one cc chain if lucky
    I loved resilience, do we actually have a post of why it was removed? also shadowplay was cool when locks and priest actually dotted everone to death.

    Also remember TSG with double Shadowmourn?

    Edit: i just remembered Beast cleave, Legendary TSG, Wizard cleave, RMP, Turbo, Jungle, Volcano, double ret (lol), Thunder, Kitty, Hunt/Ret...

    man everything was playable and fun, one shot but fun.
    Last edited by Alexplode; 2019-11-06 at 05:12 PM.

  2. #22
    With Blizzard not really commenting on the entire loot situation, they are probably not going to return.
    Why? Because their original reasoning that "you can't buy PvE gear off a vendor" is still true and seemingly doesn't change in Shadowlands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexplode View Post
    I loved resilience, do we actually have a post of why it was removed?
    Blizzard wanted to make things more accessible and thus decided to ditch Resilience entirely, as they developed the tech (or further committed to it) to balance spells / specs individually depending on PvP, thus Resilience kinda became pointless, as it was originally introduced as a bandaid fix to balance PvE and PvP seperately from each other (=reduce the overall amount of burst happening in PvP).
    But because PvE gear was still in terms of raw output very often superior, they had to constantly reiterate on the system to fix that.

    After all, PvP gear was worse than equivalent PvE gear and vice versa for the respective modes, thus having full PvP rather terrible for PvE and full PvE generally (altough i'm not going over every exception here) worse in PvP.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2019-11-06 at 09:16 PM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexplode View Post
    I loved resilience, do we actually have a post of why it was removed? also shadowplay was cool when locks and priest actually dotted everone to death.

    Also remember TSG with double Shadowmourn?

    Edit: i just remembered Beast cleave, Legendary TSG, Wizard cleave, RMP, Turbo, Jungle, Volcano, double ret (lol), Thunder, Kitty, Hunt/Ret...

    man everything was playable and fun, one shot but fun.
    the thing i liked most about that setup was that all 3 of us had dispels,you couldnt even cc well against it

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Ah, now that you mentioned it, the Ashran thing really bothered me back then as well. But I think the ilvl scaling when in PvP worked better than PvP-Power/-Resilience.
    Well, it worked well enough, but a big reason was because PvE trinkets / legendaries were nerfed on Bgs/Arenas (Trinkets lasted twice as long or proc'ed twice as much with half of the effect to control burst and legendaries did not proc at all). On World PvP a full Heroic geared character had advantage against a full PvP geared character.
    I personally would rather PvP stats were buffed to be more valuable than primary stats on PvP, not gemming PvP status for PvP was quite weird.

    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    personaly i feel wrath time was best,i liked resilience more than pvp power,and the higher rating needed just makes sense,also being able to use some rly good raid gear in pvp I always felt was just a good design choice,had the most fun in arenas in those days as a holy pala with low resilience but huge haste and crit chances,also a bunch of armor pen on warrior
    Again, I will disagree. Don't get me wrong, I love WotLK gameplay and class design (possibly the best we had so far), but I recently played quite a lot on a WotLK server and the problem begins once people get legendaries and 25m ICC heroic trinkets. The game gets insanely bursty and unbalanced (not many classes / specs can't fight back against shadowmourne / heroic deathbringer's will Warrior).

    I also remember Legendary daggers / Vial of Shadows rogue on Cata and it was not pretty, IIRC 48 out of top 100 teams where RMP or RLS.

    On MoP system, PvE gear did have its place, namely world PvP. Timeless Island player hunting was pretty fun and a great place for me to use my legendary cloak <3.
    Last edited by Knolan; 2019-11-07 at 12:01 PM.
    I may not be an overachiever, but my Druid is richer than half of Venezuela.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Knolan View Post
    Well, it worked well enough, but a big reason was because PvE trinkets / legendaries were nerfed on Bgs/Arenas (Trinkets lasted twice as long or proc'ed twice as much with half of the effect to control burst and legendaries did not proc at all). On World PvP a full Heroic geared character had advantage against a full PvP geared character.
    I personally would rather PvP stats were buffed to be more valuable than primary stats on PvP, not gemming PvP status for PvP was quite weird.



