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  1. #381
    Pandaren Monk Tyrannica's Avatar
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    Well, Warlocks as a class feels like the trashcan of BfA in terms of class design.(not power)

    Should be reverted back to MoP standards, the last time i felt this class felt any good with a class overhaul.

    The GCD changes are still annoying for the gameplay. You notice it more in pvp, i guess.

    Then, there are some specs that need either an overhaul or smoother gameplay design.

    1. Frost dks should use 2hand weapons for big burst along with dw masterfrost again and do their meaningful burst with their core weapon abilities, like obliterate and frost strike.(back to MoP/WoD standards)

    2. Shadow Priest does not need an active voidform, should rather made passive by talentchoice and replace shadowform.

    Personally, i loved the MoP/WoD design of shadow priests, its gameplay was fluent with new choices, i prefered the 1-3 orbs over insanity(just a 100% spender bar) and hate how Devouring Plague got removed, it was a nice nuke in PvP with 3 orbs left, this system was easy to manage and fast.

    Those 2 examples show how a new design could ruin a spec, frost dk redesign in legion forward to bfa was complete unwanted BS, that did not even make sense with the class fantasy while shadow priest changes could make sense with the class fantasy, if they go all out on lovecraft, but fail in gameplay mechanics, which are just clunky in comparission to the older design in mop/wod.

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Alcsaar View Post
    I'm trying to sort this out. I personally thought classes felt awful in BFA.

    At Blizzcon we got no major announcement regarding reworking of classes, and it seems like a lot of people congratulated Blizzard on that....so does that mean people are happy with the classes in their current iteration with some old abilities thrown back on top?

    After all, if they were to do a major talent revamp - which would be required in order to make classes feel more like classes and less like specs - wouldn't that be a "revamp" that these same people are congratulating Blizzard for NOT announcing?

    I don't really understand how they take focus away from specs if they don't completely shake up talents, but no one seems to want a rework?


    "Brainwashed people" fixed that for you...

  3. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    1. Frost dks should use 2hand weapons for big burst along with dw masterfrost again and do their meaningful burst with their core weapon abilities, like obliterate and frost strike.(back to MoP/WoD standards)
    The loss of 2H Frost in Legion was one of the major negative for it, IMO. I otherwise quite liked Legion. I love my plate DPS with big 2-handers and big hits (and Fury doesn't count, I'm afraid), so losing one of the choices for that saddens me, especially as Unholy just isn't the same, with it's pets and diseases. I think there are far too many dual-weapon specs in the game, and we need more 2-hander DPS specs.

  4. #384
    I hate them for various reasons. I play a Death Knight though, so that should tell you everything.

  5. #385
    Pandaren Monk Tyrannica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    The loss of 2H Frost in Legion was one of the major negative for it, IMO. I otherwise quite liked Legion. I love my plate DPS with big 2-handers and big hits (and Fury doesn't count, I'm afraid), so losing one of the choices for that saddens me, especially as Unholy just isn't the same, with it's pets and diseases. I think there are far too many dual-weapon specs in the game, and we need more 2-hander DPS specs.
    I mean, i play unholy anyways, but i had fond memories playing frost in cata/mop/wod and in pve i played most of the time dw masterfrost, but in pvp i used the 2hand weapon, bigger crits simply made more sense in that scenario, i think there was a small delay in uptime while beeing kited and the big hits of the 2h weapon were more clean in such a situation and also more pleasant for the eye.

    In any case, since legion, weapon styles, that used to do what their name implies, suddenly hit like a wet noodle and autoattack white hits and frost fever started to do more dmg. The current frost dk design as a whole is false, its not just an asthetic question here.

  6. #386
    Immortal Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Played Frost Mage exclusively this expac. Dabbled in Fire and Arcane during Uldir but went back to Frost and haven't respecced since.

    I love it to bits. I love the build-spend cast model with GS as it is an EXTREMELY satisfying spell to cast (since it hits so hard), as well as the otherwise rapid-pacing and mobility of the spec.
    (This signature was removed for violation of the Avatar & Signature Guidelines)

  7. #387
    GCD really needs to go. Combat gameplay in Legion felt so much more fluid.

    Classic is there for those that want old WoW and GCD.

