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  1. #441
    I don't. I don't like the GCD change, everything is just the same 1.5 seconds between all skills and it feels boring. class-wise, arms is the same 2 buttons, sometimes you throw in a colossus smash and at the end, the finisher.

    Sub rogue is super boring. You have one builder, two finishers and really all you're doing is waiting on the two charges you get from shadow dance to spam that stealth attack over and over and over. Very uninspired.

    Enhance shaman is also boring. You're just waiting on stormstrike procs which sometimes proc themselves, so you end up mashing one button repeatedly.

    Shadow priest needs to be aborted and redesigned. I can't stand void form.

    As for hunter, I'm leveling one right now. I got to 63 as Survival and I thought it was okay. It was taking about 3-5 seconds to kill things based on procs. Then I switched to marksman. Now I can kill things in two hits sometimes, maybe three. There's a huge disparity there especially if you take into account that survival has the disadvantage of being melee. My brother is a beastmaster and facerolls in PVP despite having been playing the game a total of two months and not knowing much about it. There's a proc for Kill Command in Survival that I don't really like as well. Anything that procs repeatedly so you end up spamming a single button isn't something I like and when you use a CD I forget the name of, Kill Command's proc chance goes up and it resets repeatedly, so you spam that too for pretty weak damage, so it's not fun to use.

    The classes just seem lazily designed, a lot of them with build up/burn phases. Things don't make a lot of sense right now. There's just a lot of laziness and homogenization. I don't know if this is Ion himself or Activision forcing him to make the design team do stupid shit but playing this game, especially in raids or heroics where you're standing there repeating your rotation to chip away at a gauge of health on a mob, *FOR ME* has been a bore since Legion. These are just my opinions.
    Last edited by silverlightning; 2020-01-21 at 09:28 AM.

  2. #442
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    The alternative of your "to much homogenisation" is that you have 1 TANK and X bad alternatives, you have 1 HEAL and X bad alternatives and you have 1 DPS and X hybrids. There is a game version of WoW that allows you to fully experience the pro's/con's from going with less homogenisation.

    The issue is, the game got more demanding and at some point numbers/mechanics matter more than you as the player. While this tought bubble of cool and unique class mechanics is a big topic in the forums the reality is, that even 15 years ago the actual players cut the bullshit and just boosted raids with a core of 10-15 players and just got rid of the unique/special classes and min-maxed the raid-composition.

    So it feels a bit strange to see this topic still popping up, when the whole idea was allready killed by the community in the first WoW months a lot of years ago and blizzard had to change the game towards the community demands.
    You will note that I said "homogenisation of rotations". I did not talk about having some melee not have interrupts, and so on. I was talking about styles of rotation.

    As for the tanks, again, there's more than one way to build a tank's rotations and cooldowns. As it is the m+ meta, for example, isn't about tank survivability so much as mobility, DPS, and utility. Again, not something I mentioned, though clearly something that they haven't got right in this expansion.

    As for it 'being killed' way back in vanilla, that was because a lot of DPS specs simply weren't, and were never intended to be raid DPS specs. They were PvP specs, or specs adequate for levelling so you didn't have to level as a healer, or they were support specs (though these were more of a thing in BC), so of course once the raids got more difficult these specs were sat unless the raid needed that one special thing that they brought. This would even have worked if only one in twenty-five players liked the idea of playing a Retribution Paladin (instead, it's a very popular character type, most iconic paladins are clearly Ret, and many people like playing the holy knight that kicks ass), or of playing a Shadow Priest. However, that's not how it worked out.

    And healers - well is they weren't homogenised, they would be good or bad in different situations. As it is, they're sort of homogenised, and some do something really well and everything else okay, while others are just 'okay' because either their niche is done better by someone else, or their niche is never needed. You seem to want all healers to be identical to solve this. I want them to be better in their stand-out roles, and perhaps a little worse at everything else. There should be no question that when a fight needs grouped healing, you should bring a Resto Shaman. As it is, Paladins manage pretty well at this, and the strong spread healers are often as good or better at grouped healing, so why bring a Shaman? In MoP or WoD you brought them for the grouped heals and the cooldowns, now you bring them for one, possibly two CDs and that is it.

  3. #443
    Quote Originally Posted by lostsoup View Post
    You'd be surprised. From what I've seen most people love BfA classes, so there's pretty much zero hope that they'll ever improve them.
    I mean I don't know where I stand on everything. It would be more accurate to say I loved Legion classes and BFA didn't change much (thankfully).

    For instance, before Legion I couldn't touch discipline or especially combat rogues. Now I can't play anything else on those classes because I love their changes so much. BFA has a lot of problems, but I don't feel like the class designs, at their core, are one of them.

    All of this said, there is room for improvement... Shadowlands bringing back old abilities and weakening the walls between specs by having more abilities that they all have, are huge steps in the right direction. I mean, this alone implies that there is not only hope, but a guarantee that Blizzard will improve on them... whether the changes are good or bad remain to be seen, but hey, I'm hopeful.

    Blizzard's biggest problem over the years has been fixing things that weren't broken, so if they are leaving classes alone... this is fine.

  4. #444
    I've said this a number of times and made a point to ask it in every Q and A thread for those livestreams...but we haven't had a new talent row in 2 expansions (last was in WoD). We have actually LOST talents overall because some talents were axed to make room for our old Artifact abilities or traits (e.g. Wake of Ashes, Poison Bomb, Ebonbolt).

    We effectively get weaker as we level. Our stats go up but we have no new shiny to pick, no new way to change our rotation.

