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  1. #101
    So it DOES seem like classic saves wow. Kinda sad that a 15 year old version is better than the current, but at least World of Warcraft is playable again.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    I know how many copies bfa sold up til the first day, 3.4 mill, i know the cost per copy for standard edition, i do not know how many of those 3.4 mill was deluxe editions, which cost more, so my initial math was based on 3.4 mill standard editions. 3400000*€44.99=€152966000, again, thats not counting digital deluxe or collectors edition, so thats a bare minimum of 1.52M euro. Everyone of those is a sub, so thats an additional 30-45 m. Now i don't know how many was sold in asia which have a lower sub fee, but i also do not know how many used a token to pay for their sub. So thats double income per sub. But say 40 ish. We know the avarage cost of the highest developing tripple a games which is about 100-150 million. But thats over 700 workers, new engines etc. This is a expansion, not a new game. Much of the shit is already done. Control, the game that was released not long ago cost around 20-30million to develope and i am willing to bet bfa did not cost much more than that. Remedy which created control had over 200 people working on it.

    So, yeah, there is some guesswork in here, but it pretty much points towards what i am saying, That selling a expansion will always be more profitable for blizzard then releasing a old version which only has subs as a income. No shop, no tokens, no services like char transfer etc.

    my original point was that for classic to pull in as much revenue, not profits, as retail. They would need like 15 million subs, and we both know they wherent remotely close to that, or we would have known by now
    Classic is keep the sub numbers up. since Sub for classic is the same as sub for retail, so what blizzard doing a genius. Really.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeanix View Post
    So it DOES seem like classic saves wow. Kinda sad that a 15 year old version is better than the current, but at least World of Warcraft is playable again.
    lol yeah right??? Endless grind is better that -.- good lord

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    I know how many copies bfa sold up til the first day, 3.4 mill, i know the cost per copy for standard edition, i do not know how many of those 3.4 mill was deluxe editions, which cost more, so my initial math was based on 3.4 mill standard editions. 3400000*€44.99=€152966000, again, thats not counting digital deluxe or collectors edition, so thats a bare minimum of 1.52M euro.
    You do realize that prices can vary due to currency?
    Someone who's living in a 3rd world country would seriously struggle to buy something that costs 45€.

    It's not like Blizzard turns that money down, product already made, might as well sell for a price for which people can buy it.

    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    Control, the game that was released not long ago cost around 20-30million to develope and i am willing to bet bfa did not cost much more than that. Remedy which created control had over 200 people working on it.
    Random guess: The company that made Control doesn't pay as good as Blizzard.
    And wages are the biggest slice of the piece when it comes to developing software.

    Simply saying Company A made Product X for Z, then correlating this to Company B made Product Y for roughly Z is utter nonsense.

    Sorry, but even toying around with numbers is just pure BS because you are building guesswork upon guesswork.

  4. #104
    "wow is dead and classic will fail" lol

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    It's an interesting point, and this is not to be negative for classic, but what if classic had cost 40 euros + subs, would it have an influence on how many that started to play classic?
    There's no world where Blizzard would have got away with recharging for Classic unless they decoupled it from the subscription service. It's an amusing what-if but the reason it didn't happen is plainly obvious.

    (Two or three months of subscription time outweigh the cost of an expansion. Charging for expansions is just the cherry on top for Blizzard. Why do you think BfA was on sale for more than half off mere months after release?)

  6. #106
    So much for all these ''classic will fail'' posts. It might not be the perfect game but it feels a lot more fun to play than anything in BFA. So far I love the community interactions and having gear feel to actually matter. BFA feels so much more instanced and unsocial in comparison. I hope this succes will lead to TBC and WotLK.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    There's no world where Blizzard would have got away with recharging for Classic unless they decoupled it from the subscription service. It's an amusing what-if but the reason it didn't happen is plainly obvious.

    (Two or three months of subscription time outweigh the cost of an expansion. Charging for expansions is just the cherry on top for Blizzard. Why do you think BfA was on sale for more than half off mere months after release?)
    No, I get the sentiment, but it was just that, WHAT IF MAN??

