Page 21 of 36 FirstFirst ...
11
19
20
21
22
23
31
... LastLast
  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Show me a case of a company selling pay-to-win upgrades through microtransactions, and I'll agree that's a bad gameplay model for consumers, but this is really specific to cases where you need to pay to win, not for cosmetics and not for "pay to progress faster" things like XP boosts. This also isn't the case with Diablo 4, as far as we know, and people have been arguing against the very concept of microtransactions as a monetization model, not pay-to-win mechanics.
    It's this kind of complacency that leads to games like Shadow of War or Assassin's Creed Odyssey where XP grind turns into a ginormous slog without paid XP boosts. Because hey, you don't actually need them to finish the game, you can always just grind for hours on end for the game to function as expected, with the devs deliberately designing things that way to make people buy their totally optional boosts.


    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post

    oh look, items igname you get by paying real money
    Would it kill you to actually research what you're posting? Those are pre-order bonuses and deluxe edition stuff.


    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    You mean "capitalism".

    Companies are intended and expected to charge as much money for products and services as the market will bear. That's how the system works.

    If you want to talk about the perils of capitalism, well, I'm a liberal market socialist, ideologically speaking. But that seems like it's a big reach from this particular issue.

    Yes, Blizzard wants to make as much money for shareholders as it can. That is its ethical obligation, and the intended purpose of any such company. It's like blaming a tiger for eating meat.
    Companies don't exist in a vacuum. They exist in a society. Excusing companies' greedily milking consumers dry is how you end up with epipens costing hundreds of dollars in US. Which creates a system that works wonders as far as ethics are concerned.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cairhiin View Post
    PoE is kind of a bad example, because even though it's free, if you seriously want to play the game you pretty much have to buy a Currency and Map stash tab, and if you are into trading a Premium stash tab as well. And every league they add new garbage items that fill up your stash, only to release another stash tab that feels near mandatory a league later. I don't mind this, and I think it's quite an okay business model but let's not kid ourselves PoE is really free.
    On top of that full 60 dollars price, Diablo 4 will also have standard expansions.
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2019-11-10 at 07:51 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  2. #402
    Gamers of today are spoiled kids, that think just because you give 60$ to a game, the company needs to give you servers to play the game with other players and they are obligates to you to give you content regularly.
    To me this is pathetic type of thinking.
    If you don`t like the MTX, don`t buy it, no one tells you to do, as no one tells you to play that game, you can jump on another.

    Most games of today are in the region of 40-60$, and most of them just give you a campaign and a single player experience. And that`s it. No more and no less. If you like it you will buy it.

    Games like Diablo 4 will give a huge campaign, a huge huge world to explore in a MULTIPLAYER on a big server with a lot of other players. It will give you plenty of items and contents, as well as end game replayability by highest level. Its gives you MMO content, World Bosses etc.
    This is for the price in the region of 60$. Even if we stop here games like Diablo gives you more compare to the others regular games. And games like Diablo also offer you a future expansion of this game, which mean you can fell inlove with the franchise and be your main game for many, many years to come.
    No one is obligated to anyone to support the game after its first release. If you want the game to be supported, you either going to pay for every new content that`s comes out, either have MTX and give money on good will and get something in exchange and support the game or obviously pay monthly fee.

    When POE comes out, the DEVS needs the game to be free, otherwise no one would buy it at that time, cause no one really knows much about GGG and about POE. Also POE nowadays are way different than POE at the starts.

    If we want the game to be supported and have big lifespan like POE for example, i gladly will pay 60$ for the game, and either pay monthly fee or buy MTX Supporter Packs to future support the game and get new content regularly.

    Even the DEVS tells you that back in the Diablo 3 time. They said D3 is not a MMORPG and they cant support it like WoW, because obviously doesn't give money back.

    What i want is a BIG, BIG game, Open World was the best thing a game to Evolve, and every game and genre needs to evolve so to stay alive and interesting, plenty of End Games, plenty of different things to do and plenty of regular contents to come.

