Do people actually like classes in BFA?

[Temp1on2]

I've played mage as a main for close to 15 years now.
But yes, it's by far the easiest spec in the game right now and no, it's not at all as "all other casters".

Nah, I think Demo Warlock is easier than frost mage (don't even have to worry about using an interrupt button!). Demo warlock also 'feels' less fun to play than frost mage imo.

[Aggrophobic]

Nah, I think Demo Warlock is easier than frost mage (don't even have to worry about using an interrupt button!). Demo warlock also 'feels' less fun to play than frost mage imo.

I can't really comment on that. I thought Demo felt good in the alpha/beta but haven't really played it much since. I'd hardly call it easier though.

[Tharivor]

But... You simply spam two buttons. It's by far the simplest spec in the game.

Ice lance, flurry, frozen orb, ray of frost, ebonbolt? Plus proc effects like brain freeze and fingers of frost. I didn't claim it was a difficult spec (very few are) but if you actually utilise all your abilities its got plenty of buttons to press and a decent amount of interplay between them with the procs to burst out some extra damage when you need to.

Anyone who plays a frost mage knows that's an exaggeration. As someone who plays all classes/specs available, I can safely say it's not different from any other spec. Frostbolt, ice lance, glacial spike, blizzard, orb, cone, ebonbolt and flurry. I mean it's literally the same as every other spec out there. Yea the other dude was exaggerating by saying it makes other casters feel clunky when that's clearly not the case. I'd say the most clunky caster is fire. It's a fun spec though.

Its a matter of perspective. I mainly solo so I find the playstyle of blinking, freezing, slowing, and getting my procs up to be much more fun than just standing in one place like a turret and either hoping that the mob runs out of health before I do or just slapping on a shield every few seconds.

[Temp1on2]

I can't really comment on that. I thought Demo felt good in the alpha/beta but haven't really played it much since. I'd hardly call it easier though.

Well I mean a decent proportion of your DPS comes from your pet (more than elemental), then you spam shadowbolt, hand of guldan when shards about to cap, dread-stalkers when proc, demon bolt when proc, and like I said you don't have to worry about interrupts. You don't get punished for not spending demonbolt stacks either because they stack above 2 (unlike FoF ice lance, a major source of your dps!), and your main source of dps (glacial spike) isnt dependant on RNG brain-freeze proc.

[Aggrophobic]

Well I mean a decent proportion of your DPS comes from your pet (more than elemental), then you spam shadowbolt, hand of guldan when shards about to cap, dread-stalkers when proc, demon bolt when proc, and like I said you don't have to worry about interrupts. You don't get punished for not spending demonbolt stacks either because they stack above 2, and your main source of dps (glacial spike) isnt dependant on RNG brain-freeze proc.

Still doesn't change the fact that the frostbolst spam of frost makes it the easiest class in the game and demo is well beyond that when it comes to complexity. Not sure why you're trying to argue that forst is anything but utterly simplistic here? The spec and class as a whole could do with a lot of added abilities and synergies.

Now that goes for pretty much any spec as they are all way too simple these days but frost really is too simple and quite litteraly boring right now.

[Temp1on2]

Still doesn't change the fact that the frostbolst spam of frost makes it the easiest class in the game and demo is well beyond that when it comes to complexity. Not sure why you're trying to argue that forst is anything but utterly simplistic here? The spec and class as a whole could do with a lot of added abilities and synergies.

Now that goes for pretty much any spec as they are all way too simple these days but frost really is too simple and quite litteraly boring right now.

I'm not saying that frost isn't simple, I'm saying that Demo is at the very least on par, if not easier

SS, HoG, Shadowbolt, Dreadstalks, Demonbolt, implosion (6)
Ebon bolt, Glacial Spike, frostbolt, ice lance, flurry, frozen orb, (6)

Frost mage has more interplay (not that its much) between abilities than demo does:
Only using GS with mind freeze/cleave
perhaps savign EB to force a brain freeze
flurry effect on ice lance.

Demo has none of that, the maximum you might have to think of is it worth using implosion otherwise if its up press it and don't cap shards.

