Well, it worked well enough, but a big reason was because PvE trinkets / legendaries were nerfed on Bgs/Arenas (Trinkets lasted twice as long or proc'ed twice as much with half of the effect to control burst and legendaries did not proc at all). On World PvP a full Heroic geared character had advantage against a full PvP geared character.
I personally would rather PvP stats were buffed to be more valuable than primary stats on PvP, not gemming PvP status for PvP was quite weird.
Again, I will disagree. Don't get me wrong, I love WotLK gameplay and class design (possibly the best we had so far), but I recently played quite a lot on a WotLK server and the problem begins once people get legendaries and 25m ICC heroic trinkets. The game gets insanely bursty and unbalanced (not many classes / specs can't fight back against shadowmourne / heroic deathbringer's will Warrior).
I also remember Legendary daggers / Vial of Shadows rogue on Cata and it was not pretty, IIRC 48 out of top 100 teams where RMP or RLS.
On MoP system, PvE gear did have its place, namely world PvP. Timeless Island player hunting was pretty fun and a great place for me to use my legendary cloak <3.
Last edited by Knolan; 2019-11-07 at 12:01 PM.
I may not be an overachiever, but my Druid is richer than half of Venezuela.
Oh I dont disagree,in cata it was actualy a very very extreme issue when 4.3 launched,they had to nerf the rogue dragon soul trash trinket like -x4 times dmg in pvp,i remember rogues that couldnt get 1.8k in 3's managed to get their 2.3k tabards until that trinket got nerfed
Yeah vendors should come back, that's obvious. Don't lock pieces behind rating, respect people who don't like everything that goes into getting high rating in arenas and RBGs. Getting high rating should still give throughput rewards. Elite gear should be available for purchase somewhere around 2.2k and should have a slightly higher ilvl than conquest gear. Higher ratings should have a higher weekly conquest cap so those players gear faster.
The gear itself should be like in WoD. honor = normal ilvl outside PvP, heroic ilvl in PvP. conquest = heroic ilvl outside PvP, mythic ilvl in PvP.
Last edited by docterfreeze; 2019-11-08 at 12:23 AM.
Looking at what I would get when I cap out got me a little excited was thinking finally getting something that I need. Notorious Gladiator’s Ring I was like yes log on my mage to make enchant send to my Warr put the enchant on and try to equip it. got cannot equip more than one of those :face_with_symbols_over_mouth: vendors would make so I could swap it for something that I need.
We really never got any update for PVP give us vendors back stop with this BS.
There's no other option than
Yes, Honor & Conquest vendors with rating requirement for better conquest gear.
Everything else is wrong.
Yeah removing rating requirements would be the end of competitive PvP.
TBC system was good for me. Most of the gear (80%) you got was gated behind arena rating, and also required a moderate grind (couple days per piece depending on how much life you had) to get. A few pieces of gear (trinkets and cloaks iirc, and maybe other bits of gear) didn't have this rating requirement, but the grind to get them was much longer if you were lower rated.
Pretty perfect system if you ask me. This was in late TBC so maybe it differed from the start, I think the non-rated items they added later. There was pretty much always something to work towards though, if like me you were stuck at tier 2 PvP you could choose to do some arena and try to get rating, or grind it out for the non rated trinkets and stuff. Every gear upgrade buffed your stats and also your resilience making it easier to climb rating/ do better in casual PvP.
So using your logic. Better gear in higher difficulty raids and m+ is bad? Mythic raider should have same gear as lfr player?
Be real. Higher rated PvP players should get better gear than lower rated ones. Same power increase as in PvE (raids,m+) for different difficulties. The important thing is to tune the ilvl properly. So the rewards from different difficulties from PvE(raids,m+) and PvP are proportional. And not too easy to get good gear from in some bracket(looking at you m+ , but thats mainly because titanforging).
I agree on the first 2 suggestions, altho I would really hope not to see too much differences in gear based on rating.
The simple fact is that this would only widen the gap between 'high rated' and lower rated people.
I think a good system could be a small ilvl difference on weaps and maybe a pvp trinket, but really something that doesn't scale as much and doesn't make as much difference on loot as it does now. the reason for this is that there still are more casual pvp'ers who want to improve and climb the ladders, but the more the season progresses the bigger ilvl gap this would cause, thus making it harder further down the line. Sure there will be some rating inflation, yet I'm thinking in terms of participation. E.g. someone only joining in halfway through a season etc.
