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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    I don't care, I don't play the game to placate your opinion. I play it according to my preference. I had two full expansions of the class design I loved, I hope it really ate at your craw because I enjoyed every second of my poisonous class design.

    #36microspecs
    Yeah because your vision of class design has worked out so well and these past expansions are clearly remembered as the pinnacle of class design for all, right?

    People have been begging to go back to pre-Legion states for various specs since Legion launched. We are finally making steps to undo everything that went wrong and you are doubling down on the absolute worst class design has had to offer in the past 5 years. Even Blizzard is now moving on, at least to some extent.

  2. #142
    Immortal Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renatompassos View Post
    I wouldn ‘t be so certain of Survival not being reverted to ranged. It goes completely in line with my idea of this whole “fixing” or getting back to class fantasy over spec fantasy.

    Notice how they didn’t get into details on class changes and overhauls, because of how polemic that is and has always been.

    Acknowledging for 2 expansions in a row the utter failure I think of melee survival, how hunters are locked between only 2 real specs I like and how badly the game needs popular changes, I really wouldn’t be surprised with this great news: ranged Survival back to what I think is glory!

    Also, ranged DK (renamed to Necromancer spec, replacing Unholy) and ranged rogue (replacing Sub). I wonder how would the community receive that...I complain about class identity and how Survival being melee is wrong but I want them to change melee specs in ranged specs because that totally isn't hypocritical right?
    Fixed it for you!
    Hope, the greatest power of all!

    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  3. #143
    Survival Hunter should be more like assassin rogue , the description literally says animal Poisons and traps

    its laughable that the only " animal poison " we use is serpent sting and apparently the description gives off the impression we have a wide range of poisons

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    Yeah because your vision of class design has worked out so well and these past expansions are clearly remembered as the pinnacle of class design for all, right?

    People have been begging to go back to pre-Legion states for various specs since Legion launched. We are finally making steps to undo everything that went wrong and you are doubling down on the absolute worst class design has had to offer in the past 5 years. Even Blizzard is now moving on, at least to some extent.
    My vision or Blizzard's vision? Get a clue and go back to your echo chamber. "We" are not doing anything, class design is cyclical. Pruning was required to both introduce Demon Hunters and implement Legion Artifact weapons and its system. I enjoyed it, I'm not going to pretend I didn't. I enjoyed the hell out of it. There is no more discussion to have between you and me since it's blatantly obvious from seeing you banter with others here that you cannot have a civil debate without attacking people's opinions.
    Last edited by Kyphael; 2020-02-13 at 04:28 PM.

  5. #145
    BFA survival is a complete mess. Sure maybe it feels the most fun of the 3 but that does not make it a good spec. For one it has too many borrowed traits from BM that just muddy the theme they were going for. Kill Command being a filler on one spec vs a hard hitting signature ability of another is just retarded. What if aff locks shot weak little chaos bolts between dots? Would be dumb as hell just like this spec.

    Also shooting a little crossbow thats a copy paste animation of pistol shot, along with throwing a fucking grenade in melee range is mega lame. Doesn't even feel like a hunter, feels like a bad attempt at some tinker spec.

    I'll say I honestly don't care what happens to SV anymore. It's clear with MM that if they brought ranged SV back it would be a gutted shell of it's former glory. I also don't care if they delete melee from the class because it has added nothing of value in the last 4 years.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Pruning was required to both introduce Demon Hunters and implement Legion Artifact weapons and its system. I enjoyed it, I'm not going to pretend I didn't. I enjoyed the hell out of it.
    Pruning is easily the worst systematic decision they made. There's barely anyone who actively enjoys having their abilities taken away from them. Meanwhile it didnt accomplish anything of note. As wow is a repeatative game, having the classes this pruned means the class itself wont keep your interest for long, nor does the content during farm. Reasonable exceptions exist.
    Also pruning wasn't required, at least not the pruning we've experienced. Your argument doesn't make any sense either, legion was the second round of pruning.

    Also while on the subject, its shocking how the game play is this pruned (this simplified really), but the theoretical basis has become this complicated. The casuals have it worse now. All the preperation you put into gear/essences/talents etc is 10 times more important nowadays.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    Your personal preference is bad. I can only hope that Blizzard doubles down on their efforts to undo pruning and opinions like yours fall by the wayside. If things went your way class design would get even worse. Your ideas are poison.
    How can you call me patronizing and then write this to another person 5 minutes after?! The way you communicate with people is disgusting. Your behavior in this forum is completely delusional and hypocritical. The only toxic behavior here is yours when you clearly are not able to participate in a civil debate and respect that other people don’t have the same preferences as you. Your behavior is embarrassing.

  8. #148
    The Lightbringer Monster Hunter's Avatar
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    I don't think any one should get there hopes up for class changes in SL.

    The two statements from blizz have been.

    To move away from sweeping class changes each expansion.

    And

    Focus more on class than individual spec.

    What that tells me is all we are gonna get is some half assed old abilitys back no one used all that much but with the same crappy spec focused talent systems we have had since cata. And that's it.