[Aggrophobic]

I'm not saying that frost isn't simple, I'm saying that Demo is at the very least on par, if not easier

SS, HoG, Shadowbolt, Dreadstalks, Demonbolt, implosion (6)
Ebon bolt, Glacial Spike, frostbolt, ice lance, flurry, frozen orb, (6)

Frost mage has more interplay (not that its much) between abilities than demo does:
Only using GS with mind freeze/cleave
perhaps savign EB to force a brain freeze
flurry effect on ice lance.

Demo has none of that, the maximum you might have to think of is it worth using implosion otherwise if its up press it and don't cap shards.

Ok well, good luck with that champ.

[Temp1on2]

Ok well, good luck with that champ.

Good luck with what?

[Amariw]

You completely ignore setting up for demonic commander, which is a big part of overall dps. Its not rocket science, but you need to plan ahead to make sure you empower felhunters, at least two sets of imps and hopefuly felguard if its synced. Better planning can get you more. Aoe also has afl fair bit of nuance (do you explode two sets of imps for less gcd, or explode it quick cuzz you need dmg fast? Do you empower for easy 5 shards due to trait or save for two imp sets for massive aoe? Bilescourge bombera are great, but eat into your impcount, which has reprecussions, and there's more). Again, nothing compared to mop demo, but its much harder than frost's "blizzard on cd, orb on cd, icelance when it lights up, ignore icelance if fully glacial spike meme build".

[Linri]

I like certain aspects of the classes, but I think the are far from the best they have been in the past.

[Laqweeta]

The majority of people who say the game is good/classes are fun are usually just LFR heros/Elite WQ doers. In other words, they have absolutely no base and shouldn't talk about classes/the game, they don't play it.

[Asrialol]

Yeah sure, Blizzard made unpruning one of the biggest selling points of Shadowlands because majority likes pruned classes...

You've misunderstood my post, and quite possibly the entire thread. That's okay.

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The majority of people who say the game is good/classes are fun are usually just LFR heros/Elite WQ doers. In other words, they have absolutely no base and shouldn't talk about classes/the game, they don't play it.

You just described the majority of the playerbase. Should Blizzard only listen to the minority that raids?

Lmao.

Looks like you've made a similar post in another thread. You seem salty. Ironic that you're 4/8M and talks about how casuals shouldn't talk and dont play the game.

[Frolk]

The majority of people who say the game is good/classes are fun are usually just LFR heros/Elite WQ doers. In other words, they have absolutely no base and shouldn't talk about classes/the game, they don't play it.

"Im enjoying my class/spec and im raiding" - 5th Percentile normal raiders

Its baffling how ppl can enjoy some of the specs after being gutted so hard compared to Legion.

[Laqweeta]

You've misunderstood my post, and quite possibly the entire thread. That's okay.

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You just described the majority of the playerbase. Should Blizzard only listen to the minority that raids?

Lmao.

Looks like you've made a similar post in another thread. You seem salty. Ironic that you're 4/8M and talks about how casuals shouldn't talk and dont play the game.

4/8M, yes, I'm actively raiding the most difficult method, your point? lmao. And no, doing elite WQs and doing LFR isn't playing the game. Let them do heroic raiding/M raiding and maybe they'll FINALLY see where the majority of these problems come from.

[Sorrior]

The majority of people who say the game is good/classes are fun are usually just LFR heros/Elite WQ doers. In other words, they have absolutely no base and shouldn't talk about classes/the game, they don't play it.

These days i am the player you describe and i do agree..overall they suck..it can be entertaining in the content you describe as you say but i MUCH prefer the older class designs

[Eliminated]

i mean i enjoy my demonhunter. but does that count? ;(

[Marxman]

You just described the majority of the playerbase. Should Blizzard only listen to the minority that raids?

Harsh truth? Yes.

The people that are happy with current class design are likely going to be happy with whatever you implement, because they simply don't understand enough to care about class design. They log in for 45 mins a week, do some WQs and xmog farming, and go about their lives. It is the majority of the playerbase, you're right, but they're also by far the easiest portion of the playerbase to please.

You should absolutely listen to your more experienced, hardcore players. Those are the ones who will actually leave if the designs are bad... like in BfA.

