Hunter in Shadowlands

[Eapoe]

Frankly, I miss the WOTLK survival hunter, with black arrow, explosive shot, armor pen, etc. those were the best of times for me as a hunter.

Pretty sure with enough armor pen you would go MM. ArP was actually not that good of a stat for SV as your only physical attack were white hits. It’s been years so I could be mistaken.
That aside, I miss old SV. I enjoy new SV, but I’d rather Blizzard just made a 4th spec instead.

[Skorpionss]

Pretty sure with enough armor pen you would go MM. ArP was actually not that good of a stat for SV as your only physical attack were white hits. It’s been years so I could be mistaken.
That aside, I miss old SV. I enjoy new SV, but I’d rather Blizzard just made a 4th spec instead.

Explosive was also physical, and yeah MM was slightly better but I still preferred SV because I liked the mobility it offered, whereas MM was more turret style as far as i remember.

[KrayZ33]

Pretty sure Explosive Shot was listed as Fire Damage in WotLK
Thus it's considered spell damage an damage wasn't reduced by enemy armor,

[DazManianDevil]

Pretty sure Explosive Shot was listed as Fire Damage in WotLK
Thus it's considered spell damage an damage wasn't reduced by enemy armor,

Correct, however iirc MM wasn't better than Surv until you had over 50% raw ArP and a Grim Toll from Naxx for proc'd ArP cap, as top logs for TogC included SV hunters. Explosive shot was all about raw AP, I fondly remember duel wielding with +65 AP enchants for this very reason.
I think his previous post was more along the lines of "During wrath we had cooler stats" which I concur with.
At least we don't have Expertise anymore, that expansion is when my Hunter gathered the most dust.

[FurryRedVixen]

In my honest opinion the hunter specs, names and ideals are all wrong from the start. Sure the spirit is there, the idea, but they executed it like a dang blind deaf marmot playing red light green light. Heres how its bad and how to make it more engaging with some references that probably 90% of us would know and get.

First and for most BeastMaster Hunters: This kit needed to combine what survival currently has with some old BM skills and things from a few other sources.

Main draw from this is the Beast Master movie. Look it up if you have not. Its really enjoyable older movie, at least to me. The Protagonist uses animals to fight with and fight for, to help with sticky situations and to see things that he would not normally be able to see. Using that as in idea lets combine other aspects of this theme seen in other games and media now.

From Warhammer Age of Reckoning the White Lion Class/Job they had. We have seen some of this nice synchronization and combination in some of the Survival traits and skills but needs more. The ability to use your pet as a tank and distraction or you be the the distraction to have it do special things, status affects, stuns etc. this is how i likened the idea of the BM hunter. Short range, strong melee dps with good maneuverability with trips and blinds and status affects. Even debuffs. Use of the animal aspects but in a group/raid way, haste aura etc.

With Survival, i see this as the old Arnold Schwarzenegger from Predator and some Stallone from the Rambo series.

Traps, explosions, disorientates, slows, maybe even deploy able turrets or such. The pet takes a side step in this spec, not major not minor just there. Survival should be, about survival. Damage decrease, resists, etc. Good cool downs to help raids and groups with. Utility. In short, the premier aoe spec. Imagine a buff gnome looking like rambo while screwing those explosive arrow heads rambo made from grenades.

Marksman is, well is Marksman. Inspiration is basically from most of the modern day sniper movies and the idea of the lone wolf soldier.

This spec should pretty much sell itself. Long range, hard hitting, accurate. This spec should be about doing damage, period. With the possibility of some slight status effects, daze, disarm, slow movement, these explained from called shots like modern day marksmen do from shooting weapons out of someones hand to crippling/wounding. Bleeds would be a big thing for this as well, maybe debuffing of armour. This is not a aoe spec, may have aoe with it but not centered with it, this is about buffing self and doing dmg. Very light to no use of pet at all.

These are just really rough ideas of how id like to see hunter going with real themes and an idea of class fantasy.

[Theangryone]

Survival and rapid fire are fine, the only thing I want for Shadowlands is barrage gone and replaced with volley.

[Bepples]

Nah I love hunter. BM is just a brain dead spec. I cannot change that fact

Sounds like you prefer melee SV because melee has to deal with mechanics less TBH.

[Kaver]

Sounds like you prefer melee SV because melee has to deal with mechanics less TBH.

BM playstyle:

1) Press barbed shot when the big weakaura in the middle of your screen tells you to (IQ required = 50+)

2) Refrain yourself from spamming cobra shot (IQ required = 30+)

3) Try not to fall asleep because it is so boring (IQ required = below 90.. If you have an IQ above 90 you will most likely fall asleep from playing BM)


90% of all mechanics in m+ happen in melee range.

It is a big advantage to play ranged in raids. Especially if you have full mobility at the same time. Which “ranged specific” mechanics do EP have?

BM is a brain dead “spec” and melee SV sucks

[Sondrelk]

Personally i always felt that the WoD incarnation of MM was the one that got the closest to the ideal spec.

It allowed you to move and attack, had a nice variance of different talents and abilities that allowed you to either go heavy AoE or focus on MMs strength of burst single target.
The mastery was definitely the sticking point, but even then it was still a good idea, just not implemented great. It heavily favored a playstyle of finding a good spot and standing still, which was definitely a problem with bosses that required constant movement, but pretty great for bosses that required short burts of movement.

All in all i feel that the only thing WoD MM needed to be great was a tiny pruning of abilities with odd flavor, like the glaive throwing. And possibly either a different way to activate sniper training or an instacast ability similar in function to Mage blink in that it allows you extra burts of either sniper training while moving, or sniper training instantly activating while standing still.

[Danwo]

All I want is Multi dot ability.

[ymn]

They really need to capture the "archer" feel of the class - Marksman is a mess of procs without utility. BM is outright "keep buff up" type of spec, which is utterly bad for a pet-based spec, Survival is at least somewhat fun, but it's melee so it doesn't hold a candle to Rogues, Fury Warriors, DHs and alike.

[riptor7364]

The only spec I feel Blizzard was always on the money with, is BM. Beast Mastery is the only spec where they capture the feeling of what that spec should be. You and your pet brawling with people, where every 2 minutes you both get really pissed off and do a ton of damage. Throw in a little pet utility, and you got a perfect spec.

MM.. I've never been interested in this spec, personally. It's always been the "stand there and shoot stuff" spec, which was perfect for raiding I guess. I always liked the idea of this spec for pvp heavily focusing on that aimed shot opener. Ambushing people with top heavy damage. Can't say if this is what it still is, but it was at one point..

SV is the elephant in the room for me. This spec has been redesigned so many god damn times.. I don't think Blizzard even knows what this spec is supposed to be, and I don't think the players do either.

I personally HATE the new SV design. I can't stand it. Tried it twice, refuse to go anywhere near it again.. It doesn't feel like Hunter, at all for me, and it's a mystery to me why people like this spec. It's like we already had BM as this close/mid range "brawling" spec, we didn't need another one..

What I would like to see for Shadowlands, is a rework of SV, where the spec has something more akin to how UH DK works, in that with DK you festering strike to create stacks on target, and then you spend those stacks with an ability, and depending on the ability, you either do additional damage with your primary attack, or you do something like apocalypse.. a special ability only available when you stack those resources.

A mechanic like this for SV, with both ranged and melee abilities, is something I would love to see, personally.. where you start the fight out ranged, work toward stacking your target with those debuffs, and then the dynamics of the fight change depending on how/where you want to take the fight, or who you're fighting..

[Bepples]

SV is the elephant in the room for me. This spec has been redesigned so many god damn times.. I don't think Blizzard even knows what this spec is supposed to be, and I don't think the players do either.

I personally HATE the new SV design. I can't stand it. Tried it twice, refuse to go anywhere near it again.. It doesn't feel like Hunter, at all for me, and it's a mystery to me why people like this spec. It's like we already had BM as this close/mid range "brawling" spec, we didn't need another one..

What I would like to see for Shadowlands, is a rework of SV, where the spec has something more akin to how UH DK works, in that with DK you festering strike to create stacks on target, and then you spend those stacks with an ability, and depending on the ability, you either do additional damage with your primary attack, or you do something like apocalypse.. a special ability only available when you stack those resources.

A mechanic like this for SV, with both ranged and melee abilities, is something I would love to see, personally.. where you start the fight out ranged, work toward stacking your target with those debuffs, and then the dynamics of the fight change depending on how/where you want to take the fight, or who you're fighting..

Most of the people who play SV depend it from a mechanics standpoint, where it's actually pretty strong. It has a well-flowing core rotation and good talent/azerite options. Of course, the identity is indeed a total mess and being melee to begin with is a) tacked on and doesn't fit the identity of the class or even the spec itself and b) makes the spec a non-option for the overwhelming majority of the class.

Some do defend it from an aesthetic point of view. Usually they say that whereas BM is a commander of beasts SV is a companion of beasts, fighting alongside the pet and coordinating with it rather than ordering it around. Personally I think this is incredibly weak and reaching logic. Like BM, the spec's primary pet-oriented attack is Kill Command. The cooldown is Coordinated Assault, but it doesn't really look or work significantly different from Bestial Wrath so the degree to which it conveys "companion rather than master" starts and ends at the name alone. Same goes for Spirit Bond, pretty much, which is especially egregious given it used to be a BM thing. It was a BM-only talent until MoP, a classwide talent until Legion, and then a BM artifact trait in Legion. Now it's SV's mastery? That doesn't make sense.

Plus, this excuse conveniently ignores the existence of Serpent Sting and Wildfire bomb; ironically the only truly unique and flavourful things belonging to the spec yet they don't fit a melee spec at all.

I don't think mirroring UH is the solution here. The constant reworking of Survival began with Legion. Contrary to popular belief, before that it had a stable identity and playstyle that lasted several expansions. One approach to SV has proven to work and that's the DoT-focused ranged spec from WotLK to WoD. Bring back that spec and double down on the DoT focus and give it real multidotting incentive, and this spec will stop being the high-maintenance headache with no coherent identity that attracts only the most niche of audiences.

[Maxilian]

As much as i love the new Survival, i'm going to be honest and say "The main reason why i went with Survival when i started with it in Legion, was for the transmogs, and god damn it, they look so damn cool!, also the gameplay is quite nice -it forces you to be quite involved in the fight to make sure things go as they are supposed to go"

[Pandragon]

I want BM to stay how it is with all instant casts and hunters go back to a 1 second GCD, so I have a ranged class I can play again. But I know it won't happen, just wishful thinking.

[riptor7364]

One approach to SV has proven to work and that's the DoT-focused ranged spec from WotLK to WoD. Bring back that spec and double down on the DoT focus and give it real multidotting incentive, and this spec will stop being the high-maintenance headache with no coherent identity that attracts only the most niche of audiences.

That is exactly what I played for years. Multi shot serpent sting, black arrow, each dot on explosive shot having a chance to crit, kill shot.. deterrence reflecting spells.. traps giving explosive shot 100% chance to proc, stacking on top of explosive shot procs from black arrow, so you get like 6 in a row..

^ This was SV at it's best, IMO. Sadly I don't see it returning with them going all in with the whole melee philosophy. Personally I think it completely ruined the spec. I would be a happy camper if they just reverted it back to what it was but I have a feeling they would likely want to keep some melee aspect of the spec to salvage the path they already went down.

[kieraTM]

I only wish for one thing.
Some sort of quiver model that we could transmog onto our back slot.

QFT /10char

[threads]

I personally HATE the new SV design. I can't stand it. Tried it twice, refuse to go anywhere near it again.. It doesn't feel like Hunter, at all for me, and it's a mystery to me why people like this spec. It's like we already had BM as this close/mid range "brawling" spec, we didn't need another one..

the fact that the average request from SV players is for dual wielding, when they only have 1 melee attack, should tell you enough. it's a niche spec for special snowflakes or RPers.

[dcc626]

Sign me up for the return of ranged Survival. Preferably in the form of a 4th spec option.

But yeah, I'll take it by reverting current SV back to ranged as well(provided that there's still some way to opt into the melee playstyle as well). If they can achieve this, then yes. Otherwise, go for the 4th spec route.

i have a feeling that survival will stay melee, but that could certainly change.

one thing im more sure of - nobody is getting 4th specs.

[Biomega]

one thing im more sure of - nobody is getting 4th specs.

Which is a big mistake imo, this would have been a very good time to spice up things after everyone kept complaining about specs in BFA. But I guess they're blinded by Classic's success and so they'd rather take steps back than forward. Who wants garbage like Hunter's Mark, really? As functional abilities? Give them tomes or glyphs or whatever to play with it but make the specs fun to play again. And a 4th spec definitely would not have hurt.