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  1. #261
    Anyone else concerned they added mounts just for another things to sell MTX for? From a gameplay standpoint, it seems like an odd inclusion. If its too slow, no one bothers, if its too fast people complain about having to mount up to be efficient, if the maps are too big they feel empty and boring, if they're too small, mounting/dismounting breaks the flow of gameplay too much.

    And with this focus on a dark and gritty artstyle, is it going to be a problem with MTX armor and public zones/towns? People want to look cool, fancy glowing armor, flaming wings, etc. Are they going to reign in the design team to make armor that looks like it belongs in a Diablo game, or are they going to try to make as much money as possible and create a variety of armor, including flashier options that wouldn't have been considered for in-game obtainable designs. PoE has the problem of neon circus public zones, but they never made coherent artstyle a major selling point in their marketing.

    And I wouldn't hold out hope for many additional classes down the line, because of all the class specific affixes, they're going to need to design an entire games worth of gear everytime they want to add another character. And does it make sense doing that? Or working on another dungeon for people to run, armor set or mount to sell, etc.
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  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Struggle View Post
    I mean inflation is a real thing, and it makes perfect sense for prices to slowly rise over that amount of time. I'd pay extra if it meant funding future development and ending the idea of MTX.
    No it doesn't. Games sell significantly more copies on average year over year - a far larger increase in profits than accounted for by inflation.
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    Nah nah, see... I live by one simple creed: You might catch more flies with honey, but to catch honeys you gotta be fly.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Seems like a way to support the game. I don't condone them but....its going to be awhile being D4 is released.
    A way to support the game? Diablo isn't an MMO, it's supposed to be released fully ready to go without needing patches/nerfs or fixes. But Blizzard loves releasing games in the Beta stage, you basically pay 70$ to beta test the game, and then pay them through microtransactions to work to actually fix the fixes put it at it's release stage.

    It's a crime and scam.

    They only get away with this cause it's on PC. You'd never see a game on console and only console release and then patch it every week cause they released it when it was only 40% ready to be released. You see this shit all the time in other blizzard games but never in any other companies games. When's the last time FFXIV had a balancing patch? like once in the last year, blizzard has one every week cause they release expansions before they're fully tested

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by jstnw89 View Post
    PoE is free to play with free expansions and leagues
    And there are cosmetic microtransactions...

    (I have no issue with them, but, if people don't mind PoE, they shouldn't mind a Diablo 4 with cosmetic microtransactions either, unless they just like being hypocrites, because it's Blizzard, or something else.)

  5. #265
    Pandaren Monk Tabrotar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agm114r View Post
    And there are cosmetic microtransactions...

    (I have no issue with them, but, if people don't mind PoE, they shouldn't mind a Diablo 4 with cosmetic microtransactions either, unless they just like being hypocrites, because it's Blizzard, or something else.)
    Hm lets see, position 1, a game which is completly free and only make smoney trough said microtransactions and position 2, a game which you ha dto buy and also have to buy the addons
    Now lets put them together and maybe, just maybe even you are able to see the problem here...

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by agm114r View Post
    And there are cosmetic microtransactions...

    (I have no issue with them, but, if people don't mind PoE, they shouldn't mind a Diablo 4 with cosmetic microtransactions either, unless they just like being hypocrites, because it's Blizzard, or something else.)
    The base game ($60) and expansions ($40 per) are buy-to-play along with mtx being included.. I know mmo-champion isn't full of the best and brightest, but why is this difference so hard to understand?
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  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Okay?

    The feature itself and the underlying systems around it also don't automatically make whatever game it's in bad or not entertaining.

    I'm with you that I'd rather not have to see a bunch of reminders about some in game cash shop, but so long as it's just "there" and reminding me that it's "there" I don't see the harm.

    The D3 Necromancer example is annoying, for sure, but it doesn't directly affect your gameplay....does it? I don't play D3 and haven't seen it so I don't know if it pops up at ridiculously annoying times. If it does do that, then yeah, fuck that, but if it pops up on login and it goes away for the rest of your play session after you "X" out it's tolerable.
    As long as cash shop is in the game your loot drops will be based around having that shop. Without shop you'll get all your cosmetics in the game, with shop some of those cosmetics will be gated. Then there will be a push towards "saving your time", so you won't have to rely on a random drop chance. We've seen this in other games, we've seen this in diablo already (in terms of RMAH and old loot drop system), we've already been there and we know that it's bad for a AAA title with upfront cost of 60$ + DLC to have a shop in game - cosmetic or not.