    Again, I will disagree. Don't get me wrong, I love WotLK gameplay and class design (possibly the best we had so far), but I recently played quite a lot on a WotLK server and the problem begins once people get legendaries and 25m ICC heroic trinkets. The game gets insanely bursty and unbalanced (not many classes / specs can't fight back against shadowmourne / heroic deathbringer's will Warrior).

    I also remember Legendary daggers / Vial of Shadows rogue on Cata and it was not pretty, IIRC 48 out of top 100 teams where RMP or RLS.

    On MoP system, PvE gear did have its place, namely world PvP. Timeless Island player hunting was pretty fun and a great place for me to use my legendary cloak <3.
    Oh I dont disagree,in cata it was actualy a very very extreme issue when 4.3 launched,they had to nerf the rogue dragon soul trash trinket like -x4 times dmg in pvp,i remember rogues that couldnt get 1.8k in 3's managed to get their 2.3k tabards until that trinket got nerfed

  6. #26
    The Lightbringer docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Yeah vendors should come back, that's obvious. Don't lock pieces behind rating, respect people who don't like everything that goes into getting high rating in arenas and RBGs. Getting high rating should still give throughput rewards. Elite gear should be available for purchase somewhere around 2.2k and should have a slightly higher ilvl than conquest gear. Higher ratings should have a higher weekly conquest cap so those players gear faster.

    The gear itself should be like in WoD. honor = normal ilvl outside PvP, heroic ilvl in PvP. conquest = heroic ilvl outside PvP, mythic ilvl in PvP.
    Last edited by docterfreeze; 2019-11-08 at 12:23 AM.

  7. #27
    Looking at what I would get when I cap out got me a little excited was thinking finally getting something that I need. Notorious Gladiator’s Ring I was like yes log on my mage to make enchant send to my Warr put the enchant on and try to equip it. got cannot equip more than one of those :face_with_symbols_over_mouth: vendors would make so I could swap it for something that I need.

    We really never got any update for PVP give us vendors back stop with this BS.

  8. #28
    There's no other option than
    Yes, Honor & Conquest vendors with rating requirement for better conquest gear.

    Everything else is wrong.

  9. #29
    Yeah removing rating requirements would be the end of competitive PvP.

    TBC system was good for me. Most of the gear (80%) you got was gated behind arena rating, and also required a moderate grind (couple days per piece depending on how much life you had) to get. A few pieces of gear (trinkets and cloaks iirc, and maybe other bits of gear) didn't have this rating requirement, but the grind to get them was much longer if you were lower rated.

    Pretty perfect system if you ask me. This was in late TBC so maybe it differed from the start, I think the non-rated items they added later. There was pretty much always something to work towards though, if like me you were stuck at tier 2 PvP you could choose to do some arena and try to get rating, or grind it out for the non rated trinkets and stuff. Every gear upgrade buffed your stats and also your resilience making it easier to climb rating/ do better in casual PvP.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexplode View Post
    Yes, Honor & Conquest vendors with no rating requirement for better conquest gear.

    Why voting for no rating? L2P please? Getting mid-high rated and showing off your high rated gear (Elite sets) in bgs, duels and world pvp is very satisfactory also intimidating players was fun.
    Thats what your enchant was for. Cosmetic rewards for high rating is great, power increase is not.

    The MoP/WoD system was perfect imo.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Riistov View Post
    Thats what your enchant was for. Cosmetic rewards for high rating is great, power increase is not.

    The MoP/WoD system was perfect imo.
    So using your logic. Better gear in higher difficulty raids and m+ is bad? Mythic raider should have same gear as lfr player?