    I'm firm in the belief they need to 'bake in' some iconic talents and give us some new ones. Give Ret pallies Wake of Ashes baseline, for example. Rogues could use Marked for Death....I mean we're supposed to be these stealthy fighters that take out high value targets. Even in the case of Outlaw, they only enter combat when its to their advantage, according to the spec description.

    I keep trying to find positive with the classes but there's always some glaring issue with their design that makes it unenjoyable.

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    I want them to be better in their stand-out roles, and perhaps a little worse at everything else.
    Some classes allready peak at that design direction.

    Look at Disc Priest, while they are not the first choice for a general heal spot, because there are better heal specs with much more forgiving class mechanics and the skill difference for your average healer is basicly no issue.

    But, Disc Priests broke many times the raid progression balance, the scaling with items and pvp had also dominant niche comps for this kind of healer.

    The truth is, people choose intentionally the mediocre heal spec with the least amount of learning curve and at some point this specs are getting buffed to be competitive.

    You dont play a DH as melee, if you want to differentiate yourself from other players by playing better.
    You play a Brewmaster as tank for the same reason and the popularity of druids as M+ healers is again, not because of the classfantasy or unique rotations - those specs are very easy to perform well for your role and the skill floor is so low, that you dont even have a learning curve.
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  6. #446
    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    Some classes allready peak at that design direction.

    Look at Disc Priest, while they are not the first choice for a general heal spot, because there are better heal specs with much more forgiving class mechanics and the skill difference for your average healer is basicly no issue.

    But, Disc Priests broke many times the raid progression balance, the scaling with items and pvp had also dominant niche comps for this kind of healer.

    The truth is, people choose intentionally the mediocre heal spec with the least amount of learning curve and at some point this specs are getting buffed to be competitive.

    You dont play a DH as melee, if you want to differentiate yourself from other players by playing better.
    You play a Brewmaster as tank for the same reason and the popularity of druids as M+ healers is again, not because of the classfantasy or unique rotations - those specs are very easy to perform well for your role and the skill floor is so low, that you dont even have a learning curve.
    Druid healer with catweaving and hot stacking has a low skill floor? Get out.

  7. #447
    I am enjoying my Icecap/Frostwhelp build on my frost dk for M+, knowing full well it will be dead when this expansion ends. It is one of the only fun build-defining azerite traits they added in BFA
    <Formality> of Proudmoore 13/13M -- US 26 MW Monk
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  8. #448
    Old God Grimbold21's Avatar
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    I play an enhancement shaman. That should say enough. Resto is enjoyable.

    My paladin? somewhat enjoyable without the whole melee dps healer nonsense.
    Prot feels that it lacks something

  9. #449
    The Patient Mightytasty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Eh. There's a GREAT example of 2 specs that were somewhat unique, but then got changed to basically be copies of how all other specs play - Elemental and Enhancement Shaman.

    In WoD, Enhancement Shaman was entirely CD-based management - No resources. No builder. No spender. Just pushing buttons as they came up. It overall feel was FANTASTIC! But then they turned it into a copy of Fury warriors in Legion.

    Elemental was proc-based in WoD. You push the buttons as they light up. And now they play like a immobile hunter. Terrible.

    The worst part is that there are now NO playstyles that focus solely on those 2 things nowaday. Now everybody has resources, everybody has filler, and everybody has spender, except Mages. It's !@#$ed up.
    As a shaman main since Wrath, I agree 100%. Enhancement was completely butchered in Legion. I used to see enhance shamans everywhere but now no one plays them.

    Ele legion rework was more of a natural progression that made sense and is the spec I main now. Fulmination used to gather lightning shield charges and they just converted it into a resource bar. My only wish is they get rid of Earthquake and go back to chain lightning spam because it looks awesome, but apparently Blizzard thinks that’s “boring”

  10. #450
    Mechagnome
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    Having Earthquake is fine - we've had it for ages now. What's not fine is having all the damage dumped into it. Same problem with the modern Earth Shock, IMO. Back when it was 'just' Fulmination in MoP it did decent but not amazing damage, but now a massive amount of Ele's total DPS is locked into ES/EQ, making them just another build/spend spec (like almost everyone else these days). They should have good damage - enough the button should be pressed whenever it's available, but not so much that everything depends on that button. The damage can then be put back into ChL and LvB (or perhaps LB). I wouldn't mind a slower Maelstrom build rate then, too (and the lost damage from that also put back into the builder spells).

    I loved the MoP, when ChL spam was it unless the pull was large and static, and high Mastery meant there was lighting everywhere.

  11. #451
    Not at all. One of the reasons i unsubbed.

    I am done with basic 3-4 button rotations. I have played FFXIV and SWTOR in the meanwhile. SWTOR classes are awesome, but even FF's are better. They need more customisation though.
    But swtor with it's utility system, tactical and set bonuses to choose from rather than gamble on (*cough* azerite gear), i am simply not gonna go back to mind numbingly dull classes. A lot of work needs to be done. It has to go back to something like Mists/Wod at least for me to go back to it.

    More on the basis of fun and engaging with a lot of synergies rather than what is convenient for the devs long term. Otherwise they can play and pay for it themselves, cause i won't.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2020-01-27 at 02:20 AM.

  12. #452
    I like too

  13. #453
    I love my fire mage, idk how others feel about their classes. I've just always enjoyed the fast paced play style of fire.
    Last edited by Keyblader; 2020-01-27 at 05:16 AM.

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