  8. #388
    Over 9000! Orby's Avatar
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    I been playing a mage, Paladin and Hunter since Vanilla and a Shammy since TBC and the only class I still feel comfortable playing in BfA is mage.

    Hunters feel awful outside of Survival, I haven't enjoyed Hunters since MoP.
    Ret Paladins and Enhancements shammy feel so ploddy and sluggish. I been told all melee feel this way (would like some conformation)

    The GCD changes are a major issue as most have mentioned before and its worst for some classes than it is others.

  9. #389
    Herald of the Titans Baine's Avatar
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    I play MM Hunter, Frost DK, Feral Druid and Havoc DH and I enjoy them all. But they could be improved for sure.

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    They'll do their best to cater to as many as possible.
    Cater to the audience back in wotlk.

    Boom, problem solved.

    Quote Originally Posted by korijenkins View Post
    I hate them for various reasons. I play a Death Knight though, so that should tell you everything.
    UH dks got ripped to shreds in legion and bfa with the festering wound mechanic, so clunky, hard to manage, RNG reliant, not satisfying or rewarding.

    BFA is a mess, where a good chunk of your damage comes from auto attack.
    Last edited by Beefkow; 2019-12-14 at 06:52 AM.

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefkow View Post
    Cater to the audience back in wotlk.

    Boom, problem solved.
    Not sure if serious and dumb or just joking.

  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by Dadwen View Post
    Class design is garbage, took a drop in WOD and went in the shitcan from there, I quit mid WOD and a friend dragged me back for a bit in BFA (he quit before I did), I made it about 3 months before calling it quits.

    In LK or MOP classes rocked, leveled the most alts there because the classes themselves were so fun to play (there were some outliners but in MOP I leveled one of every class (sometimes 2) from scratch just to level as another spec in the same class..

    I hear some liked Legion (didn't sub) but sounds like the crap class design was propped up with the legendary weapon system (power for rent only for the expansion crappy idea IMO)
    this. /10chars

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    I been playing a mage, Paladin and Hunter since Vanilla and a Shammy since TBC and the only class I still feel comfortable playing in BfA is mage.

    Hunters feel awful outside of Survival, I haven't enjoyed Hunters since MoP.
    Ret Paladins and Enhancements shammy feel so ploddy and sluggish. I been told all melee feel this way (would like some conformation)

    The GCD changes are a major issue as most have mentioned before and its worst for some classes than it is others.

    yep, can thotally sign this. hunter was great in MoP and until that point. after MoP it is solely shit (and not solely just because of new surv spec). same statment as you abput enh and paladins. mage is the only class of that four, that has half way kept intact, in the sense of class design. arcane became a bit too pruned and straight but also feels ok as a „conserve and burst“ spec, but is to fixed in a niche and have just a numbers problem. fire has good mobility and still a broad toolkit and works fine overall, if you like that kind of mechanics. frost became a bit too streamlined imo, but has also a broad enough toolkit and still feels good to play.

    so yes, 3 of the 4 gone downhill. which reflect the whole rate of goods and bads in specs since MoP (see my post above). at least in my oppinion.

  13. #393
    The Unstoppable Force
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    I don't. I haven't found a class that I really enjoy this expansion. I especially hate the GCD change. Just makes it feel slow and clunky.

  14. #394
    My only issues with most of the classes this expansion all center around feel. And that is of course subjective.

    For instance, I have played aff lock and warrior (prot/fury) most of my 15 years playing. I’ve always preferred affliction as the drain spec. I’m not really into the shadow bolt/death bolt play style personally. Warrior seemed fine tho.

    I have every other class at max level, sometimes a few of them. DH feels great, but I mostly M+. Mage has been hit or miss for me, but again that is subjective. Monk is missing its fluidness for me, but he’s only like 400ish, maybe a gear issue.

    I’ve not been a fan of insanity for shadow priest. DKs are okish to me, but I only really play blood.
    I do like Elemental shaman, but their rotation is just so...stagnant. That’s the only way I can say it.

    Overall, just so many classes are build spend. And that may be what is “off” for me overall.

    Again, my feelings are subjective and speak only for me.

