Flying might not be for you.

[Shelly]

This isn't about the merits of Pathfinder or not, but rather a critique of what flying does and why it doesn't matter.

Flying more than anything is a way of speeding game progress. While this is especially true for leveling it's also true for world content such as your daily quests.

Now Blizzard has talked about how their dislike of flight often stems from the way it trivializes the world itself. Terrain is no longer a barrier, neither is mob density surrounding assassination targets.

So Blizzard has designed a world where you area expected to experience the world as you level, but what about after leveling?

Well at max level you have two main ways of character progression. Open world content and instanced content.

Instanced content would be:
Raids
Instanced PvP
Dungeons - normal, heroic and M+
Islands

Open world content would be:
Gathering
World Quests
Open World PvP

Meanwhile they have created a world where you don't need flight.

No, seriously.

Every single dungeon or raid entrance is accessible almost immediately from a flight path or in the case of many things through a queable system in the menu options.

As are battlegrounds.

The main thing that flight speeds up for people is the open world.

So if you don't spend time in that open world. If you're primarily a raider, M+, PvPer. Then chances are flight isn't really for you and is meant to be a reward for those out experiencing the open world.

[StillMcfuu]

After 3 weeks in the game I'm not trying to run around a mountain to get to a poorly placed WQ, I've seen it all already and flying should be unlocked. If Blizz doesn't like flying they should remove it from all versions of the game, otherwise the cat is out of the bag and they need to allow it naturally. Pretty much a month into a new expansion it should be open for all zones, any zones added after that get a 2 week window of no flying.

I'm not a fan of Pathfinder, mainly because it basically begs players to burn out on game content to earn it.

[Shiza]

The problem is still that the primary way of unlocking flying, through world quests which award with reputation which is the primary gate for archieving flying, become bothersome while doing on ground, because it is much slower and the terrain is still a hinderance for traveling from world quest to world quest, which is basically all the open world pve content that is and the way you gain reputation. Plus, exploring the terrain on ground is simply not that exciting after the first time or first couple of times you did it. Like, I think nobody disagrees that riding on your first characters is an okay way to explore the world for the first time. But not when you are doing repetetive content which lasts a long time and leads you to the same spots and same activities over and over again. The actual open world becomes actually more enjoyable once you can fly and can view it in its fullest while traveling easily and fast from activity to activity.

There is also the problem that needing to do all open world activities and repeat them over and over again on ground level to be able to fly is restricting the world design to be fully accesible with a ground mount, preventing engaging designs which requires you to fly to reach certain spots. This is why pathfinder in its current design is plain bad. It wouldn't be so bad if they would cut the reputation part and replace it with another activity, like having to solve certain jump puzzles and find viewpoints on the map which you have to complete. Naturally, this would be if they wanted to design pathfinder around experiencing the world on ground until you are allowed to fly. In reality, it is a simple timesink. which is stupid, because reputation is already used as a timesink for you to unlock engaging new allied races, which would be more fun if you could do that while flying.

[Yarathir]

After 3 weeks in the game I'm not trying to run around a mountain to get to a poorly placed WQ, I've seen it all already and flying should be unlocked. If Blizz doesn't like flying they should remove it from all versions of the game, otherwise the cat is out of the bag and they need to allow it naturally. Pretty much a month into a new expansion it should be open for all zones, any zones added after that get a 2 week window of no flying.

I'm not a fan of Pathfinder, mainly because it basically begs players to burn out on game content to earn it.

Personally, I feel like the best solution would just be

New expansion hits, you hit cap, you farm the reps to revered, explore the zones, finish the questlines, etc. as you would do for part 1 of Pathfinder currently.

But instead of them waiting until pathfinder part 2 to give you flying in the expansion launch zones AND the new zones, they should just have pathfinder part 1 reward you with flying in the expansion launch zone.

Then we get a content patch with a new zone and we unlock it all over again there, too. Same system, you still have to complete all the content on the ground in those zones, but you aren't artificially limited for 11 months to a year while you wait for pathfinder part 2 to come out.

[PixelFox]

I just wish unlocking flying in the current expansion would unlock it for all prior ones.

[StillMcfuu]

Personally, I feel like the best solution would just be

New expansion hits, you hit cap, you farm the reps to revered, explore the zones, finish the questlines, etc. as you would do for part 1 of Pathfinder currently.

But instead of them waiting until pathfinder part 2 to give you flying in the expansion launch zones AND the new zones, they should just have pathfinder part 1 reward you with flying in the expansion launch zone.

Then we get a content patch with a new zone and we unlock it all over again there, too. Same system, you still have to complete all the content on the ground in those zones, but you aren't artificially limited for 11 months to a year while you wait for pathfinder part 2 to come out.

I used to have that opinion, have flying unlocked on PF1. But as I said, I've kind of changed my mind on PF, I don't think it's a healthy system for the game. Couple of reasons really; Players are going to naturally just grind until they get it, and after they hit it, they are going to be burnt out on the game. If you come to the expansion late, it's not really an attainable goal unless you go out of your way to do essentially outdated content. Same with if you skip an expansion completely, it's stupid to go back and grind a big grind to get PF1 and 2 just to fly so if you are going to play with friends or guild mates you aren't left behind completely.

I just think it should be unlocked after a certain amount of time and maybe an exploration/zone questing achievement. And honestly, I think the zones are way more beautiful from the air. Naz is a fucking nightmare on the ground, but from the air it's a way more enjoyable and way better looking zone.

[cuafpr]

the only reason those issues exist is b.c. Blizz fails at making flying part of the game world vs skipping it.

