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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpcat View Post
    Indeed, it's complete failure to grasp the concept. I would otherwise say that maybe people are too passionate, but we know that truth is failure of comprehension.
    A tweet from one of Chronicle’s writers back in 2015:

    https://twitter.com/burnzerker/statu...769998849?s=21

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldielocks View Post
    A tweet from one of Chronicle’s writers back in 2015:

    https://twitter.com/burnzerker/statu...769998849?s=21
    Facts are not welcome here, you know.

  3. #103
    Bloodsail Admiral Daevelian's Avatar
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    Given that nothing has been retconned yet, i don't see an issue.

    Can anyone give an example of something that all this has retconned yet? And don't use something that was expanded on without changing what chronicles already put forth, you're only going to make yourself look like a fool.
    Currently raiding Ultimate Alexander in FFXIV.

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  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by evertonbelmontt View Post
    I bought some of the books. I get what you're saying but even though I enjoyed the reading, it now feels pointless of me because it "may or may not be" what really happened.

    I, for one, won't be buying any more lore books. Current lore or old.
    The same. I wouldn't buy it. I spent 100 euro for these books because I want to know the history of this world. If I knew this history is fake or twisted then definitely I would invest the money elsewhere

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    If you think about it, Aman'thul and by extension Nozdormu, must live horrible lives at least relative to the way we understand and live life. They know what they will do, and how they'll die, and have no agency in acting out that fate whatsoever. For someone like Aman'thul it probably didn't even occur to him to fight against his fate or to speak of it - he basically lives his life right off the page of its script, so to speak, performing the actions he knows he must perform to take him to A to B to C in the chronology of his own existence. He doesn't have free will, or any sense of personal agency, he is literally an automaton following instructions to the letter. He may not even think in a manner we can understand.

    Nozdormu, at least, is relateable because he was once a being that was limited and could act with relative freedom (being ignorant of the future) - Aman'thul never knew such relative freedom.
    Frank Herbert did a much better with prescience.
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  6. #106
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    “Fans” of Warcraft lore; “Booo chronicles takes away from the mystery and speculation of Warcraft lore it’s sucks asssss!”

    Blizz; “It is a history book written through the knowledge and view point of Titans, so it leaves room for mystery and speculations. The titans didn’t know everything.”

    “Fans” of Warcraft lore; “fucking Bullshit they say that so they can add and change everything blah blah blah blah.”

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpcat View Post
    Indeed, it's complete failure to grasp the concept. I would otherwise say that maybe people are too passionate, but we know that truth is failure of comprehension.
    Speaking of "failure of comprehension", who exactly said anything about, as @HighlordJohnstone put it, Chronicles supposedly being personally written by the Titans?


    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    You are asking for impossible.

    Vast majority of people bitching here are simply bitching for the sake of bitching, you have these threads pop up every now and again regardless of whether they actually have any sort of real reference going on and you will always have circlejerk forming around it.

    People here don't really care about this, just another opportunity for some to start swingin'.
    Except as has already been pointed out to you in another thread, this reveal goes against Blizzard's own advertising of what Chronicles are (with this change retroactively making that advertising false). And as has been pointed out in this thread via a direct tweet from a Blizzard dev, earlier on Chronicles were not from any in-universe characters' perspective, making @logmantv post that you replied to flat out wrong. So take your sanctimonious remarks about how people are "bitching for the sake of bitching" as you are beyond in the wrong here and those remarks are nothing more than defending Blizzard for the sake of defending Blizzard.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    inb4 Chronicle vol. 4
    Eh, Blizzard already said some time ago they are not planning it at all.
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    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
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  8. #108
    Bloodsail Admiral TigTone's Avatar
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    Imo they changed their opinion on it when a lot of people complained it limited lore.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    Frank Herbert did a much better with prescience.
    True, but "Dune" was really all about prescience and the philosophy and psychology of a living oracle figure/demigod - it's more of an aside for WoW, really.
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  10. #110
    Metzen helped co right them, thats good enough for me.