    Be real. Higher rated PvP players should get better gear than lower rated ones. Same power increase as in PvE (raids,m+) for different difficulties. The important thing is to tune the ilvl properly. So the rewards from different difficulties from PvE(raids,m+) and PvP are proportional. And not too easy to get good gear from in some bracket(looking at you m+ , but thats mainly because titanforging).

  12. #32
    I agree on the first 2 suggestions, altho I would really hope not to see too much differences in gear based on rating.
    The simple fact is that this would only widen the gap between 'high rated' and lower rated people.

    I think a good system could be a small ilvl difference on weaps and maybe a pvp trinket, but really something that doesn't scale as much and doesn't make as much difference on loot as it does now. the reason for this is that there still are more casual pvp'ers who want to improve and climb the ladders, but the more the season progresses the bigger ilvl gap this would cause, thus making it harder further down the line. Sure there will be some rating inflation, yet I'm thinking in terms of participation. E.g. someone only joining in halfway through a season etc.

    Defo, defo, defo need vendors back and defo need a counterbalance for pve gear in pvp and pvp gear in pve. Make it still useable, yes, but sub-optimal if the gear is not for the intended segment of the game.

    At the same time, similar to the socket system they seem to be introducing in 8.3, it could work if there is a way to get your ilvl on par with higher ratings, but then make it so it requires time and effort and the higher rating peeps just get stuff a bit faster.

    My 2cents

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Cofic View Post
    So using your logic. Better gear in higher difficulty raids and m+ is bad? Mythic raider should have same gear as lfr player?

    Be real. Higher rated PvP players should get better gear than lower rated ones.
    Get real yourself. PvP and PvE are not the same thing. Stop trying to apply PvE logic to PvP and vice versa.

    In competitive PvP, the drive is to beat your opponent because you are the better player, not because you outgear them. This does not apply in PvE because PvE is neither competitive nor is there anyone on the other side (NPC's). The drive in PvE is completely different, and thus the reward structure can and should be completely different from competitive PvP.

    Stop making a fool of yourself.

  14. #34
    They need to rescale rewards for sure at least, it’s absolutely ludicrous that a +10 mythic + gives the same rewards as gladiator rated arena.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by RelaZ View Post
    Get real yourself. PvP and PvE are not the same thing. Stop trying to apply PvE logic to PvP and vice versa.

    In competitive PvP, the drive is to beat your opponent because you are the better player, not because you outgear them. This does not apply in PvE because PvE is neither competitive nor is there anyone on the other side (NPC's). The drive in PvE is completely different, and thus the reward structure can and should be completely different from competitive PvP.

    Stop making a fool of yourself.
    The game consists of 2 parts PvE and PvP. And the gear from each can be used in both of them. So yes the logic should be applied, while having both in mind. Also wow is a MMORPG...which in it self has a progression system, one of which is gearing. So yes the logic does apply, like it always had and still does. PvE gearing logic applied to PvP already exists in the game, and the devs talked about it multiple time. So you get real.

    The discussion in this thread is about bettering the current pvp gearing. And moving from a random box reward with random loot rng progression to a better one. Like the old vendors or some new system.

    PvE isnt competitive? LOL. just look at all the websites for rankings wowprogress, raider.io, warcraftlogs...etc. Then you have the world 1st race, mdi, etc. You are the one making a fool out of yourself, while trying to talk shit...actually pathetic.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    They need to rescale rewards for sure at least, it’s absolutely ludicrous that a +10 mythic + gives the same rewards as gladiator rated arena.
    Yeah, but i believe that's intentional.
    I think Blizzard wants you to use the "same gear" everywhere, but also doesn't want to make PvP too rewarding so people do not feel "forced" to do it.

    However, doesn't change the fact that PvP gearing is currently completely dysfunctional in comparison to other game modes.
    On top of that, M+ as a whole is totally overrewarding in comparison to the skill / organization requirements that other game modes have.

    Unless you're a Mythic raider, you can't pass over M+, even there M+ has become essential during the first Mythic week to get all pieces up to Heroic Ilvl.

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