Page 19 of 23 FirstFirst ...
9
17
18
19
20
21
... LastLast
  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Your 'reasonably well' is average in my dictionary. And by average I mean ~60%. My reasonably well is 85%+ which is maximum of 5% players.
    If you want to judge relative complexity of a class, check all simcraft APLs.
    No, my 'reasonably well' is what is expected by the majority of the player base (i.e. what won't get you kicked/noticed for doing 'low dps').

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Temp1on2 View Post
    No, my 'reasonably well' is what is expected by the majority of the player base (i.e. what won't get you kicked/noticed for doing 'low dps').
    Then it's average. Not "reasonably well". Sorry to break it to you but vast majority of players can't even do that "average" dps.
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...s/23#boss=2298

    Check where "Upper quartile" is. Then you will realize (or maybe not, maybe i also need to point it out) that vast majority of players also don't raid at all. Of course some of them could be good but don't raid for other reasons but. Point still stands.

    Code:
    [ non raiders                                                                                                               ][ raiders ]
    and then MID line where the average dps is:
    Code:
    [                                                                                                 |                         ][    |    ]
    which translates to:
    Code:
    [    below average                                                                            |     above average                      ]
    Last edited by kaminaris; 2019-11-30 at 01:48 PM.

  3. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Then it's average. Not "reasonably well". Sorry to break it to you but vast majority of players can't even do that "average" dps.
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...s/23#boss=2298
    That's my point.

    I think you're splitting hairs over semantics here.

  4. #364
    Pit Lord msdos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    2,365
    Unholy last row of talents suck. Frost last row sucks. Boomkin last row sucks. Outlaw last row sucks. Sub just sucks period. Feral is like you have to be a god savant gosu S Korean pro to play well at a high level. Mages don't have multi-dotting or 1/6 the utility they once had so they're bad. Survival is the worst melee spec. Marks is trash in every aspect of the game. Resto shamans can barely heal M+. Enhancement is god awful in M+ and dies to everything. Arms is just garbage in M+.

    Yet people claim classes are the best they've ever been? Very strange indeed.

    One problem I'm seeing is they can't balance multi-dot, M+ and raid environments simultaneously. There's either more homogenization coming or more essence, generic one fits all stuff coming, probably both.

  5. #365
    I think it's safe for me to say that it's the most fun I've had with the classes since I started playing back in 2006. Sure they're simplistic but is that really a bad thing? I'd rather have them be simplistic than overly complicated where I have to spend like a whole week just learning how to play my class and what each spell does and when to use it and have my screen cluttered with a thousand different spells and abilities.

    I love how it feels more action oriented too instead of the slow boring gameplay it used to have. I remember playing paladins back in the day when it was 50% auto attacks and 50% using your seals and judgement. I'm sorry but I hated the class because of how slow it felt. It was agonizing sitting there watching my character auto attack and miss half the time. Until they started making them more action oriented then I started to love them again.

    Also I really want class overhauling to stop. I'm sick and fucking tired of relearning my class every expansion so I'm super glad that Blizzard is deciding to not make any major changes to them. I hope they just keep them this way and just do little updates and tweaks here and there, that would be totally fine.

    I get people's hatred towards the current design because I used to feel the same way when they first did the overhaul back some time after MoP. I even remember saying how the classes felt like a "hallow shell of what they used to be". However, the more I played them the more I understood what Blizzard was going for. I love the idea of each spec in a class having their own identity with their own set of exclusive abilities. It makes it feel like there are 24 classes instead of 12. I think it makes sense and it makes the classes feel cleaner and more organized and it puts use to every single ability instead of having half of them left unused because they had little to no practical use for your spec. After getting used to it I ended up really liking the change and I started to really enjoy classes like I never have before.

    I actually think class gameplay is one of the major reasons why BfA brought me back and held my interest throughout the whole expansion. They're just super fun to play and I hope the classes stay this way. It's one of the very few things I can praise Blizzard for.
    Last edited by Grubenwolf; 2019-11-30 at 02:54 PM.

  6. #366
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Sarif Industries, Detroit
    Posts
    26,999
    Quote Originally Posted by Laqweeta View Post
    Spoken like a true LFR Hero <3. May you find your way to Skyrim peacefully.
    8/8 Normal EP, 7/8 Heroic in a guild that's 8/8.

    Not bragging, and not claiming to be forefront, that's just where I am, take it for whatever you feel like taking it. I just find people like you hilarious "only I and people who meet my exact criteria are worthy of opinion! I'm speshul because I'm 9/8 Mythic N'zoth and it's not even out yet!"

  7. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    8/8 Normal EP, 7/8 Heroic in a guild that's 8/8.