  11. #111

  12. #112
    I've always hated chronicle and the lore that came with it.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by MrSaggins View Post
    It’s so much better. Consistency matters, sure, but objective knowledge ruins my immersion because I’m certainly not omniscient in real life.
    But people who MADE Warcraft Lore should've been omniscient in their own realm. It's like saying that God can't know everything. It's a fantasy world after all, you cannot compare it to the real life.

    Although I didn't like the idea of the Chronicles, I wanted to have some suprises/mysteries in WoW, it should've been done much better. From the view of the people who made the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    “Fans” of Warcraft lore; “Booo chronicles takes away from the mystery and speculation of Warcraft lore it’s sucks asssss!”

    Blizz; “It is a history book written through the knowledge and view point of Titans, so it leaves room for mystery and speculations. The titans didn’t know everything.”

    “Fans” of Warcraft lore; “fucking Bullshit they say that so they can add and change everything blah blah blah blah.”
    And I think that Fans have right this time.

    Blizzard didn't say that the Chronicles were from the view points of Titans. Fans thought that chronicles have clear, simple lore of everything important and that they were written from the view points of the people who made the game/lore. There shouldn't be anything which is subjective or from "some point of view".
    Last edited by Eazy; 2019-11-08 at 05:45 PM.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    But people who MADE Warcraft Lore should've been omniscient in their own realm. It's like saying that God can't know everything. It's a fantasy world after all, you cannot compare it to the real life.

    Although I didn't like the idea of the Chronicles, I wanted to have some suprises/mysteries in WoW, it should've been done much better. From the view of the people who made the game.



    And I think that Fans have right this time.

    Blizzard didn't say that the Chronicles were from the view points of Titans. Fans thought that chronicles have clear, simple lore of everything important and that they were written from the view points of the people who made the game/lore. There shouldn't be anything which is subjective or from "some point of view".
    I think they should have made a chronicle of lore but that includes the whole process of how it came to be. With timelines and changes of lore and explanations for the changes.

    From the viewpoint from the writers not in game characters.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    I think they should have made a chronicle of lore but that includes the whole process of how it came to be. With timelines and changes of lore and explanations for the changes.

    From the viewpoint from the writers not in game characters.
    I thought that Chronicles were written as... something definitive, objective, from the writers point of view. But it seems that I understood it wrong. Or Blizzard just changed it.

    I like your idea, that would be cool.

  16. #116
    Herald of the Titans Darknessvamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    “Fans” of Warcraft lore; “Booo chronicles takes away from the mystery and speculation of Warcraft lore it’s sucks asssss!”

    Blizz; “It is a history book written through the knowledge and view point of Titans, so it leaves room for mystery and speculations. The titans didn’t know everything.”

    “Fans” of Warcraft lore; “fucking Bullshit they say that so they can add and change everything blah blah blah blah.”
    I'm genuinely curious which fans are you talking about here.

    Is it the fans who value consistency and kick up a stink whenever new developments and retroactive inclusions directly contradict what came before and lack actual build up?
    Is it the fans who accept anything and screw whatever came before because "new thing good for now"?
    Is it the "fans" who barely pay attention to the lore and randomly argue off the cliff notes they assembled to try and smugly refute people?
    Or is it the fans who play the game and it's a game so why does story matter?
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  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darknessvamp View Post
    I'm genuinely curious which fans are you talking about here.

    Is it the fans who value consistency and kick up a stink whenever new developments and retroactive inclusions directly contradict what came before and lack actual build up?
    Is it the fans who accept anything and screw whatever came before because "new thing good for now"?
    Is it the "fans" who barely pay attention to the lore and randomly argue off the cliff notes they assembled to try and smugly refute people?
    Or is it the fans who play the game and it's a game so why does story matter?
    I’ll be honest I got that from some posters on here when chronicles first came out.

