Should European laws allow account deletion?

[CritFromAfar]

What I wrote isn't a matter of belief, it's the law.

Now, a forum handle can be used to identify an individual when other information posted by that user is taken into account. I don't know who 'Weaksauce on Rice' is just going by the name here alone. But what if I googled it and found a Twitter account where you said where you work. And then found a post here that gave away your age and gender. Someone who knows you IRL could identify you from these separate bits of information.

I mean, yeah, I get that. That's why it's important to teach people internet etiquette so that they know not to use the same information over and over. That's vastly more practical than simply removing the information altogether. The internet is still fairly new, despite how long it's been around, and a lot of people haven't quite caught on that it's a public space and not a private chat where they can say whatever they want to their friends. On B.net there were times people would use downvote systems to try and hide posts from people they didn't like, so it's not like it's not vulnerable to abuse. I wouldn't even try to google who 'DarkAmbient' is but it would only really be a problem if you didn't have the sense to not use the same username and keep your private life private. Posts on the net are somewhat more permanent, but when people don't think about what they're going to say before they say it than they shouldn't be allowed to just whisk it away. In extreme cases it could create problems for people who could actually rely on the public information to help themselves.

Just because it's a law for one country (or, continent) doesn't mean that's the only country whose population is using the internet.

[Freighter]

What I wrote isn't a matter of belief, it's the law.

Now, a forum handle can be used to identify an individual when other information posted by that user is taken into account. I don't know who 'Weaksauce on Rice' is just going by the name here alone. But what if I googled it and found a Twitter account where you said where you work. And then found a post here that gave away your age and gender. Someone who knows you IRL could identify you from these separate bits of information.

Yep, this is the case with my name in the game. I can't use my language on the forums but if someone were to search my characters name, they could find stuff way back to the MoP times when I applied to guilds, open guild forums and such things. They'd also likely find my Facebook, there's been people on here who found it because I posted my name in a thread asking what people were called and in conjunction with the image thread in fun stuff, they found my profile on Facebook.

[CritFromAfar]

Doesn't really matter. Just take contact using the correct method ('Contact us' button) and they can delete your account pr. request.

I'm actually opposed to this, though.

[Gorsameth]

Sounds like an American is angry the rest of the world gets to enjoy #freedom.

[CritFromAfar]

Yep, this is the case with my name in the game. I can't use my language on the forums but if someone were to search my characters name, they could find stuff way back to the MoP times when I applied to guilds, open guild forums and such things. They'd also likely find my Facebook, there's been people on here who found it because I posted my name in a thread asking what people were called and in conjunction with the image thread in fun stuff, they found my profile on Facebook.

Well there's also a reasonable compromise to this, though. You can get your name changed or create a new account, and that doesn't actually allow anyone to find your other accounts.

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Sounds like an American is angry the rest of the world gets to enjoy #freedom.

Different strokes for different folks. I think there are enough discussions on freedom of speech vs. freedom of consequence to last a lifetime.

[DarkAmbient]

I mean, yeah, I get that. That's why it's important to teach people internet etiquette so that they know not to use the same information over and over. That's vastly more practical than simply removing the information altogether. The internet is still fairly new, despite how long it's been around, and a lot of people haven't quite caught on that it's a public space and not a private chat where they can say whatever they want to their friends. On B.net there were times people would use downvote systems to try and hide posts from people they didn't like, so it's not like it's not vulnerable to abuse. I wouldn't even try to google who 'DarkAmbient' is but it would only really be a problem if you didn't have the sense to not use the same username and keep your private life private. Posts on the net are somewhat more permanent, but when people don't think about what they're going to say before they say it than they shouldn't be allowed to just whisk it away. In extreme cases it could create problems for people who could actually rely on the public information to help themselves.

Just because it's a law for one country (or, continent) doesn't mean that's the only country whose population is using the internet.

I think there is a strong case for allowing people to remove old posts containing potentially identifying info. It's easy to say that people should be more careful, but like you say, the internet is still relatively new, and in the early days people just didn't understand the future implications of talking about themselves and their personal lives. Now there is more awareness, but even so, I think there is a need to allow people to have information about them removed.

That said, a website isn't obligated to delete all your posts, because they can be considered a historical record, and removing them can remove good information or disrupt the flow of a conversation and make it nonsensical.

[CritFromAfar]

I think there is a strong case for allowing people to remove old posts containing potentially identifying info. It's easy to say that people should be more careful, but like you say, the internet is still relatively new, and in the early days people just didn't understand the future implications of talking about themselves and their personal lives. Now there is more awareness, but even so, I think there is a need to allow people to have information about them removed.

That said, a website isn't obligated to delete all your posts, because they can be considered a historical record, and removing them can remove good information or disrupt the flow of a conversation and make it nonsensical.

And I agree, to an extent. I understand why people would want to, but the internet strikes me as more international territory, even though it's not, and I'm not sure it's even been considered since a lot of countries don't have all of their laws updated to adapt to the internet era, let alone how it could all work together online. There is too much anonymity on the internet and it allows people to get away with behavior that they otherwise wouldn't get away with. In some situations I can understand, but even that can be used and I just feel it's better overall to just not remove anything.

Which isn't to say that I'm the be-all-end-all of what should and should not be, but I was thinking of how a law like that could indirectly effect other countries/continents, or people in other countries/continents, and why it would be allowed in the first place. The site you gave said that even an opinion can be considered personal data.

[Lochton]

I'm actually opposed to this, though.