  15. #395
    I am Murloc! Zuben's Avatar
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    Leveling as a fire mage was some bullshit, as I got weaker each level, but drew every mob in the vicinity thanks to Ignite.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  16. #396
    at least not gcd after every spell, maybe after every 3. and depending on your class / spec lower or/and a scaling, passive

  17. #397
    I "enjoy" them enough to play, but locks are huge downgrades from how fluent, fantasy fullfilling and powerful-feeling they were in mop.

    With MoP Affliction, spreading dots was so easy, but excellence was rewarded with snapshotting and timing. When you got a trinket procc, full dots, haunt and drained an enemy, you *felt* his life ebb away. Today you have a clunky shadowbolt with no mastery interaction, so the tier 1 talents that affect it suck all expansion long, and too much damage is baked into darkglare cd instead of feeling like a sustained dmg king aff is meant to be. AoE is a single bottun spam plus a talent. MoP aff aoe was: Soulburn:Seed, Soulburn:Soulswap, soulswap the target before seed explodes and put all these dots including the seed on a new target, rinse repeat until it explodes too quick and then you have to hardcast seed again. Dynamic, interesting, funner.

    Destruction today is alright, but chaos bolt hits too low outside of cds. Resource generation should be weakened but bolt dmg increased. Also, the MoP and WoD aoe systems were brilliant. Xelnath deserves a fucking medal for that. Picking either incinerate, immolate or conflagrate to turn into an aoe at cost of resources was an actual interesting choice.

    Bfa Demonology is also alright, with several moments requiring snap decisions, especially in aoe and m+ (how many imps to implode? Wait for the perfect demonic commander setup or make an average one for huge burst aoe?), but...

    MoP Demo i loved to bits. Its probably the most innovative specc made in WoW's history till this day. You had full control over a transformation mechanic which complicated and enhanced your rotation so much it'd be too long to write. Bfa demo is alright, but MoP demo was a masterpiece of original, fun specc design.


    Edit: forgot to mention pvp
    In pvp most classes design suck real bad. You barely have any choice or decision making, its mostly "do rotation which is as simple as vs a raid bosss, use cds on kill target, use defensives to counter enemy cds".

    Worse, several classes simply don't have a working design for pvp. Affliction can't spend soulshards vs double interrupt, it boggles the mind and needs to be played to be believed. They are reduced to spamming their instant cast dots. In MoP you could use shards to instantly enhance various utility spells, or instantly apply multiple dots in case you couldnt cast. Really, the current design boggles the mind. Demonology cds are too dependant on a long casting sequence and a static target and so barely do anything once a target hides or really does anything a player would.
    PvE is not great but not totally awfull. Pvp some classes are just dead design.
    Last edited by Amariw; 2019-12-19 at 08:46 AM.

  18. #398
    I fear reworks because while in my gut I want new shiny, I fear them being made worse each iteration more.

  19. #399
    Havoc, Survival, Frost DK, Outlaw, Holy/Shadow Priest, Holy Paladin, Fury, Arcane and Destruction I am playing atm and have fun with all of them. Some of them for instance Arcane could have used another spell that interacted with the rest of the spec like I felt was good in Legion and it would be nice if they revert the GCD changes. But as far as band aids go, essences are decent.

    Waiting for Shadowlands with hope and scepticism. Blizz in a nutshell..
    Horde bad, smash monkey. Who is a good monkey? You are!

    Wrath of The Bolvar too big for this forum. 10.0 confirmed?

  20. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Havoc, Survival, Frost DK, Outlaw, Holy/Shadow Priest, Holy Paladin, Fury, Arcane and Destruction I am playing atm and have fun with all of them. Some of them for instance Arcane could have used another spell that interacted with the rest of the spec like I felt was good in Legion and it would be nice if they revert the GCD changes. But as far as band aids go, essences are decent.

    Waiting for Shadowlands with hope and scepticism. Blizz in a nutshell..
    Arcane annoys me - it was so fun in Legion, and now it's just not. No mobile Arcane Missiles, no ramping AoE damage. It's just bland.

    As for Warlocks, I don't know Demo, but my guildmates seem to like it more than the Legion version. However, none of our Warlock players can stand the BfA Afflic - they've gone to Demo or Destro (what mine now is), or swapped classes. I loved the Legion Affliction, with the choice of builds, and the fliud way it played. BfA Afflic is shite. DoT specs should not be relying on a CD window to get their damage out, for one thing.

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