    Blizz can't properly move back to class based fantasy with the current talent system, and I can't see them Finaly admitting the cata changes were a mistake and moving back to a tree structure that let's you felxibly pick from between specs to properly customise and build out that class fantasy just with the abilities instead of +1agi things. So with doing it properly off the table, half assed is the likely outcome.
    stuck in the D2:shadow keep Que....please send help!

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    I don't think any one should get there hopes up for class changes in SL.

    The two statements from blizz have been.

    To move away from sweeping class changes each expansion.

    And

    Focus more on class than individual spec.

    What that tells me is all we are gonna get is some half assed old abilitys back no one used all that much but with the same crappy spec focused talent systems we have had since cata. And that's it.

    Blizz can't properly move back to class based fantasy with the current talent system, and I can't see them Finaly admitting the cata changes were a mistake and moving back to a tree structure that let's you felxibly pick from between specs to properly customise and build out that class fantasy just with the abilities instead of +1agi things. So with doing it properly off the table, half assed is the likely outcome.
    We know they can design great class mechanics judging by past iterations across all their games.

    But also judging by the universally disliked specs in BfA we have a good reason to be skeptical.

    I would argue Legion classes were great towards the end when you had all legendaries and artifacts maxed out. And what made it cool for me wasn't the return of outdated clunky abilities but the new ones and altering what we already had.

    So far Shadowlands promises the return of old abilities and not major class changes?! How do you bring old abilities back without overhauls? All this says to me is: cluttered outdated design.

    Got Classic for that sort of thing. I would prefer WoW 2020 to be modern and dynamic. Every other RPG and MMO got more original abilities and class mechanics. They have to step up their game.

  10. #150
    The Lightbringer Monster Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpcat View Post
    We know they can design great class mechanics judging by past iterations across all their games.

    But also judging by the universally disliked specs in BfA we have a good reason to be skeptical.

    I would argue Legion classes were great towards the end when you had all legendaries and artifacts maxed out. And what made it cool for me wasn't the return of outdated clunky abilities but the new ones and altering what we already had.

    So far Shadowlands promises the return of old abilities and not major class changes?! How do you bring old abilities back without overhauls? All this says to me is: cluttered outdated design.

    Got Classic for that sort of thing. I would prefer WoW 2020 to be modern and dynamic. Every other RPG and MMO got more original abilities and class mechanics. They have to step up their game.
    Competing philosophys.

    Blizzard (and many other games company's) sufferers from a bunch of similar problem's political party's often do in that they have a bunch of individual goals and philosophys to achieve those goals that often can have negative effects on each other and thus cause the whole to fail, this mostly becomes toxic when those in positions of direction or stubbornly tied to those philosophys either by there want to preserve there reputation or emotive reasoning.

    Blizz have the goals of:

    Try to get as close to perfect class as possible for the pvp players and the high end raiders.

    Make all playstyles viable in some way

    Make the game accessible in a way that you can't screw up to badly

    But

    Allow people to customize there chars ability and power.

    Have openness to excel at the top

    Keep thing fresh for people to keep them engaged.

    These goals and the philosophy to achieve them arn't compatible, freedom comes at the cost of balance, and the higher risk of failure.

    Blizzards major problem has been they have moved back and forth on these, but have stuck rigidly to the goals dispite the reality always being that every one is dissatisfied. And we now hae a game where choice, player agency and uniqueness is much more limited than original wow, but the promised balance it would bring is still not near where the people who care about that want.

    Now we have blizz want a focus back on class not spec.

    But that won't happen because blizz also want every one to be viable and balanced which is the reason for the simplistic talents system and spec based focus.

    You can't have both, so what we will get is neither, something in between that satisfies no one.
    stuck in the D2:shadow keep Que....please send help!

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    I don't think any one should get there hopes up for class changes in SL.

    The two statements from blizz have been.

    To move away from sweeping class changes each expansion.
    the problem i have with this is they choose to stop making changes when we're still stuck with the gutted legion class design. the game really needs big overhauls to be engaging again. so many specs just feel like copy pasted mechanics.

  12. #152
    The Lightbringer Monster Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    the problem i have with this is they choose to stop making changes when we're still stuck with the gutted legion class design. the game really needs big overhauls to be engaging again. so many specs just feel like copy pasted mechanics.
    Yea. Though it's worth noting when I say changes I mean "class" changes. We're still gonna lose all our rent-a-talents, Azerite and essences, so how our classes play and what we have on top will change to what ever Shadowlands rent-a-talents are. But our base classes will still be the pile of dog shite they were post legion change and as such we will again see the dramatic power drop we complained about during bfa leveling.

    The "return to class" will be little more than a few old minimal use abilities comming back and then some Azerite shit being thrown into the talent system to replace any gaps they left. You can't do any real meaningful form of return to class with the current post cata spec/talent system, so my hopes arn't high in this aspect of Shadowlands. Still excited to see the new land and see torgast and see how the jailor Story unfolds, but the classes and changes look like a flop from the get go.
    stuck in the D2:shadow keep Que....please send help!

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