[Gardoc]

I'm not actually agreeing that the "majority liked pruned classes". But your argument is a bit cyclical, you could just as easily argue that Blizz pruned classes because people didn't like so much option.

I think what it comes down to at the end of the day is not simply adding abilities back to classes that are never/rarely used for the sake of it, but ensuring that all abilities have a clear function and actually fulfil that function. I often see a lot of people asking for x spec ability, but if you had that spec ability you'd never press it because its just not useful in any way without being in the correct spec.

The problem is that in PVP almost every spell is useful (only exceptions being flavor spells like Eye of the beast etc). To be considered good at PVP you had to use your whole toolkit, not just your boss or AoE rotation. And it was a lot of fun. The best example is WotLK mage that had to use every single spell from every school to be good at PVP. You didn't need to be correct spec, as a frost mage you used fireball for its dot, fire blast for that instant dmg, arcane explosion for antoher instant aoe dmg, arcane blast for its huge dmg while baiting kick, arcane missiles for enemies running behind a pillar. And I could go on and on with every class and spec there is.

With the pruning they completely removed this kind of depth from PVP and now everyone is a dps bot with builder-spender rotation waiting for a kick or CC. If you land it correctly, you pop your offensive cd, if you screw up, you pop your defensive cd. That's the gameplay of every class in BFA. Almost no skill involved, no depth, just brainless rotations.

For people defending BFA classes in this thread: watch this video and tell me how BFA classes are fun and interesting and require skill.

[kaminaris]

I'm not saying that frost isn't simple, I'm saying that Demo is at the very least on par, if not easier

SS, HoG, Shadowbolt, Dreadstalks, Demonbolt, implosion (6)
Ebon bolt, Glacial Spike, frostbolt, ice lance, flurry, frozen orb, (6)

Frost mage has more interplay (not that its much) between abilities than demo does:
Only using GS with mind freeze/cleave
perhaps savign EB to force a brain freeze
flurry effect on ice lance.

Demo has none of that, the maximum you might have to think of is it worth using implosion otherwise if its up press it and don't cap shards.

Dfuck? you have no fukken clue how complex is demo lock if you compare it with medium complexity mage.

First off
The easiest specs in game are: ret pala, bm hunter, fury warr in that order. Nothing comes close

Mage is medium complexity

Demo lock is upper medium simply because demonic consumption mechanic is harder than any mechanic mage has.

[Temp1on2]

The problem is that in PVP almost every spell is useful (only exceptions being flavor spells like Eye of the beast etc). To be considered good at PVP you had to use your whole toolkit, not just your boss or AoE rotation. And it was a lot of fun. The best example is WotLK mage that had to use every single spell from every school to be good at PVP. You didn't need to be correct spec, as a frost mage you used fireball for its dot, fire blast for that instant dmg, arcane explosion for antoher instant aoe dmg, arcane blast for its huge dmg while baiting kick, arcane missiles for enemies running behind a pillar. And I could go on and on with every class and spec there is.

With the pruning they completely removed this kind of depth from PVP and now everyone is a dps bot with builder-spender rotation waiting for a kick or CC. If you land it correctly, you pop your offensive cd, if you screw up, you pop your defensive cd. That's the gameplay of every class in BFA. Almost no skill involved, no depth, just brainless rotations.

For people defending BFA classes in this thread: watch this video and tell me how BFA classes are fun and interesting and require skill.

Unfortunately PvP isn't what they balance and design the game around though

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Dfuck? you have no fukken clue how complex is demo lock if you compare it with medium complexity mage.

First off
The easiest specs in game are: ret pala, bm hunter, fury warr in that order. Nothing comes close

Mage is medium complexity

Demo lock is upper medium simply because demonic consumption mechanic is harder than any mechanic mage has.

Lol. You can literally stop pressing buttons as a demo lock for seconds at a time and your dps will not suffer a huge impact. A frost mage's dps will be hugely affected if they stop casting (even for a couple seconds) or don't use procs (and they have more) at the right time and in union with their other abilities (only 2 stacks for FF cap, glacial spike, 1 stack brain freeze cap, and ebon bolt).