    That banner disappears only when you buy the dlc, it doesn't go away, there is no "X" to click on - it's just there constantly when you return to login screen. Diablo 3 is a AAA game, it shouldn't have such things in it, i understand when warhammer online used to pop up a window with "BUY THE GAME!" message every time you level up, but it only exists before you pay for the game. Now i have bought the game and i still get this "ad" right on a login screen.
    There is just no place for those predatory tactics to get people rid of their money for stuff they may not want nor need in a non-free to play game

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dipzz View Post
    A way to support the game? Diablo isn't an MMO, it's supposed to be released fully ready to go without needing patches/nerfs or fixes. But Blizzard loves releasing games in the Beta stage, you basically pay 70$ to beta test the game, and then pay them through microtransactions to work to actually fix the fixes put it at it's release stage.
    "A way to support the game" would be to buy the game, play it, recommend to your friends and spam how glorious it is on twitter. Buy an expansion pack later, when they've done with making it and release it, instead of releasing DLCs on some sort of a schedule
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  8. #268
    Wonder how many people would support paid for additions to other aspects, wonder how many people would be outraged if film compnies suddenly started releasing base editions of films with things such as directors commentaries and faturettes as mtx.

  9. #269
    blizzard never did ptw contents in their game, i dont see any hint they will do it for d4
    it will only be cosmetic , like skins, mount, pets etc..

    if blizzard would go for a ptw situation, they would do it with WoW already

    peoples panic on everything since a few years, jesus christ ! lol

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Why would anyone be surprised? This question was asked at Blizzcon and the answer they gave, didn't even answer the question at all. It was just some bullshit non-conclusive answer about "different playstyles for different players" or something like that.

    They were directly asked if D4 would have microtransactions, and gave a vague non-answer. That alone was confirmation that yes, there would be microtransactions.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Nobody is "defending microtransactions", we're saying that it's just cosmetic items so it's not that bad.
    You just defended it lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ser Arthur Dayne View Post
    Oh btw, reported, you replied faster than the run time of the video.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Acelius View Post
    You just defended it lol.
    That's more like "downplaying the rage", MTX is always portrayed more seriously than it really is.
    Every game is probably better without MTX (more stuff to unlock by playing), but not every game with MTX is shit and it's not bad for every game and it's future (even if full priced).

    You could argue for example that the amount of skins would be significantly lower without MTX than it is with MTX.
    There are only "so many" cosmetics you can put in your game at release or are willing to support, everything else would require "extra work" you won't get because there is no benefit for them to do so.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2019-11-09 at 08:04 AM.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Tabrotar View Post
    Hm lets see, position 1, a game which is completly free and only make smoney trough said microtransactions and position 2, a game which you ha dto buy and also have to buy the addons
    Now lets put them together and maybe, just maybe even you are able to see the problem here...
    To be fair, PoE kind of skimps on storage solutions baseline to where you'll need to buy storage tabs and the currency/map/etc. tabs. Even if you don't get them all, you're dumping quite a bit of money into getting workable stash space (especially if you do a lot of trading). You could easily spend $70 - $100 on storage solutions alone depending upon how much space you need and how much you farm at a time, even with sales. When we get into cosmetics pricing, you're ranging from spending roughly $10 to $65 per individual item. I have a friend that I play PoE with who spent $650 on just one full cosmetic set with matching portals effects, and to most people that's a ton of money to spend on a "free" game.

    If you compare that to Blizzard games any storage solutions that you need are pretty much achievable without having to spend money on microtransactions. The expanded baseline bag in WoW was related to having an autheticator (but that's free now) with bags being in-game currency and D3's storage is expanded via completing content and spending in-game currency. When it comes to vanity items and other cosmetic products in their in-game shops, they're way cheaper than what PoE is offering, but that's to be expected since it's PoE's only source of income. As an example of what you get from Blizz typically, think of all the in-game items you get when purchasing a BlizzCon ticket... and with that same amount of money you can't even buy a large portion of the PoE cosmetic individual items.

    Simple version is this: you cannot directly compare PoE with Blizzard and potentially D4 when it comes to microtransactions and profit models, as it's an apple to oranges comparison. PoE skimps on quality of life to make players want to spend money on microtransactions on a free game while Blizz has an initial purchase amount with lower cost vanity microtransactions. If D4 has us making microtransactions to expand storage space and have tidy currency/key/etc. storage tabs on top of having a baseline cost, then people might have an argument... but as of right now, there's no argument to be had as there's nothing to indicate an issue yet.
    Last edited by exochaft; 2019-11-09 at 08:13 AM.
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  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Darklurker View Post
    https://twitter.com/SkillUpYT/status...02103212802049

    So on top of the paid game and expansions, there will be microtransactions. Shame, my excitement had almost made it through one entire week.
    lol you had other expectations? of course it will have micro transactions, it's blizzard
    the moment they announced the game will have mounts i already imagined the blizz store full

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by jstnw89 View Post
    The base game ($60) and expansions ($40 per) are buy-to-play along with mtx being included.. I know mmo-champion isn't full of the best and brightest, but why is this difference so hard to understand?
    It still comes down to what you're willing to spend your money on. If you don't like how a game is offered...don't buy it.
    You build your own company, you can offer the things *you* want. Till then, you can either buy it, or decline to do so.

    As far as what other people spend or don't spend, that's not your affair. If someone wants to buy everything in the store, then, that's the market talking. If someone else won't give Blizzard a penny, that's their affair as well.