  3. #403
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    60,515
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Companies don't exist in a vacuum. They exist in a society. Excusing companies' greedily milking consumers dry is how you end up with epipens costing hundreds of dollars in US. Which creates a system that works wonders.
    As I've said at least twice, if you want to talk about throwing off capitalist economics in favor of a socialist system, we can have that discussion, but it's not really on-topic for this thread.

    Until that's the point we're at, we've got to deal with the normal function of capitalist economics, which involves maximizing profits.

    It's also really not fair to compare this to medical expenses, since when you need an epipen, you need it, or you'll likely die. Nobody needs Diablo 4. You'll be fine without it.

    If we weren't talking about pure entertainment luxuries, then I might be a little more critical. If we want to talk about the potential gains for society with a socialist model, I'm game for that chat, but it's not for this thread.

    On top of that full 60 dollars price, Diablo 4 will also have standard expansions.
    The idea that this is a "full price" is basically the problem.

    It ain't.

    It's a base price, for the basic model without any bells and whistles, all of which cost extra.

  4. #404
    I am Murloc! Cairhiin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Finland/Holland
    Posts
    5,784
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    On top of that full 60 dollars price, Diablo 4 will also have standard expansions.
    I missed the part where I mentioned Diablo 4. I merely stated, PoE isn't as free as people make it out to be. And almost every league a new stash tab gets introduced.

  5. #405
    Brewmaster Sfidt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    1,384
    They are already planning expansions (obviously it's going to cost) while the game hasn't launched yet. Imagine my shock they do MTX
    S.H.

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by NoRest4Wicked View Post
    As long as its cosmetic only, like Path of Exile, that's fine. Even better if it helps drive meaningful content updates that D3 lacked.
    PoE sells bank and reagent tabs that are incredibly important for this type of game. They aren't cheap either. Each tab is like 10 dollars at least. People keep ignoring this fact. PoE isn't a f2p game. You csnt play the game effectively without these extra tabs.

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by horbindr View Post
    makes you wonder why they make the grind take that long eh?
    Because people are different and some prefer it that way.

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefhammer View Post
    Not water but a desert or glass of wine.
    Both are free in any sane place that offer then included in the price of a dinner. Worked at restaurant and it would be madness to have people pay extra for a piece of cake or glass of wine.

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    On top of that full 60 dollars price, Diablo 4 will also have standard expansions.
    And when you paid for this example you will get the content which are in them. But still they don`t need to support between the release of the base game till the expansion, you get that? In orders to get this regular updates and new content, they need to earn money from us, so they can get something in change for their support, otherwise what will they win by supporting game, except for the money they will waste? They also have server to maintain.

    The only way for them to support the game between the base game and the so call expansion is by either MTX, monthly fee or charge for every new content they put out, like 5$ for every new minor example(In POE loves to call them like that).

    Is it that hard to get it?

    P.P. And just by typing i get a new idea for monetization mode. To simply release a new lets said minor expansion every 3 months(just like poe is doing) and to charge in the region of 30-40$ for it.

    To be fair this will be best monetization mode, and the best way to keep the game alive, to support the game, so they can get their income and we can get regularly new contents and updates.
    Last edited by lordlosh; 2019-11-10 at 08:08 PM.

  10. #410
    Brewmaster Sfidt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    1,384
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Companies don't exist in a vacuum. They exist in a society. Excusing companies' greedily milking consumers dry is how you end up with epipens costing hundreds of dollars in US. Which creates a system that works wonders.
    Do they force you to pay or play? No. People buy that bullshit because they want to. The companies are not the government, they can't milk you unless you let them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by lordlosh View Post
    And when you paid for this example you will get the content which are in them. But still they don`t need to support between the release of the base game till the expansion, you get that? In orders to get this regular updates and new content, they need to earn money from us, so they can get something in change for their support, otherwise what will they win by supporting game, except for the money they will waste? They also have server to maintain.