    Not bragging, and not claiming to be forefront, that's just where I am, take it for whatever you feel like taking it. I just find people like you hilarious "only I and people who meet my exact criteria are worthy of opinion! I'm speshul because I'm 9/8 Mythic N'zoth and it's not even out yet!"
    Well I'm not trying to sound like that, I just feel like people who are honestly anything Heroic raiding or higher should only have a certain voice as far as classes go. What does it matter to the casuals whose hardest accomplishment is an elite WQ? They don't need gear, they don't need anything. They have absolutely no clue as to why classes are performing horribly or not.

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by Fkiolaris View Post
    I haven't touch BFA, but three design principles that underpin its class design and I really dislike are

    a) the bare-bones specs that get to their intended state by a multitude of secondary systems at the final patch (only to be completely reset at the next expansion)

    b) a number of abilities, mainly flavor or utility, are locked behind pvp and warmode.

    c) abilities and passives that were integral for a spec in expansion A are removed or become talents/effects of legendary items/whatever in the next expansion, usually in direct competition with other abilities/talents with which they were synergising in the previous expansion.

    BFA and Legion have all of the above and as such, for my taste, they had the absolute worst class design in WoW.
    Accurate summary regarding designs and abilities. Pair that with excessive grinds, excessive RnG and awfull Horde lore and I can see why I grew to hate Legion and BfA so much. Seeing a lot of dead high end mythic guilds on my realm so guess I am not the only one done with BfA.

    I think this is the reason I preferred TBC, WotLk and MoP over everything else. Strong class identity, fun and meaningfull abilities and some really unique fun class rotations. Making it feel like a unique but complete package. It feels like Blizzard is making it a point to imeddiately butcher all gameplay that is fun like snapshotting feral or double ice lance frost mage. When instead they should have centered the classes around this gameplay.

  9. #369
    Stood in the Fire Phantombeard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Under Sargeras's left ear.
    Posts
    378
    When BFA first launched the pruning from Legion made every class I played boring AF. After 8.2 they did get better but I can't imagine the ppl who quit because of the downgrade from the Legion specs.

  10. #370
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Ontario,Canada
    Posts
    20,526
    Quote Originally Posted by Alcsaar View Post
    I'm trying to sort this out. I personally thought classes felt awful in BFA.

    At Blizzcon we got no major announcement regarding reworking of classes, and it seems like a lot of people congratulated Blizzard on that....so does that mean people are happy with the classes in their current iteration with some old abilities thrown back on top?

    After all, if they were to do a major talent revamp - which would be required in order to make classes feel more like classes and less like specs - wouldn't that be a "revamp" that these same people are congratulating Blizzard for NOT announcing?

    I don't really understand how they take focus away from specs if they don't completely shake up talents, but no one seems to want a rework?
    I love demo lock for everything.
    i love destro for RBG's and dungeons
    i love affliction for pvp and world content

    i like unholy and frost, although i dont play them enough to tell if i love them or not.
    i like havoc, i love vengence, the movement in that spec is just so fun...
    i love bm hunter, and i like marksman, although i wish that we had the beta rapid fire, where with the talent that made it shoot more, and the cooldown that doubled it, gave you 36 shots in 2 seconds...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    Being racist is not wrong. It is a lifestyle that you don't approve of. Being racist isn't even illegal, and it never will be.

  11. #371
    Class design is garbage, took a drop in WOD and went in the shitcan from there, I quit mid WOD and a friend dragged me back for a bit in BFA (he quit before I did), I made it about 3 months before calling it quits.

    In LK or MOP classes rocked, leveled the most alts there because the classes themselves were so fun to play (there were some outliners but in MOP I leveled one of every class (sometimes 2) from scratch just to level as another spec in the same class..

    I hear some liked Legion (didn't sub) but sounds like the crap class design was propped up with the legendary weapon system (power for rent only for the expansion crappy idea IMO)

  12. #372
    For me BFA is the joint-best expansion together with WoD. Ion really is a genius innovator.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by Phantombeard View Post
    When BFA first launched the pruning from Legion made every class I played boring AF. After 8.2 they did get better but I can't imagine the ppl who quit because of the downgrade from the Legion specs.
    at the start of every expansion, during the teething phase it feels like that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestraza View Post
    Accurate summary regarding designs and abilities. Pair that with excessive grinds, excessive RnG and awfull Horde lore and I can see why I grew to hate Legion and BfA so much. Seeing a lot of dead high end mythic guilds on my realm so guess I am not the only one done with BfA.