    I think it was a good decision(if it was on the table at all) to just have it on the same sub. Seems to work :P
    Horde bad, smash monkey. Who is a good monkey? You are!

    Wrath of The Bolvar too big for this forum. 10.0 confirmed?

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Arakakao View Post
    Yeah, nostalgia is powerful, but it dies sooner or later. Classic servers are emptier day by day.
    Even if that is so, so what? It is a fact blizzard got huge amounts of money, from classic. Period. THis is a fact. People left is completely irrelevant. Even 1 month of subscription is a huge boost. And that money is ultimately going to retail development. There is nothing to develop in classic. All is there. Recycle. But you gotta pump money into retail. You guys instead of shitting on classic, be grateful for it. There are people liking it, and willing to pay for it that ultimately goes to retail. Some of these people are going to play retail as well, boosting retail population too.

    the arrogance, ignorance of retail is beyond my comprehension. I play retail mainly. Got to 55 in classic. And I am damn grateful to all those people playing classic. to keep the budget.

    Retail has been losing subs left and right. THis is again a fact. Until when Blizzard can keep up producing expansion if their subs are continuously decreasing.
    Suck it up and be grateful there are people playing classic and hope it does not die. It is a clear success for blizzard and for retail players. Actually you should go and play classic if you want to help your retail community.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Gref View Post
    the arrogance, ignorance of retail is beyond my comprehension.
    Wrong. I don't play WoW anymore in any form, not even private servers.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyasandre View Post
    World of Warcraft Classic is to thank for that, Blizzard should really learn more from it just like they said and bring more of it into retail!

    good way to keep me away forever. Not everybody likes Classic.

    Yes, Classic brought back many players. How many are playing now? Just about everybody I know who came back for Classic has quit or are quitting once their sub's out.

    Will be very interesting to see the next report. This is all pre-Hong Kong controversy.

    e: I'm no fan of retail either, neither BFA nor shadowlands. Sadly shadowlands hasn't impressed me and it looks like my dwindling interest in wow has just about died completely. SAD. Oh well, off to FFXIV (a vastly superior game)
    Last edited by ZebrasRule; 2019-11-08 at 12:15 AM.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    You do realize that prices can vary due to currency?
    Someone who's living in a 3rd world country would seriously struggle to buy something that costs 45€.

    It's not like Blizzard turns that money down, product already made, might as well sell for a price for which people can buy it.



    Random guess: The company that made Control doesn't pay as good as Blizzard.
    And wages are the biggest slice of the piece when it comes to developing software.

    Simply saying Company A made Product X for Z, then correlating this to Company B made Product Y for roughly Z is utter nonsense.

    Sorry, but even toying around with numbers is just pure BS because you are building guesswork upon guesswork.
    and you claiming classic making more money than retail is not guesswork ? insane one at that ?

    you don't even need to play with numbers. We know that classic is only making money on subs. Retail expansions have the expansion license, subs, ingame store, character services and tokens. Just not happening. Blizzard will always focus on retail as their main game because that is where the money is at.

  12. #112
    @Arakakao then thank you for your wonderful input on the topic.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebeast View Post
    From personal experience, players have not come back to retail. I know of entire guild that have switched Classic with no intention of coming back any time soon. What would have been interesting would be to have had numbers of people who subscribed ONLY for Classic
    See, my personal experience is opposite, though. I'm sure some people left my server, but my server somehow made it from low to now High population. I'm seeing more people on my server than I've seen in years.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentail View Post
    See, my personal experience is opposite, though. I'm sure some people left my server, but my server somehow made it from low to now High population. I'm seeing more people on my server than I've seen in years.
    That's why these topics are always so heated. For every anecdotal "all my friends are playing Classic" there's at least one or two whose personal experience is the exact opposite. A lot of the time people insulate themselves from opposition viewpoints so a player who came back just for Classic might have a hard time understanding that not all people who resubbed for Classic did so only to play Classic. Similarly, a retail player who never played Classic or tried it and didn't like it might have a hard time believing there are players who only want to play Classic and have no interest in retail whatsoever.