    Bunch of people trying to tell other people how to spend their own hard-earned money. Stay out of it, and take care of your own stuff.
    Last edited by agm114r; 2019-11-09 at 08:15 AM.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerot View Post
    Anyone else concerned they added mounts just for another things to sell MTX for? From a gameplay standpoint, it seems like an odd inclusion.
    Given the size of the maps we've seen and the size of the world map that hints at, mounts actually make a LOT of sense. That's not to say that mounts as a cosmetic draw (and thus MTX) isn't ALSO a reason, but I'd say it's a little too far-fetched to suggests they were added as "just another thing to sell MTX for". Even given D3's fairly small map sizes and decent monster densities, I still find myself wishing I had a mount for something like bounties. I expect that to only be more desirable in an even larger, even more open world.

    And with this focus on a dark and gritty artstyle, is it going to be a problem with MTX armor and public zones/towns? People want to look cool, fancy glowing armor, flaming wings, etc. Are they going to reign in the design team to make armor that looks like it belongs in a Diablo game, or are they going to try to make as much money as possible and create a variety of armor, including flashier options that wouldn't have been considered for in-game obtainable designs.
    Has this ever been a problem in Diablo? Even D2 had fancy armor effects like glows or even full-body transformations. You can still make cool shit that's within the chosen aesthetic, and with a more robust engine (as D4 seems to have) you can make even better-looking armor. I doubt they'll do outright cartoonish stuff like the Horadric Hamburger, but imaginations can run wild even if it's a dark and gritty world.

    And I wouldn't hold out hope for many additional classes down the line, because of all the class specific affixes, they're going to need to design an entire games worth of gear everytime they want to add another character. And does it make sense doing that? Or working on another dungeon for people to run, armor set or mount to sell, etc.
    It's been that way before. D2 added two classes, as did D3. Both added vast amounts of items with them. Why should this suddenly be a problem? It's not like the item system seems hugely class-specific so far - in fact, we've barely seen any class-specific itemization so far.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by agm114r View Post
    It still comes down to what you're willing to spend your money on. If you don't like how a game is offered...don't buy it.
    You build your own company, you can offer the things *you* want. Till then, you can either buy it, or decline to do so.
    That's what I always have done and will continuing doing. I'm voicing my opinion about the thread topic at hand

    Quote Originally Posted by agm114r View Post
    As far as what other people spend or don't spend, that's not your affair. If someone wants to buy everything in the store, then, that's the market talking. If someone else won't give Blizzard a penny, that's their affair as well.
    Blizzard including mtx does impact how the game is made so that's kind of all our business
    Quote Originally Posted by agm114r View Post
    Bunch of people trying to tell other people how to spend their own hard-earned money. Stay out of it, and take care of your own stuff.
    Well I never attacked anyone for how they spend their money.. I pointed out how you and a few other people don't seem to understand the difference between D4 and PoE monetization and why Blizzard takes their greed to new levels
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  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerot View Post
    And with this focus on a dark and gritty artstyle, is it going to be a problem with MTX armor and public zones/towns? People want to look cool, fancy glowing armor, flaming wings, etc. Are they going to reign in the design team to make armor that looks like it belongs in a Diablo game, or are they going to try to make as much money as possible and create a variety of armor, including flashier options that wouldn't have been considered for in-game obtainable designs. PoE has the problem of neon circus public zones, but they never made coherent artstyle a major selling point in their marketing.
    Honestly, they could just take almost any class set from WoW, wash the colours out to fit the grittier aesthetic they are going for and they would be fine. I will wait until beta when they will, presumably, test the store before I decide how bad it will be.

    If done right, cash shop cosmetics are the least offensive form of MTX to me and if it provides the ongoing revenue Blizzard want without turning into the ridiculousness of PoE (which, I have to agree, is fucking awful).

    And I wouldn't hold out hope for many additional classes down the line, because of all the class specific affixes, they're going to need to design an entire games worth of gear everytime they want to add another character. And does it make sense doing that? Or working on another dungeon for people to run, armor set or mount to sell, etc.
    Well, classes only get released with expansions, so they already are committing to making a large amount of content with that, so class specific affixes and items is just a part of that.

    The only reason the Necromancer was released as a standalone is because it was supposed to be part of the second expansion that got scrapped and they didn't want to leave D3 without any new content for the 6+ years until D4.

  18. #278
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    Since is cosmetic i have no problems with it at all.
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  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by DSRilk View Post
    CDPR begs to differ. It is *A* model.

    Also, just because something is the norm doesn't mean it's good or should be supported. Slavery was the standard business model for quite some time as I recall...

    Also, just because someone doesn't also complain about WoW MTX in a D4 thread doesn't mean them complaining about MTX in D4 is "fake".



    If the station decreased the quality of fuel and then sold sodas, chips, and beer that somehow increased the quality of the fuel, your comparison would be valid.
    Really, your argument is to compare a video game business practice to slavery? And btw, cosmetic items do not improve the quality of a game.

  20. #280
    look at poe

    the in game armor looks absolute shit

    the store armor looks amazing

    this will suck for d4 if you actually play the game nothing that you can earn will look cool and make you standout because it will be cheapened by microtransactions.

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