    The only way for them to support the game between the base game and the so call expansion is by either MTX, monthly fee or charge for every new content they put out, like 5$ for every new minor example(In POE loves to call them like that).

    Is it that hard to get it?
    Diablo 2 and Warcraft 3 have been supported for years without mtx.
    S.H.

  11. #411
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    60,515
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    Both are free in any sane place that offer then included in the price of a dinner. Worked at restaurant and it would be madness to have people pay extra for a piece of cake or glass of wine.
    I've been to decent restaurants in 7 different countries, and none of them offered free desserts or wine. High-end places might offer you a quoted price for a full 5-course meal, including wine pairings, but then the price for those is included, not free.

    I have no idea where you live, but that's certainly not the standard practice, internationally.

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    Both are free in any sane place that offer then included in the price of a dinner. Worked at restaurant and it would be madness to have people pay extra for a piece of cake or glass of wine.
    What restaurants do you go to where wine and dessert is free? Let me know cause I'd love to go there.

  13. #413
    Sfidt, what exactly was the support for Diablo 2, outside few updates and the expansion in which you need to pay for it ? Does it have regularly new contents or even slight new contents ? The answer is obviously NO.
    Warcraft 3 is a strategy and the patches outside of the expansion doesn`t require much work you know ? Also there was a lot of tournaments and big money involved in WC3 ......

    Lets be real if you want the game supported you have to pay for it.
    I`m playing ESO right now if i want to play extra content, that the game offer in the DLC i have to pay for it, its that simply. If i want regular content and support for the game for years to come i have to pay. Its that simply.

    The guy above me said it. If you want an extra something of anything, you have to paid for it, its not going to come for free, just because you already buy 1.

  14. #414
    I don't see a problem with it if it's purely cosmetic.

    Maybe I would let stash space slide if there is a way to increase stash space without paying.

  15. #415
    We already knew this since the devs were pretty transparent in BlizzCon. They said there will be paid content in form of game+expansions, and a cash shop which does NOT sell power. Sounds perfect to me as the game will live longer with this monetization plan. Imagine if they said there will be no cash shop and a one time fee. The game wouldn’t live very long.

    Why not let the people who WANT to spend loads of money on cosmetics do so, when that means that the developers gets more funds to improve the game YOU are playing, which you only paid for once?

  16. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by lordlosh View Post
    Gamers of today are spoiled kids, that think just because you give 60$ to a game, the company needs to give you servers to play the game with other players and they are obligates to you to give you content regularly.
    To me this is pathetic type of thinking.
    If you don`t like the MTX, don`t buy it, no one tells you to do, as no one tells you to play that game, you can jump on another.

    Most games of today are in the region of 40-60$, and most of them just give you a campaign and a single player experience. And that`s it. No more and no less. If you like it you will buy it.

    Games like Diablo 4 will give a huge campaign, a huge huge world to explore in a MULTIPLAYER on a big server with a lot of other players. It will give you plenty of items and contents, as well as end game replayability by highest level. Its gives you MMO content, World Bosses etc.
    This is for the price in the region of 60$. Even if we stop here games like Diablo gives you more compare to the others regular games. And games like Diablo also offer you a future expansion of this game, which mean you can fell inlove with the franchise and be your main game for many, many years to come.
    No one is obligated to anyone to support the game after its first release. If you want the game to be supported, you either going to pay for every new content that`s comes out, either have MTX and give money on good will and get something in exchange and support the game or obviously pay monthly fee.

    When POE comes out, the DEVS needs the game to be free, otherwise no one would buy it at that time, cause no one really knows much about GGG and about POE. Also POE nowadays are way different than POE at the starts.

    If we want the game to be supported and have big lifespan like POE for example, i gladly will pay 60$ for the game, and either pay monthly fee or buy MTX Supporter Packs to future support the game and get new content regularly.