[Jazzhands]

FF14 has the best way to do flying I think. As you quest and go through the you collect uhhh, objects I guess, I can't remember what they're called, and in order to get to certain areas you need to complete the story quests for that zone, and when you have them all, you can fly. So as soon as you've seen the content basically, you can fly. Much better than waiting for pathfinder imo.

[Echeyakee]

Yeah, "flying make the world irrelevant" is just a shitty excuse. Make a world where flying is a part of it and everyone will be happy.

[Teddyfish]

I believe flying takes more away from the game than it adds. It trivialises any outdoors content(so does massive power creep however).
It removes any sense of danger since you can ignore terrain and fly over any pack any escape any situation.

A CD on how flight would be possible solution, or anti-zones(could see this being a nightmare when you afk fly).

Reworking WQ to be more hub based similar too old daily hubs, but with more veriaty I think would work best.
The biggest chore in game atm is spending so much time travelling to that a WQ that takes 2mins complete then on to the next...
Which flying doesn't fix, but does help.

There's better way to solve the chore of long ground travel. Herbing this expansion early on was just horrible due to the huge increase of mats needed for pots,

[munkeyinorbit]

I just wish unlocking flying in the current expansion would unlock it for all prior ones.

Why? You didn't unlock it so you don't deserve it. If you want it then work for it.

[Polarthief]

Personally, I feel like the best solution would just be

New expansion hits, you hit cap, you farm the reps to revered, explore the zones, finish the questlines, etc. as you would do for part 1 of Pathfinder currently.

But instead of them waiting until pathfinder part 2 to give you flying in the expansion launch zones AND the new zones, they should just have pathfinder part 1 reward you with flying in the expansion launch zone.

Then we get a content patch with a new zone and we unlock it all over again there, too. Same system, you still have to complete all the content on the ground in those zones, but you aren't artificially limited for 11 months to a year while you wait for pathfinder part 2 to come out.

Yup, I've been saying this for years. I don't understand why over a year later, we get the ability to fly in the old zones. It makes NO SENSE.

[anveena]

Yup. Flight isn't for me because after 8 years of flight being obtainable from the start they decided to lock it behind a several month grind. Makes sense.

[Polarthief]

I believe flying takes more away from the game than it adds. It trivialises any outdoors content(so does massive power creep however).
It removes any sense of danger since you can ignore terrain and fly over any pack any escape any situation.

Okay and Rogues, Mages, Hunters, and Night Elves can mount for awhile, then just vanish (or the equivalent) and that does the same. World hasn't been dangerous since vanilla. What's your point here?

If anyone actually thinks the world is dangerous in any way, they're either playing classic or really really bad at this game.

[Mixxy]

I believe flying takes more away from the game than it adds. It trivialises any outdoors content(so does massive power creep however).
It removes any sense of danger since you can ignore terrain and fly over any pack any escape any situation.

And that's fine.

By the time you unlock flight, you're already LONG since finished the content it supposedly trivialises. So who cares?

Old content that you already completely finished doing months ago absolutely SHOULD become trivial to go back to.

- - - Updated - - -

Why? You didn't unlock it so you don't deserve it. If you want it then work for it.

Are you also of the opinion that old raids should never be soloable?

You didn't unlock those transmogs when they were current, so you don't deserve them now. If you want them, work for them.

That's some toxic, gatekeeper-y mentality you've got there.

Pathfinder in old expansions should absolutely be made easier to unlock. It's frankly insulting to new players to expect them to have to spend weeks grinding in objectively outdated, inferior content just to unlock a simple quality-of-life feature, for that irrelevant content.
ESPECIALLY post-Shadowlands-launch, where new players are possibly going to be expected to spend several weeks grinding outdated content... three goddamn times.

(In fact, I'm rather hoping that the level squish in Shadowlands will eliminate the need for old Pathfinder grinds. Since you can level an alt in any expansion, and Cataclysm is literally designed around having flight from the start, you'd kind of NEED to be able to completely unlock flight for alts as soon as they hit lvl 10.)

[Video Games]

Except with ap, raiders were funneled into wqs. Pointless thread

[Kallisto]

Yeah, "flying make the world irrelevant" is just a shitty excuse. Make a world where flying is a part of it and everyone will be happy.

As proven with a ton of anti flying threads since forever and ion getting as much cheers as boos with the flying comment. No not everyone will be happy with that.

Finding the right option that keeps flying for everyone and flying for no one happy is what's needed.

That includes retail wm fans who dislike flying don't want to be dive bombed because it exists.

[How dare you]

World quests also aren't designed in a way where flying matters, since most of them are just rare spawns in a cave. And even the ones that aren't, you still have to be on the ground to do the quest. All flying does is make you go from place to place faster and they don't like that, because that would shatter the illusion that there is a lot of content in the game. There isn't, everything just takes really, really long.

- - - Updated - - -

As proven with a ton of anti flying threads since forever and ion getting as much cheers as boos with the flying comment. No not everyone will be happy with that.

He didn't. Just cause he got mixed reactions doesn't mean it's 50/50, and those that hate flying could easily just choose to not fly. Perfect solution.

[Raivo LV]

As a player that loves the immersion, I think it's better off with everyone on the ground. You can run into each other etc. World feels more alive. WQ's seem kind of a sad content, if all what people do are just fly over, land, do the quest and blast off again Team Rocket style. Where is MMO in this? More like MFMO (Massive Flying Multiplayer Online game)

To me Argus and Isle of Thunder comes to mind, as zones that felt dangerous, no-flying was perfect there. And they felt really immersive.

[Devilyaki]

With the new expansion they could of easily made zones so flying would be interesting, could of even made one zone no fly and just gave the rest as flight ones. But again you have to frustrate yourself threw terrible place quest and waste time just to get back to normality again..