But why are you opposed to it? If people wish to sign themselves out of the community, they should be able to do so without issue. That marked,if your account is deleted, your posts aren't.

[horbindr]

Wow. This is kind of what I'm opposed to, though. I don't believe this kind of information should be allowed to be removed. It may be following laws in one country, but it seems like it could have the potential to step on the toes of other laws in other countries at the same time. Removing information people put out on the internet seems like a bad idea to me.

just because it's deleted in public doesn't mean it's actually deleted. you can bet your ass if the police makes a request for the data it's still available, especially in places outside the EU. and it's probably still available to the public on sites that log the internet too, which is likely good enough for your defamation civil suit.

[faithbane]

MMO Champion has no legal obligation under the terms of the GDPR to remove the personal data of users who are outside the EU. And even for those of us in the EU, MMO Champion has no obligation to delete our account - only our personal information as defined by the GDPR: https://gdpr-info.eu/issues/personal-data/

You are very wrong I have been working on GDPR issues for the last 3 years because it directly affects digital marketing work and promotions.
The term is PERSONAL data not "private" data, and your account is a part of your personal data, on top of that "The data subjects are identifiable if they can be directly or indirectly identified" | Since the definition includes “any information,” one must assume that the term “personal data” should be as broadly interpreted as possible. - Your account's existence touches up on this point. If they can track the account to "you" or to your wow account or anything related to you, it is part of GDPR


On top of that, ironically enough, even if you are not in europe you can take advantage of it by using VPN and redirecting yourself through europe. You don't have to be in Europe, your DATA needs to be in Europe.

[DarkAmbient]

You are very wrong I have been working on GDPR issues for the last 3 years because it directly affects digital marketing work and promotions.
The term is PERSONAL data not "private" data, and your account is a part of your personal data, on top of that "The data subjects are identifiable if they can be directly or indirectly identified" | Since the definition includes “any information,” one must assume that the term “personal data” should be as broadly interpreted as possible. - Your account's existence touches up on this point. If they can track the account to "you" or to your wow account or anything related to you, it is part of GDPR


On top of that, ironically enough, even if you are not in europe you can take advantage of it by using VPN and redirecting yourself through europe. You don't have to be in Europe, your DATA needs to be in Europe.

Nothing you wrote contradicts anything I wrote, I'm not sure where you think I'm wrong. MMO Champion is not obligated to delete anyone's account. The most they need to do is pseudonymize the forum handle and remove the profile data. They don't even need to delete all the posts.

[CritFromAfar]

But why are you opposed to it? If people wish to sign themselves out of the community, they should be able to do so without issue. That marked,if your account is deleted, your posts aren't.

Because I don't think anything should be deleted, and that includes the username. Preventing someone from logging in doesn't actually have to do with what I'm arguing unless it outright removes information.

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just because it's deleted in public doesn't mean it's actually deleted. you can bet your ass if the police makes a request for the data it's still available, especially in places outside the EU. and it's probably still available to the public on sites that log the internet too, which is likely good enough for your defamation civil suit.

That's only if the company complies.

[Alcsaar]

I would believe you if a bunch of usernames hadn't been removed right after. I'm not sure how a username is personal information. It's neither an opinion nor a way to personally identify someone.

It could absolutely be a way to identify a user, especially if they used their actual name, but even then that isn't the only possible way.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Yes, too bad the U.S doesn't have the same regard

[XDurionX]

I would believe you if a bunch of usernames hadn't been removed right after. I'm not sure how a username is personal information. It's neither an opinion nor a way to personally identify someone.

The whole point of a name is to identify someone. "Personal information" is not restricetd to your real name or post address. Everything that can unambiguously be attributed to a specific entity is personal information.

[CritFromAfar]

Nothing you wrote contradicts anything I wrote, I'm not sure where you think I'm wrong. MMO Champion is not obligated to delete anyone's account. The most they need to do is pseudonymize the forum handle and remove the profile data. They don't even need to delete all the posts.

Personal data could include posts as well.

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The whole point of a name is to identify someone. "Personal information" is not restricetd to your real name or post address. Everything that can unambiguously be attributed to a specific entity is personal information.

Only if it could actually be used to identify them. Some usernames might not be that at all. My own username is nothing personal to me, and is not an actual interest of mine. There are also easier ways to deal with that rather than removing all information attached to the account.

[DarkAmbient]

Personal data could include posts as well.

Yes of course, but they are not obligated to delete all posts. In fact, they're not even obligated to delete all posts that may contain personal data - there are exceptions.

[CritFromAfar]

It could absolutely be a way to identify a user, especially if they used their actual name, but even then that isn't the only possible way.

As I just said to someone else, if it's not something that can be used to identify them and it isn't used on more than one site, than it can hardly be considered worthy of removing. But even then, people voluntarily put their information out there to begin with. If they choose to do that to begin with, why should it be removed? If they put deeply personal information it might take a simple name change, which MMO-C allows, to make it so that no one can just google your username.

[horbindr]

That's only if the company complies.

there are not that many valid reasons to not comply with a court order, which would be easy to get in both a criminal and civil suit if it was important to the case.

but really since we are mostly talking civil suits, just having screenshots or printouts from before the stuff was deleted would go a long way if the data actually ended up having been deleted.

[munkeyinorbit]

Wow. This is kind of what I'm opposed to, though. I don't believe this kind of information should be allowed to be removed. It may be following laws in one country, but it seems like it could have the potential to step on the toes of other laws in other countries at the same time. Removing information people put out on the internet seems like a bad idea to me.

Like what laws specifically? No head canon here. Real Laws.