Page 18 of 22 FirstFirst ...
8
16
17
18
19
20
... LastLast
  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by Gardoc View Post
    Yeah sure, Blizzard made unpruning one of the biggest selling points of Shadowlands because majority likes pruned classes...
    You've misunderstood my post, and quite possibly the entire thread. That's okay.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Laqweeta View Post
    The majority of people who say the game is good/classes are fun are usually just LFR heros/Elite WQ doers. In other words, they have absolutely no base and shouldn't talk about classes/the game, they don't play it.
    You just described the majority of the playerbase. Should Blizzard only listen to the minority that raids?

    Lmao.

    Looks like you've made a similar post in another thread. You seem salty. Ironic that you're 4/8M and talks about how casuals shouldn't talk and dont play the game.
    Last edited by Asrialol; 2019-11-29 at 09:52 PM.

  2. #342
    I am Murloc! Frolk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Norway, Lørenskog
    Posts
    5,823
    Quote Originally Posted by Laqweeta View Post
    The majority of people who say the game is good/classes are fun are usually just LFR heros/Elite WQ doers. In other words, they have absolutely no base and shouldn't talk about classes/the game, they don't play it.
    "Im enjoying my class/spec and im raiding" - 5th Percentile normal raiders

    Its baffling how ppl can enjoy some of the specs after being gutted so hard compared to Legion.
    R I P old signature.

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    You've misunderstood my post, and quite possibly the entire thread. That's okay.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You just described the majority of the playerbase. Should Blizzard only listen to the minority that raids?

    Lmao.

    Looks like you've made a similar post in another thread. You seem salty. Ironic that you're 4/8M and talks about how casuals shouldn't talk and dont play the game.
    4/8M, yes, I'm actively raiding the most difficult method, your point? lmao. And no, doing elite WQs and doing LFR isn't playing the game. Let them do heroic raiding/M raiding and maybe they'll FINALLY see where the majority of these problems come from.
    RIP BFA! 8/27.

  4. #344
    Titan Sorrior's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Anchorage Alaska
    Posts
    11,330
    Quote Originally Posted by Laqweeta View Post
    The majority of people who say the game is good/classes are fun are usually just LFR heros/Elite WQ doers. In other words, they have absolutely no base and shouldn't talk about classes/the game, they don't play it.

    These days i am the player you describe and i do agree..overall they suck..it can be entertaining in the content you describe as you say but i MUCH prefer the older class designs

  5. #345
    i mean i enjoy my demonhunter. but does that count? ;(

  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    You just described the majority of the playerbase. Should Blizzard only listen to the minority that raids?
    Harsh truth? Yes.

    The people that are happy with current class design are likely going to be happy with whatever you implement, because they simply don't understand enough to care about class design. They log in for 45 mins a week, do some WQs and xmog farming, and go about their lives. It is the majority of the playerbase, you're right, but they're also by far the easiest portion of the playerbase to please.

    You should absolutely listen to your more experienced, hardcore players. Those are the ones who will actually leave if the designs are bad... like in BfA.

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by Temp1on2 View Post
    I'm not actually agreeing that the "majority liked pruned classes". But your argument is a bit cyclical, you could just as easily argue that Blizz pruned classes because people didn't like so much option.

    I think what it comes down to at the end of the day is not simply adding abilities back to classes that are never/rarely used for the sake of it, but ensuring that all abilities have a clear function and actually fulfil that function. I often see a lot of people asking for x spec ability, but if you had that spec ability you'd never press it because its just not useful in any way without being in the correct spec.
    The problem is that in PVP almost every spell is useful (only exceptions being flavor spells like Eye of the beast etc). To be considered good at PVP you had to use your whole toolkit, not just your boss or AoE rotation. And it was a lot of fun. The best example is WotLK mage that had to use every single spell from every school to be good at PVP. You didn't need to be correct spec, as a frost mage you used fireball for its dot, fire blast for that instant dmg, arcane explosion for antoher instant aoe dmg, arcane blast for its huge dmg while baiting kick, arcane missiles for enemies running behind a pillar. And I could go on and on with every class and spec there is.

    With the pruning they completely removed this kind of depth from PVP and now everyone is a dps bot with builder-spender rotation waiting for a kick or CC. If you land it correctly, you pop your offensive cd, if you screw up, you pop your defensive cd. That's the gameplay of every class in BFA. Almost no skill involved, no depth, just brainless rotations.

    For people defending BFA classes in this thread: watch this video and tell me how BFA classes are fun and interesting and require skill.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Bolsheviks were amazing too.
    There is nothing fascist about antifa, you do not know the meaning of the word.
    100 milion dead people, so amazing.

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by Temp1on2 View Post
    I'm not saying that frost isn't simple, I'm saying that Demo is at the very least on par, if not easier

    SS, HoG, Shadowbolt, Dreadstalks, Demonbolt, implosion (6)
    Ebon bolt, Glacial Spike, frostbolt, ice lance, flurry, frozen orb, (6)

    Frost mage has more interplay (not that its much) between abilities than demo does:
    Only using GS with mind freeze/cleave
    perhaps savign EB to force a brain freeze
    flurry effect on ice lance.