    I think this is the reason I preferred TBC, WotLk and MoP over everything else. Strong class identity, fun and meaningfull abilities and some really unique fun class rotations. Making it feel like a unique but complete package. It feels like Blizzard is making it a point to imeddiately butcher all gameplay that is fun like snapshotting feral or double ice lance frost mage. When instead they should have centered the classes around this gameplay.
    BFA has very low rng for sensible people. You busting your balls to grind tf is no different to you trying to grind forors in dire maul, for instance.
    but sure.

  14. #374
    Legendary!
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Not in Europe Anymore Yay
    Posts
    6,298
    I've played the same class for 15 years now and I've taken it through just about all content imaginable.

    BFA is one of the high points for Fury. Eh for Arms, I liked every implementation of Legion Arms more, but Arms is one of those specs that Blizzard tends to neglect. Prot is Prot. I think there was only one point in Cata where prot felt shitty to me.

    Shadow priest feels horrible compared to Legion, but that may have changed since I played shadow at the start of BFA.
    AchaeaKoralin - Are you still out there?| FOR THE HORDE

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by Dadwen View Post
    Class design is garbage, took a drop in WOD and went in the shitcan from there, I quit mid WOD and a friend dragged me back for a bit in BFA (he quit before I did), I made it about 3 months before calling it quits.

    In LK or MOP classes rocked, leveled the most alts there because the classes themselves were so fun to play (there were some outliners but in MOP I leveled one of every class (sometimes 2) from scratch just to level as another spec in the same class..

    I hear some liked Legion (didn't sub) but sounds like the crap class design was propped up with the legendary weapon system (power for rent only for the expansion crappy idea IMO)
    Several class specs were fun to play, and you could see their full glory in Mage Tower. Dunno about PvP since majority of class critique has leaned too heavily on that aspect. Legendaries didn't do much and eventually you had a good portion of them unless you played alts.

    ot: BFA class design is neutered, and this was a concern during Legion when they planned on removing Artifact weapons. Azerite traits are just a bandaid and nothing more. Don't care about M+, it's just a sh!t timed AoEfest with borrowed concept from WotLK.
    Last edited by Polybius; 2019-12-04 at 04:29 PM.

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    I do so love both your attempt to over-read into this, and the holier than thou "end of discussion" as if you have some sort of mod-esque power over this forum to end whatever you like

    You're probably one of those who thinks that an opinion is always fine, regardless of how objectively incorrect it is, no?
    Being able to understand that people have differing opinions would help a lot with being able to understand Blizzard's (and other game devs') decisions. Some people like simple things, some people like complex things. Developers want their game to be played. They'll do their best to cater to as many as possible.

    I'd personally prefer if every class was a lot more complex, but I'm never surprised when something is simplified, even if I'm disappointed.

    Also, while an opinion can definitely be wrong objectively, the fact remains that in a game developer's perspective, if enough people share the wrong opinion, they'll get less money for their product. In other words, there are effectively no wrong opinions when it comes to affecting Blizzard's decisions.

  17. #377
    classes that i enjoyed playing in bfa
    - survival hunter was sooo much fun to level and i still enjoy playing pvp with him
    - veng dh, but im still bummed they took the slow away from the leap :/
    - demo lock
    - resto druid

    classes i didnt enjoy playing in bfa
    - disc priest is just a concept i never warmed up to since they changed it to the damage = heal paradigm (it was my main since classic)

  18. #378
    Epic! bloodwulf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    End of the Universe
    Posts
    1,690
    I have at least 1 120 of every class. Ill mark the standouts.

    Really like:
    Warrior, Prot and fury especially, arms is just in a bad place.
    Demon Hunter, both specs, still fun.
    Rogue though i don't like Subtlety anymore.
    Paladin, enjoy all the specs but really like Glimmer Build Holy (RIP)

    Strong Dislike:
    Lock, Don't enjoy Havoc Destruction playstyle and the UA spam of affliction is boring.
    Druid, dont like a single spec period. I feel i have lost all love for a class i once mained.
    Hunter, the two ranged specs have lost a ton of identity, and Surv just lacks a niche (though is fun).

    Other classes i can take or leave, they leave little significant impression on me.
    We live in an era of "me versus them", an era where something is done that you don't like means you are personally attacked. People whine too much.
    Let us play video games and be happy.

  19. #379
    Legendary! Schattenlied's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    6,830
    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    but they all feel different and interesting to play. People just spew the same bullshit, but fact is, apart from a couple of outliers, the classes\specs are in a very, very good place right now.
    This is very much your opinion, not objective fact...

    They are in a good place balance wise, yes, but to many they all feel like shit to play and aren't interesting at all.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.

  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    This is very much your opinion, not objective fact...

    They are in a good place balance wise, yes, but to many they all feel like shit to play and aren't interesting at all.
    And that is their opinions as well.

    I find the class (fire mage) really fun to play right now.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •