View Poll Results: Do you think Ion/devs understand their player base?

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  • Definitely!

    128 26.07%
  • They do, but not the amount I hope for.

    177 36.05%
  • Nope, definitely not.

    186 37.88%
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  1. #241
    I feel Blizz understands the casual playerbase WAY better than the MMO-Champion forums.

  2. #242
    the numbers are almost 30 30 30 ... thats insane.

  3. #243
    In this thread people who have no idea about corporate management and think a sample size of a couple thousand is the opinion of a couple of million

    I mean dude....MMO champion is essentially

    -Maybe at MOST 1000 people
    - Of which maybe 500 of them actively play wow
    - And likely only play with the english speaking playerbase
    - Who AT MOST know maybe 100 people on 1 server


    I mean that's why blizzard uses metrics...the human mind can't really comprehend the opinion of THAT many people

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    i don't think its possible for them to "understand" and listen the playerbase. Because 5 people can have 6 different opinions about the same subject. Fix this for person A, iss of person B. Make person B and A happy, piss off person C etc.
    True. People here don't get that. On a single thread here, actually every thread, there's at least 9-10 people with different opinions.
    You read all this different opinions, how are you able to decide what is the right thing to do?

  5. #245
    They understand, they just don't care.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by lachlol View Post
    1) I didn't hear that.

    2) I'm not sure whether cutting the size of raid zones is the way to save some dev's time, but the size of the zones or their numbers should be increased. So yeah, I'm here with you.
    LFR justifies the creation of more raid content when millions of players are able to see content. Only a few thousand people actually saw Kel'thuzad, but millions saw Deathwing. The reason Mists of Pandaria is starting with 18 bosses and adding larger raid tiers than we have had previously is because many players are going to see the raids through LFR.
    about half way down under
    Developer Interviews
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/content...e-Posts?page=2

    one of the quotes on it I could find about LFR and raids.

  7. #247
    I think the current devs are getting parts of the playerbase, predominantly the min-max oriented hardcore player audience and the part of the audience who is more into moba-and diablo 3-styled games, who like gameplay which is heavily into grinding and randomized loot with a limited amount of active player abilities and more into min-maxing. I think who they don't get are the more traditional rpg-elemented players and the casual-audiences. I mean, I myself have to say, that I kinda feel discouraged to get into endgame to begin with, because it comes off as too messy and bothersome, especially with the azerithe system which heavily determines the builds and playstyles I can play on the basis of randomized loot.

    I kind of prefered the Burning Crusade and on a different angle the wrath of the lichking kind of design. with Burning Crusade, it was in my opinion probably the strongest in terms of a clearly set rpg endgame progression system. I know where to start, with reputation vendors, normal dungeons for my max level gear, afterwards heroics, badges vendors and Karazhan to get me equipped into raiding and then progressing through the 25 Man endgame raids. For PVP, I knew I had to grind me honor points for my starter pvp gear and then start doing Arena to get me the non-ranked set first and then slowly progress through ranks for the current high end pvp gear.

    With Wotlk, it was rather similar but Blizzard skipped progressing through older raid tiers. Still, there was a clear path to go for me if I was max level and wanted to gear up. I started fo farm the normal emblems for pve starter gear and the weekly locked ones for current normal raid gear and it was friendlier for fast casual pve content, as I had the option of using the LFG for grinding heroics and with it being friendlier towards solo players without a dedicated raid guild to farm current content via pugs in normal mode, while heroic were theoretically more reserved towards static guild groups. It was easy, it had clearly set goals. Character progression was easy as well. You had your talent points through leveling which made your character stronger and unlocked powerful essential abilities for your spec while higher level gear as well as t-set bonuses gave your characters additional power. Now with azerithe gear, titanforging all of this min-maxing, I feel it kinda has become really too bothersome to get into all of it. I'm kinda afraid too try to seriously get into endgame pve content with this kind of system.

    I feel like Azerithe gear and essences even made it worse compared to Legion, where I at least knew that I simply had to grind up this system. Though I also have to say that with the artifacts, class design wasn't too bad and classes were generally fun to play once you unlocked more and more artifact traits. The problem was more, that this progression was fully tied into endgame content, with all classes being build around this weapons. If they had skipped the artifacts and simply made the traits part of the general leveling progress, leveling itself could have been fun as well, this way classes simply felt bad while leveling them as they lacked important passive and active abilities. And with BFA it got worse, since classes were barely changed but we were stripped of all the passive and active abilities which were essential for making the class fun and engaging to play. Blizzards biggest mistake was not to make the artifact traits simply traits you unlock while leveling and keep even during the new max level.

    Another problem, in my opinion, is that really lack any sense of progression in the game. Up until I think wotlk, you would simply unlock new abilities during leveling as well as gaining new rows on your talent tree, with the final one in many classes feeling like your definitive new Ultimate which makes you stronger. This kind of progression is just too rare while leveling and stopps fully at 100, you don't get new abililities and powers for your class during the current expansion and due to how scaling works, you don't feel stronger while fighting mobs up until a rather high item level, at max level you even feel weaker than before until you have gear. Before, every new level and every piece of loot made you feel stronger.

    I also miss the time where we had support heavy classes and I feel like they can be done in a holy trinity role based mmo. Final Fantasy does a rather devent job with them, classes are rated on both, their personal dps as well as the support skills and additional raid dps they bring to the group and I feel like WoW did during TBC a not so bad job at doing this as well, giving supportive hybrid classes tools that made them valuable for groups even if they bring in less personal dps than dedicated pure dps classes.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Yes, exactly. If you must define progress by the gear you're wearing, make that gear optimal for where you got it. Dungeon/raid gear should work best in dungeons and raids. World gear (like Benthic as one example) should be optimal in the world. Therefore there's no particular pressure to do mythic+ or raids if you don't want to and vice versa. Everyone gets taken care of. Gear attributes can bonus or turn off depending on where you are. There was a remarkable amount of dislike for the idea from people I thought would like it but that's fine. It's just fanfic-MMO-design. I still think it's a decent idea and reflects the fact that for many players the game has become somewhat binary. Most people would like to do one or the other and become irritated that they're forced at times to do both.

    Personal example: I love doing professions (even as bad as they currently are). It's irksome to go run mythic+ to get mats because the people I prefer to play with aren't always around to do mythic+. I see professions as largely a "world" thing so why can't I pick up my mats in the world? It's not like I'm making raid gear for anyone. It's more annoying than anything. Same thing a few expansions back about having to go into PVP areas to pick up mats when I don't enjoy PVP even a little bit. Blizzard could stop that shit right away and I wouldn't mind a bit.

    If anything, I think this is an area where developers don't have much of an understanding of how people like to play. If they did they would stop enticing people to do things they don't enjoy just to get a few bits of progression. Others can disagree and that's fine.
    Truthfully I feel like Benthic would have been perfect if sockets weren't a thing. They're on par to Mythic raid gear without the socket and require a considerable amount of work to make them 425, but also probably disable the perk in the raid, which would fit exactly what you're saying. I just feel like blizzard has taken too many steps to try and homogenize gear so players don't feel bad when they don't get what they want, instead it feels bad when what you want drops, but doesn't drop with perfect RNG rolls.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  9. #249
    Sometime I even wonder if they play the game

  10. #250
    The Lightbringer Darththeo's Avatar
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    They know, but they don't know how to communicate with their player base. See: High Elf Allied Race response (Not going to argue that here, I have posts in the High Elf thread if you are curious).
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
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  11. #251
    Herald of the Titans MrKnubbles's Avatar
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    Yes, I think the devs understand the player base. The players also think they know what's best for the game which is extremely inaccurate. Players believe that when devs don't implement their demands, it's because they're lazy. It's the players that don't understand the devs. There are reasons for doing everything and just because you don't know or understand those reasons, it doesn't mean what they are doing is wrong.
    Check out my game, Craftsmith, on the Google Play Store!

  12. #252
    Not at all. They are stubburn and oblivious in realising the panaceas they applied to problems they perceived ended up breaking the design of the game as a whole.
    Titanforging, AP grinding, piling up of systems, etc. Even if they acknowledge, instead of removing the mess altogether, they want to come up with new versions of the same crap. That is why Shadowlands was just a declaration of intention and not of action.

    They just don't learn and keep being stubburn and thinking they are right as the game sinks to it's lowest population numbers ever. Oh it's just the genre that is dying out they think. Well, then why are PoE and FFXIV growing eh? No, dudes. It's your game. It sucks! You removed all that was good about it.

  13. #253
    They understand partially, of course. But the thing about a big gaming company like Actiblizz is that they, right now, are weighting their decisions based on shareholders and not the balance between them and GDs and other people who actually understand their own product(s).

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    100% absolutely YES.

    The real question should be how many players understand the devs and development process ?
    Almost zero. The OP obviously doesn't, like the fourth thread today bashing Blizzard/Devs, etc.

    They make a good game, peoples likes/dislikes change. It's still easily a top 5 MMO on the market, probably the highest quality overall. The things WoW gives in patches are much more than most other MMOs give.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    I mean that's why blizzard uses metrics...the human mind can't really comprehend the opinion of THAT many people
    Metrics in Legion would've shown I participated in Emerald Dream LFR. What they won't show is that I cursed the fact it was a requirement for Pathfinder, that I put off doing it until it was the absolute last thing I needed to fly, and that despite the fact it was a steamroll at that point I still resented every second of it.
    "I was initially planning on being a casual fan but then I thought why not just let it consume my soul instead"

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    100% absolutely YES.

    The real question should be how many players understand the devs and development process ?
    people seem to not understand the difference between hearing feedback and doing everything that the playerbase asks for. people can want things but that doesnt mean they will happen.

    /shrug

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by OversizedHat View Post
    I've mostly been lurking on this thread, but... HAHAHAHANO. "People who choose to spend time on/post on a fan forum" are absolutely NOT a representative sample, it's the very definition of self-selection bias.
    You are actually forgoing all the variables and traits that this group varies by and only look at one, probably the least important. Talk about bias...

  18. #258
    They have absolutely no clue what's going on. I thought they would have learned their lessons after BfA but Shadowlands looks even worse so no, they haven't learned anything. And time will tell how massive the negative impact of this will be.
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