    Even the DEVS tells you that back in the Diablo 3 time. They said D3 is not a MMORPG and they cant support it like WoW, because obviously doesn't give money back.

    What i want is a BIG, BIG game, Open World was the best thing a game to Evolve, and every game and genre needs to evolve so to stay alive and interesting, plenty of End Games, plenty of different things to do and plenty of regular contents to come.
    What the fuck. No new content will come for free. It will come in expansions which also cost nearly as much as the base game, or in the case of wow even more because boosts down your throat.
    As for diablo, no one asked for it to be online only if server upkeep is even costly which is not. It's their own doing to be able to shove more crap like real money ah and now cash shops.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mmid View Post
    We already knew this since the devs were pretty transparent in BlizzCon. They said there will be paid content in form of game+expansions, and a cash shop which does NOT sell power. Sounds perfect to me as the game will live longer with this monetization plan. Imagine if they said there will be no cash shop and a one time fee. The game wouldn’t live very long.

    Why not let the people who WANT to spend loads of money on cosmetics do so, when that means that the developers gets more funds to improve the game YOU are playing, which you only paid for once?
    Because they ARE NOT. The only improvement will come in the form of an expansion. Why not let people acquire the cosmetics by playing the fucking game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    What restaurants do you go to where wine and dessert is free? Let me know cause I'd love to go there.
    The wine and the dessert in this case would the expansions. A better comparison will be you having to pay more money to eat with a fork and a spoon. If not you eat with your hands.
    Warlock soloing https://www.youtube.com/user/Firedemon012 (old & abandoned)

  17. #417
    Firedemon, is it that hard to get it? Okay i will ask again, because you obviously read through the lines. What exactly you will do between the base game and the expansion or you expect big expansion every 3 months?
    We can get a big expansion in a year or 2 if we are lucky. Explain to me in what state the game will be, between that time ?
    We already see this plan is not working with Diablo 3.
    POE shows the right way and that if you want the game alive you need to give regularly updates. Just like how they do every 3 months new minor or not so expansion.
    And for that you will have to have MTX or paid for this mini expansion. In POE people pay by buying Supporter Packs. I don`t see why in Diablo should be any different, and even worth more.
    And what exactly is your problem with the MTX? If you don`t like them, don`t pay for them. This is not a P2W mode.
    And yeah you actually have to support the servers and paid for them, no matter what the prices are, its still a - from their money. For example if you play on Console you have to paid every month so you can play Online. You get it now ?
    Last edited by lordlosh; 2019-11-10 at 08:28 PM.

  18. #418
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    60,515
    Quote Originally Posted by Firedemon View Post
    The wine and the dessert in this case would the expansions. A better comparison will be you having to pay more money to eat with a fork and a spoon. If not you eat with your hands.
    Except not in any way at all, because cutlery is a basic expectation, and nothing in these microtransactions would be considered such. They're bonus cosmetic options.

    It's more like paying extra if you want the mariachi band to serenade you and your date. Your date and meal is just fine without it if you don't want to spend the money.

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by lordlosh View Post
    And when you paid for this example you will get the content which are in them. But still they don`t need to support between the release of the base game till the expansion, you get that? In orders to get this regular updates and new content, they need to earn money from us, so they can get something in change for their support, otherwise what will they win by supporting game, except for the money they will waste? They also have server to maintain.

    The only way for them to support the game between the base game and the so call expansion is by either MTX, monthly fee or charge for every new content they put out, like 5$ for every new minor example(In POE loves to call them like that).
    If you think that revenue from the base game and expansions won't cover the server costs and adding new legendaries and some tweaks for a season when Diablo 3 is already one of the best selling PC games of all time despite its rather mixed reception I've got a bridge to sell you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  20. #420
    Don't care. But I guess the usual crowd of people looking for things to dislike in games have something to latch onto now.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •