1. #1

    So is Torghast like dealing with mage tower like scenarios?

    I know it's supposed to be a roguelike, in the vein of games like FTL, to see how far you can go before you succumb. But if it's based on skill at higher levels, will it not effectively be similar to overcoming mage tower bosses?

    If so, I think that would be super fun. Years ago there was this hidden galaga type shooter game for a mortal kombat game on snes, and it did not seem to have an end, you just had to keep playing for higher and higher scores with ever increasing resistance and stuff to deal with. There though your ship did not become more powerful while a power advancing wow character ought to help with progression or overcome some of the skill requirements over time to some extent.

    I wonder, will there be rewards for the player on a server that was able to ascend the highest?
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  2. #2
    Yeah pretty much. But you have to be prepared for a softcap for clear lvls (like in m+), and for impalanced class experience. If the Torghast is close to the brawls, then classes with self heal or any taunt pets will have a huge advantage.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by HCLM View Post
    Yeah pretty much. But you have to be prepared for a softcap for clear lvls (like in m+), and for impalanced class experience. If the Torghast is close to the brawls, then classes with self heal or any taunt pets will have a huge advantage.
    I'll be interested to see how they build this in a way that isn't "lol pure healers don't bother soloing this" as it relates to imbalanced class experience. In a way I'm sure they feel their ass is covered on that front by allowing one to bring friends, but I'm absolutely leaning on pet classes and tanks going into shadowlands when choosing which characters will lead the way as "mains."

    As for the comparison to mage tower, honestly I see this more as islands. The only thing mage tower-y about it is the solo possibility. They aren't going to put in any hard skill checks because a) it's "main thoroughfare" content meant for everyone and b) the whole idea of a roguelike is logistical progression slowly eating away at whatever challenge it presents. It's still going to be "apply time and win," as most of WoW should be, but today's wall will be tomorrow's steamrolled levels, they're not going to put in instant death mechanics or "hope you get some twitch skills by next week" kinda checks. Bigger numbers will (and should) prevail, and bigger numbers are the guarantee of a system like this.

  4. #4
    Herald of the Titans RaoBurning's Avatar
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    I imagine it more like the Nifelheim world in the latest God of War, which has me pretty stoked. The general shape of the maze there doesn't change, but the treasure placement, trap layout, and enemy spawns are a bit different every time you go in.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Omedon View Post
    As for the comparison to mage tower, honestly I see this more as islands. The only thing mage tower-y about it is the solo possibility. They aren't going to put in any hard skill checks because a) it's "main thoroughfare" content meant for everyone and b) the whole idea of a roguelike is logistical progression slowly eating away at whatever challenge it presents. It's still going to be "apply time and win," as most of WoW should be, but today's wall will be tomorrow's steamrolled levels, they're not going to put in instant death mechanics or "hope you get some twitch skills by next week" kinda checks. Bigger numbers will (and should) prevail, and bigger numbers are the guarantee of a system like this.
    Agreed. The Mage Tower could be hard because it wasn’t such a mainline feature of the expansion. With it being advertised like this, the chances of it being based on gear or even eventually nerfed down the line are high.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Omedon View Post
    I'll be interested to see how they build this in a way that isn't "lol pure healers don't bother soloing this" as it relates to imbalanced class experience. In a way I'm sure they feel their ass is covered on that front by allowing one to bring friends, but I'm absolutely leaning on pet classes and tanks going into shadowlands when choosing which characters will lead the way as "mains."
    I'd wonder why it should be. If you're a pure healer, you probably play for group experiences. If not, nothing stops you from collecting a DPS or tank offspec set to do it.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    I'd wonder why it should be. If you're a pure healer, you probably play for group experiences. If not, nothing stops you from collecting a DPS or tank offspec set to do it.
    I'm mostly thinking of my poor priest who really has no spec to go as far as I'd like him to soloing, because his whole aesthetic is basically everything the Venthyr are bringing haha!

  8. #8
    I think it all depends on their approach. Seeing some of the choices we've seen regarding powers, we can say it looks pretty cool. The actual challenges though need to be shown. Is it all combat? Are there puzzles? Game-knowledge scenarios? From what we can tell, the choices of 'upgrading' your character involve combat, so we can safely assume it's mostly combat oriented. I wouldn't mind some cool puzzles like they added for some WoW secrets (at higher tower levels, of course) that will be a "Get to level 50 for this mount!" challenge.

    I'd really like to see them do some crazy fun stuff. Imagine adding like, a choice of Legendary power/item that is only usable in the tower (think Kael'thas in The Eye)? There's an array of fun stuff they could do, it just depends on the implementation. As someone else mentioned, since this is the main mechanic of the expansion in a way (Anima gathering), there will be some sort of accessibility as a baseline. As in, you HAVE to do Torghast to reach your cap. In that light, I don't think things will be too crazy at that baseline. But...I hope that they really throw people around at the top-end, and make it fun. We already have M+ for pushing without too much added craziness, so I hope the top-endgame of this mechanic is crazy and fun.

    1-5 man raid content almost, but approached more silly or crazy than methodical? That'd be amazing/ideal IMO.

  9. #9
    Torghast is more like island expeditions inside dungoens

    The description of both are very very same

    -they change everytime you visit
    -Requires different tacts everytime
    -you grind them , azerite for necklace , tower for legendaries
    -gives you some buffs to your abilities , like there is shrines on island expeditions
    -highly replayable

  10. #10
    In my opinion it's going to be just like greater rifts from Diablo 3(a challenge at certain levels but RNG and luck will play a massive role in the harder levels), blizz will have it tuned enough that anyone who goes in there prepared, decently gear and determined will be able to hit the "soft cap" for whatever legendary/resource they are currently farming regardless of what spec or class they are, but the just like D3 grifts, the top of the "leaderboards" official or not are going to be dominated by a specific handful of classes and specs and the top of that group will be there by sheer dumb luck and RNG.

    will be interesting to see how it plays out.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by SecretAgent View Post
    Torghast is more like island expeditions inside dungoens

    The description of both are very very same

    -they change everytime you visit
    -Requires different tacts everytime
    -you grind them , azerite for necklace , tower for legendaries
    -gives you some buffs to your abilities , like there is shrines on island expeditions
    -highly replayable
    and they also change enemy types frequently. Maybe not weekly like island expeditions, but biweekly or monthly, iirc from the blizzcon panels.

  12. #12
    it's proving grounds+mythic plus+mage tower+islands

    basically a new type of content and reward that can keep players entertained forever, maybe more than dungeons and raids, legendaries is something
    I wonder if you can basically have all slots as legendary if you're good in SL

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by pfbe View Post
    and they also change enemy types frequently. Maybe not weekly like island expeditions, but biweekly or monthly, iirc from the blizzcon panels.
    Exactly , its a cheap rehash of island expeditions with less flavor
    This time we will see the same dungoen which looks like icecrown , slightly altered each time with different mobs
    Atleast in islands we seen different environments , events , races , etc
    Plus the fact that you can play if anywhere from 1-5 will make it very abused , people will figure out what number of players is best , etc

  14. #14
    The tower is announced as a regular (weekly?) main-content for EVERYONE.
    Isle Expeditions were announced with a similar fashion and it basicly replaces that niche.

    I would place it between LEGION>SURAMAR-SCENARIO and BFA-EXPEDITIONS with a Mythic+ mini mode.

    Undertuned and gimmicky describes the content it replaces, hoping for anything else is pointless, because it is clearly announced as a base feature for EVERYONE.
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  15. #15
    Scarab Lord Maxrokur's Avatar
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    I though they are more alike to the diablo 3 rifts.
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  16. #16
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    Don't forget too that there are abilities you can find in there randomly that can actually shore up class weakness. I think the one they showed was like a pet that would essentially tank for you, which would help a lot as a healer or a DPS. Of course it relies on having a good run, but that is part of the fun with roguelites i suppose.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by SecretAgent View Post
    Exactly , its a cheap rehash of island expeditions with less flavor
    This time we will see the same dungoen which looks like icecrown , slightly altered each time with different mobs
    Atleast in islands we seen different environments , events , races , etc
    Plus the fact that you can play if anywhere from 1-5 will make it very abused , people will figure out what number of players is best , etc
    More likely, you might get rooms, enemies, encounters, etc. based on your player numbers. Seems logical (to me, maybe not Blizzard). As per replaying it, the tower can have literally any race if we're talking about the Shadowlands, because everything dies. Same dungeon? Possibly, but a tower can throw out illusions of whatever, passing it as magical whatever.

    Islands didn't offer anything but buyable items in the beginning to alter gameplay of it. The island events, later on, were pretty cool, so I imagine they expand on them in the tower. It not being timed is a huge factor to consider, meaning it's less of a race and more of a check on ability in certain areas.

  18. #18
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    I hope "rogue-like gameplay" means my rogue can actually do rogue things through most of it instead of just having to murder things to fill a progress bar.

  19. #19
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    I'd expect that the best comparison would be that Torghast is an expanded version of the withered training (Suramar) scenario with changing difficulties and layout, which is completely unlike the mage tower challenges.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    I hope "rogue-like gameplay" means my rogue can actually do rogue things through most of it instead of just having to murder things to fill a progress bar.
    "rogue-like" means very similar game systems to the game "Rogue". In the case of wow these elements can't properly exist which means that at best torghast will be a lighter version which would be called "rogue-LITE"



    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Tanks will probably have the easiest time soloing this stuff, self heals ftw.
    You can safely bet that Blizzard is adding exponential dmg taken debuffs/dmg done buffs to nearly every single enemy.
    Last edited by Morgaith; 2019-11-08 at 07:53 PM.

  20. #20
    Tanks will probably have the easiest time soloing this stuff, self heals ftw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgaith View Post
    You can safely bet that Blizzard is adding exponential dmg taken debuffs/dmg done buffs to nearly every single enemy.
    Tanks kill stuff slower, that has always been the trade off.
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