    Demo has none of that, the maximum you might have to think of is it worth using implosion otherwise if its up press it and don't cap shards.
    Dfuck? you have no fukken clue how complex is demo lock if you compare it with medium complexity mage.

    First off
    The easiest specs in game are: ret pala, bm hunter, fury warr in that order. Nothing comes close

    Mage is medium complexity

    Demo lock is upper medium simply because demonic consumption mechanic is harder than any mechanic mage has.

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by Gardoc View Post
    The problem is that in PVP almost every spell is useful (only exceptions being flavor spells like Eye of the beast etc). To be considered good at PVP you had to use your whole toolkit, not just your boss or AoE rotation. And it was a lot of fun. The best example is WotLK mage that had to use every single spell from every school to be good at PVP. You didn't need to be correct spec, as a frost mage you used fireball for its dot, fire blast for that instant dmg, arcane explosion for antoher instant aoe dmg, arcane blast for its huge dmg while baiting kick, arcane missiles for enemies running behind a pillar. And I could go on and on with every class and spec there is.

    With the pruning they completely removed this kind of depth from PVP and now everyone is a dps bot with builder-spender rotation waiting for a kick or CC. If you land it correctly, you pop your offensive cd, if you screw up, you pop your defensive cd. That's the gameplay of every class in BFA. Almost no skill involved, no depth, just brainless rotations.

    For people defending BFA classes in this thread: watch this video and tell me how BFA classes are fun and interesting and require skill.

    Unfortunately PvP isn't what they balance and design the game around though

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Dfuck? you have no fukken clue how complex is demo lock if you compare it with medium complexity mage.

    First off
    The easiest specs in game are: ret pala, bm hunter, fury warr in that order. Nothing comes close

    Mage is medium complexity

    Demo lock is upper medium simply because demonic consumption mechanic is harder than any mechanic mage has.
    Lol. You can literally stop pressing buttons as a demo lock for seconds at a time and your dps will not suffer a huge impact. A frost mage's dps will be hugely affected if they stop casting (even for a couple seconds) or don't use procs (and they have more) at the right time and in union with their other abilities (only 2 stacks for FF cap, glacial spike, 1 stack brain freeze cap, and ebon bolt).
    Last edited by Temp1on2; 2019-11-30 at 11:18 AM.

  10. #350
    Pit Lord Amaterasu65's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    In your belly
    Posts
    2,353
    I can put up with mage playstyle right now. Frost has 3 different viable builds and fire feels nice to play with a specific essence. Arcane however feels bland, boring, uninspiring. It's just one button spam. I still believe that WoD mage was the best one next to MoP, had more buttons, playstyle changed depending on the set bonus, had a lot more raid utility. We brought both damage and other benefits like soaking with immunities, mana replenishment on healers etc. Now we bring just intellect...

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Temp1on2 View Post
    Lol. You can literally stop pressing buttons as a demo lock for seconds at a time and your dps will not suffer a huge impact. A frost mage's dps will be hugely affected if they stop casting (even for a couple seconds) or don't use procs (and they have more) at the right time and in union with their other abilities (only 2 stacks for FF cap, glacial spike, 1 stack brain freeze cap, and ebon bolt).
    I really hope you joking.

    People saying bullshit like this but reality is, skill cap is 90% of your class maximum performance played by AI.
    Needless to say, not many reach that cap, I'd say 1-2%.

    If you take like 60-70% performance as skill cap (which is still unreachable by vast majority) then sure you may stop pressing buttons.

  12. #352
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Geffen
    Posts
    350
    no, class and ability design is a huge fuck in the face.

  13. #353
    Yeah, just compare Legion Enhancement Shaman to BfA and the difference is absolutely massive.

    The worst part is that Blizz quickly overhauled Fury Warrior during BfA beta and made it feel like Enhancement used to feel like in Legion with BiS Legendaries. Ultra-fast proc fiesta and instead of giving this to Enhancement where it belongs they didn't give anything to Enhancement and removed all the fun things from the Spec. Left it completely broken for the whole duration of the expansion.

    Then on the top if it they give Elemental new talents out of nowhere which both would have been useful for Enhancement. At least the option to have more Maelstrom resource to wiggle with increased cap would have helped massively. Apparently both talents even were so undertuned for Elemental that neither of them were worth speccing into..

  14. #354
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Sarif Industries, Detroit
    Posts
    26,770
    Quote Originally Posted by Laqweeta View Post
    The majority of people who say the game is good/classes are fun are usually just LFR heros/Elite WQ doers. In other words, they have absolutely no base and shouldn't talk about classes/the game, they don't play it.
    So sayth Lagweeta. Long may he reign. May no one listen to his words and without becoming wiser.



    You have no authority on who's opinion matters, gtfo.

  15. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    they copied and pasted the builder/spender and/or combo points to almost every dps spec so everything feels super samey.
    Exactly this!

  16. #356
    BfA got such a variety of classes and specs that "NOT LIKING THE CLASS" is just a case of playing the wrong class/spec.