Defo, defo, defo need vendors back and defo need a counterbalance for pve gear in pvp and pvp gear in pve. Make it still useable, yes, but sub-optimal if the gear is not for the intended segment of the game.
At the same time, similar to the socket system they seem to be introducing in 8.3, it could work if there is a way to get your ilvl on par with higher ratings, but then make it so it requires time and effort and the higher rating peeps just get stuff a bit faster.
My 2cents
Get real yourself. PvP and PvE are not the same thing. Stop trying to apply PvE logic to PvP and vice versa.
In competitive PvP, the drive is to beat your opponent because you are the better player, not because you outgear them. This does not apply in PvE because PvE is neither competitive nor is there anyone on the other side (NPC's). The drive in PvE is completely different, and thus the reward structure can and should be completely different from competitive PvP.
Stop making a fool of yourself.
They need to rescale rewards for sure at least, it’s absolutely ludicrous that a +10 mythic + gives the same rewards as gladiator rated arena.
The game consists of 2 parts PvE and PvP. And the gear from each can be used in both of them. So yes the logic should be applied, while having both in mind. Also wow is a MMORPG...which in it self has a progression system, one of which is gearing. So yes the logic does apply, like it always had and still does. PvE gearing logic applied to PvP already exists in the game, and the devs talked about it multiple time. So you get real.
The discussion in this thread is about bettering the current pvp gearing. And moving from a random box reward with random loot rng progression to a better one. Like the old vendors or some new system.
PvE isnt competitive? LOL. just look at all the websites for rankings wowprogress, raider.io, warcraftlogs...etc. Then you have the world 1st race, mdi, etc. You are the one making a fool out of yourself, while trying to talk shit...actually pathetic.
Yeah, but i believe that's intentional.
I think Blizzard wants you to use the "same gear" everywhere, but also doesn't want to make PvP too rewarding so people do not feel "forced" to do it.
However, doesn't change the fact that PvP gearing is currently completely dysfunctional in comparison to other game modes.
On top of that, M+ as a whole is totally overrewarding in comparison to the skill / organization requirements that other game modes have.
Unless you're a Mythic raider, you can't pass over M+, even there M+ has become essential during the first Mythic week to get all pieces up to Heroic Ilvl.
For the longest time this was not the case. PvP gear had PvP only stats (PvP ilvls or resilience/PvP power).
Wrong. For at least 3 expansions this was not the case as all PvP gear was available to all PvPers regardless of rating, or there was heavy scaling involved which minified the value of better gear. PvPers loved those systems (especially WoD/late MoP). PvPers don't care that "hurr durr but iiiiiits annnnnnnnn RPG". PvPers want fair and competitive matches. Again - you can't apply the same design principles to PvP and PvE, because the goals and of the two aspects are too different. With PvP being competitive and thus fairness mattering, whereas PvE is not competitive (it's a static boss on the other side) and thus fairness of gear doesn't matter.
Yeah, and since downgrading the gearing system (Legion and BfA) the game has lost almost its entire PvP playerbase. Sounds like great logic to me
Don't put words in my mouth. I never said I was against removing RNG loot. I said I was against the idea that just because you're higher rating you should have better gear. I am however also against the idea that PvE gear should be viable in PvP and vice versa.
Well, that's a strawman if I've ever seen one. PvE is competitive for the 0.1%, i.e. the people trying for world firsts, r1 logs and going to MDI. The rest don't care, they just want to clear the raids/m+, and eventually, due to nerfs and gear upgrades, they do. That's not competitive. Don't try to strawman it even more. You're just making a fool out of yourself.
- - - Updated - - -
Completely right. This here is why you can never make PvP and PvE gear one and the same (equally viable in both settings), and the main reason why the current system is complete crap. Blizzard will never make PvP equally rewarding as PvE in terms of high end gear rewards (it's happened a few times that PvP gear > PvE gear at the entry ilvls, but never at end game max ilvls). This means that PvPers will be forced into PvE because one of the following is always true:
1) PvE content rewarding good gear is easier than equivalent PvP content (e.g. M+ compared to 2.4K).
2) PvE content rewards more gear (faster) than equivalent PvP content.
3) Gear from PvE content always has new and ridiculous OP item effects and/or stat itemization making them far superior to gear from PvP content.
@RelaZ
I see that you are being delusional and have a really hard time grasping the reality of things. I also see that your motives and the content of your posts have nothing constructive in them about the issue at hand. So i am not gonna waste my time trying to argue or try to explain some of the things i already did.
Of course we need a rating requirement as well. Imagine some 1200 scrub being able to buy the glad weapon. nothx
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