    Regardless i just think they should have went a different route with chronicle like how I described it in my previous post.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    So do all Warcraft books ruin your immersion? Because they have an omniscient narrator.
    Do they? I admittedly haven’t read them all yet, but I thought they were generally third-person limited, skipping around from POV to POV. Jaina’s perceptions of Kael studying in Dalaran, Arthas’ views of Taretha at Durnhold, Jaina’s perspective on Rhonin in Theramore, Vol’jin speaking to his father and the Loa in his fever dreams, Illidan’s observations of Kael’thas fighting Magtheridon. I might be mistaken, but yes, objective perfect, irrefutable omniscience absolutely would take me out of it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I’d always just imagined chronicles were Aegwynn or Medivh’s point of view, and would be continued through Khadgar.
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  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    But people who MADE Warcraft Lore should've been omniscient in their own realm. It's like saying that God can't know everything. It's a fantasy world after all, you cannot compare it to the real life.

    Although I didn't like the idea of the Chronicles, I wanted to have some suprises/mysteries in WoW, it should've been done much better. From the view of the people who made the game.



    And I think that Fans have right this time.

    Blizzard didn't say that the Chronicles were from the view points of Titans. Fans thought that chronicles have clear, simple lore of everything important and that they were written from the view points of the people who made the game/lore. There shouldn't be anything which is subjective or from "some point of view".
    I cannot respond to you as to why i think your opinion is wrong.
    This video does however.
    If you can take the time to watch it you should. History is always written from the perspective of the winner its always been like this. Despite the titans being strong how can they know what happens in the void for example?
    As this video shows Chris Metzen was telling this to us for a long time.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBAeV2KJa9A

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    It's nothing more than Blizzard making a flimsy excuse for their typical sloppy bullshit writing that caused them to retcon the chronicle already. Had Chronicles not been retconned, the question about whether Chronicles remain canon or not wouldn't need to have been asked in the first place.




    But we're not in the past of Warcraft so what was there to surprise us? And Chronicles didn't explain Shadowlands and the like because Blizzard didn't figure out what they want its story to be yet. That doesn't warrant "must have been the Titans" conclusion any more than pyramids existing warrants "must have been aliens" conclusion.




    So do all Warcraft books ruin your immersion? Because they have an omniscient narrator.




    Because either something goes all the way to a Ponzi scheme or it isn't a scam at all. Yeah, no. Blizzard retroactively made their own presentation of Chronicles false advertising.




    And what was surprising about that given how Blizzard itself advertised it as codification of lore, the definite source for lore and even flat out likened it to the Bible in terms of its canon status? None of that even remotely hints at "lel, it's an unreliable narration of the Titans, please don't pay attention to what we've already retconned from these books".



    "People are hanging way too much onto the words that changed the Chronicles into a piece of writing tainted by an unreliable narration, which stands in direct conflict with what they were advertised as." Huh, I never would have imagined that not bending over for corporations engaging in false advertising constitutes "handing too much on something".




    Had @Goldielocks said that this was the reason why? Not really.




    That's not even remotely close to how narration works. A book written by some omniscient narrator is the objective truth for a given imaginary setting.




    Yeah, no. If one has to read between the lines of Chronicles then it's not definite anything.




    But no one asked that. The question wasn't about the PoV of Chronicles, it was whether it's still canon or not. Which had to be asked because Blizzard already retconned parts of it. This whole "oh, but we didn't tell you the PoV before" came from Blizzard and is nothing more than a sloppy excuse for those retcons that made the question necessary.




    Except for the part where in no way, shape or form is it even remotely true. It's not like Blizzard didn't have access to the Chronicle. If for once in their life their writers spent some effort they could have checked it whenever they wanted if they had to make sure they are making a consistent story. And no matter what people flimsily valiantly excusing Blizzard's blatant horseshit want to pretend, the concept of consistency isn't some impossible dream.

    And even that aside, none of what you said actually excuses Blizzard. If "changing stuff was inevitable" for some magical reason you made up, nothing forced them to present the Chronicles the way they did. Or wait, was that also "inevitable"?
    Citation needed.

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