    At the end of the day, either of these players are benefiical to Blizzard since they're both paying the same subscription. It's only when you get people who insist their preferred version of the game become more important than the other that issues arise. Due to the nature of forums, you're more likely to encounter the vocal minority at either end of the spectrum so that's where the vitriol comes from.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    and you claiming classic making more money than retail is not guesswork ? insane one at that ?
    More money is not equal to more profitable.

    A project where you invested 1M and got 2M out it is more profitable than one where you put in 10M and got 12M out of it.

    Why? Because the former basically doubled its investment, whereas the latter merely gave you a 20% return.
    Feel free to re read my posts, i've never claimed it made more money but when taking the development cost into account, it's obvious which of the two project was more profitable.

    It just shows that Classic has yielded a far greater return than its initial investment, for that, you absolutely don't need any numbers.
    And Blizzard will most likely pay attention why a 15 year old code that's just been retooled for their new server structure made such a huge splash.

    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    Blizzard will always focus on retail as their main game because that is where the money is at.
    This highlights a major issue with your mindset.
    There is no choice between classic and retail neither for the player, nor Blizzard.
    The player pays one sub and gets both, Blizzard hired a seperate team for Classic.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyasandre View Post
    World of Warcraft Classic is to thank for that, Blizzard should really learn more from it just like they said and bring more of it into retail!
    Which, from what I have read engagement with classic has dropped tremendously since launch. Seems it was a bunch of nostalgia and people just checking it out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dekkers View Post
    What was that... no one wants Classic I thought?

    dummies.
    No one claimed that. The claim was it would not see long term retention of it's initial impact. Everyone and their mother knew tons would check it out, from the old school WoW players that were on private servers to people who just started in BfA who never experienced Vanilla.

    Again, my old work buddy tells me his server is a relative ghost town compared to release week and spends much longer times trying to find dungeon groups than a month ago for level 60 dungeons. All anecdotal of course. But we knew engagement would fall off a cliff leaving only the true Vanilla fans and not everyone else just checking it out.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    This highlights a major issue with your mindset.
    There is no choice between classic and retail neither for the player, nor Blizzard.
    The player pays one sub and gets both, Blizzard hired a seperate team for Classic.
    But its the same budget, Wow. If resources is taken away from retail and more of it put into developing classic content or tbc wrath etc, we gonna get a even shittier retail game going forward.

    And with your example.. Yeah, they doubled their investment. They spent 1 million and made 2. So 1 million in profit. Second example they spent 10 milliong and made 12. thats 2 million in profits. When did 2 million in profit become worse than only 1 ? Bottom line they made 2 million instead of 1. they made twice as much, even tho it was only 20% of the investment
    Last edited by glowpipe; 2019-11-08 at 01:07 AM.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Dystemper View Post
    ATVI was down 3.21% today on the earnings call....ouch
    The Chinese Market is closing down money making games from online games.
    China fears young people are addicted to video games. Now it's imposing a curfew.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentail View Post
    Remember, it was obvious Classic would result in a massive influx on players--there was no question there. The answers we haven't got that I am interested in are:

    - How is Classic doing now (servers are becoming lower pops)?
    - How it Retail doing now (servers are becoming higher pops, but leveled out and haven't changed for a few weeks now)?
    - Obviously tons of players tried Classic and ended up on Retail. Similarly, plenty of Retail players went to Classic. How many of those first-classic players are not playing anymore and how many players from Classic ended up staying on retail and those who went to classic, how many went back to retail?
    They dont gain subs from ppl already playing retail. The gain was all classic.
    19KbBmTBCvHyA3eHFhP8UCnbx2JoYA3az6

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    Would this be called the fallacy of narcissus?
    I suppose you could see it that way if you want. It's just my personal prediction based on the feeling, that I'm not the only one who acted that way (and with that way I mean getting a cheaper 3 month subscription at the start of classic to be able to get the rewards for the anniversary event).
    Nobody can tell the future, so i base my guess on my personal feeling. Call it narcisstic fallacy if you want; but it's only a fallacy if it doesn't end up being true

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