    You have FOTM 1-2-3 melee specs aka DH/Rogue with zero decision making, instant burst, instant AoE, instant immunity and skill-mechanical advantages in every aspect of the game.

    And you have niche specs like Unholy DeathKnight, actually needing a wowhead-FAQ page to describe how it works, because the amount of talents/cooldowns/abilitys interaction and how to use them to do ANYTHING is not the same as pressing one stupid button. Quadratic Scaling in AoE - Why Unholy Death Knights are Kings of Massive Pulls

    The amount of FOTM players is ridiculous in BfA. Blizzard should just go back, get rid of account wide stuff and punish FOTM rerollers a lot more, so people actually take time to decide what they like and not choose the easiest and most boring class for a patch or expansion.

    FOTM was never that big of an issue with punishing attunements, punishing character-only-reputation and zero catch-up. People had to weigh pro's and con's for the class choice and not just reroll rogue/dh for mythic+ like its happening in BfA, because the game is that casual friendly with 1000 methods of catchup.
    hidden information WoWArmory | Raider.IO | WoWProg | logs Logs1 | Logs2 | Logs3

  17. #357
    Quote Originally Posted by Marxman View Post
    Harsh truth? Yes.

    The people that are happy with current class design are likely going to be happy with whatever you implement, because they simply don't understand enough to care about class design. They log in for 45 mins a week, do some WQs and xmog farming, and go about their lives. It is the majority of the playerbase, you're right, but they're also by far the easiest portion of the playerbase to please.

    You should absolutely listen to your more experienced, hardcore players. Those are the ones who will actually leave if the designs are bad... like in BfA.
    Thing is, even though you or I might know more about the game than the average player. There are a lot more of thoes that you describe and keeping them content is more important to Blizzard. No way around that.

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    I really hope you joking.

    People saying bullshit like this but reality is, skill cap is 90% of your class maximum performance played by AI.
    Needless to say, not many reach that cap, I'd say 1-2%.

    If you take like 60-70% performance as skill cap (which is still unreachable by vast majority) then sure you may stop pressing buttons.
    I'm judging class "simplicty" on how easy it is to do reasonably well in your role with the least effort/paying attention. This is generally how people seem to judge "simplicity" and has even been memed as smashing your head on the keyboard and 'winning' for probably more than a decade.

    Mastering a class is an entirely different conversation.

  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    So sayth Lagweeta. Long may he reign. May no one listen to his words and without becoming wiser.



    You have no authority on who's opinion matters, gtfo.
    Spoken like a true LFR Hero <3. May you find your way to Skyrim peacefully.
    RIP BFA! 8/27.

  20. #360
    The Lightbringer Niwes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    3,988
    For me it is in BfA:

    Goods:
    - Love Moonkin. Change nothing. its fast paced and not become boring too fast. like it.
    - Love Fury warrior. its fast paced and has good mechanics. dmg needs bit more balance in some corners. like it.
    - Frost mage. it feels good and has a well rounded setup. all in all its a bit too straight but still not boring. its ok.
    - Fire mage. has its toolbox. like the mobility. not like mixture of long cast FBs & instants. all in all a good spec.

    Mids:
    - Prot paladin is mid ground. Liked older version more, but its ooook.
    - Blood DK was a more interessting and had a better feeling in older xpacs but is ooook.
    - Shadow seems ok, but was more fun in the shadow orbs times. i do not like the void form window system at all.
    - Resto druid was more fun in past and even when its good and all its more boring today. but it works.
    - Bear druid seems too simplified and is boring too me.
    - Arms warrior has a relatively rounded setup but feels to slow and starved to me.
    - Arcane Mage. was a fan in wod. arcane felt ok when i tested it, but since its totally unbalanced. not played much.
    - Combat rogue (i refer to use new name^^) is faced paced. good in general for aoe. but i dont like how it feels.
    - DH both specs seems fine and nothing changed that much. but also never played them much.
    - Holy priest. is ok. have a well rounded setup. but for me its too streamlined in general.
    - Heal shaman. do not like the direction and the niche of the spec. also too slow. but overall ok.

    Bads:
    - Marksman and BM in comparison to old versions before Legion feels horrible lame, slow, clunky and boring
    - Ret paladin is super lame, repetitive and boring. Way too simple and streamlined.
    - Enhancement was more fun in MoP because its way too rng driven now and has no aoe.
    - Elemental is too straight and simple. cd on flame shock is shit. new mobility aka no gusts of wind is shit.
    - Do not like mechanic of actual prot warrior at all. had way better times in the past.
    - Sub rogue is way too repetitive and feels boring. besides that it is so st niche that it is unusable.

    Specs i cannot say anything about:
    - Cat
    - Frost DK
    - Unholy DK
    - Holy paladin
    - Assa rogue. waaaaay too slow for my taste, but this was always the case with this spec, so i ignore it.
    - All Monk specs. never played.
    - All Lock specs (not like the new mechanic since Legion of affli at all, but also did not played much)
    - Surv hunter. never played.
    - Disci priest. Do not like that spec personally and not played much.
    Last edited by Niwes; 2019-12-14 at 11:42 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •