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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    He is right, you have all the tools to stop the harassment but somehow you chose to not use them. Its not just sexism dude, i've met a lot annoying people over the years which i simply blocked. Fortunately It was enough to stop but the moment if anyone would be more persistent I would send report to blizzard.

    It like saying it's all people fault mugging/robbing crime exists and police should not be needed at all, well sorry to disappoint you.



    That is how it was for a long time, unless blizzard will make mythic more accessible.
    How do you ignore or report someone in your guild that you raid with? How do you ignore them in voice comms? What do you suggest? This thread is specifically about why people don't raid, but you're treating it like it was just some random guy harassing me instead of someone in a guild I raid with that my only option is to leave the guild or keep dealing with it.

    Should I just put myself and my guild at a disadvantage by blocking a fellow raider and muting them in voice comms? Do you really think that's a viable solution?

    That is why the best solution for me is to not raid. I don't have to put up with the harassment or creeping, and guilds don't have to deal with whatever conflict comes from my only solutions to try to combat said harassment or creeping. But of course a better solution would be to just tell the one single person doing the harassing/creeping to knock it off and there wouldn't be any issue. This thread is about how to make raiding more appealing, and that's how it would be more appealing for me personally, because that is my biggest issue with it, it's too much of a hassle to deal with not wanting to get harassed or creeped on, but also not wanting to make it into a huge issue and start guild drama, so the only solution for me ultimately always just comes down to "leave the guild", and after too many times of that, I just gave up on raiding all together.
    Last edited by Flower Milk; 2019-11-11 at 08:11 PM.

  2. #202
    - If WF/TF is to exist, its cap is Mythic Raiding level or lower. No more "better than Mythic Raiding" nonsense.
    - Drop Mythic raid size to 15.
    - Bring back Master Loot, just for Mythic if you want to. Personal is garbo.
    - Shorter raids, not longer ones.
    - Weekly Raider Chest?
    - Make gear more exciting than "ugh fucking finally, I got the piece I need".
    - Better balancing on the secondary stats like we've been ASKING FOR, ION.

    That'd be a lot of nice changes in my book. The first is the biggest because why do Mythic raiding if anything can go past it?
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  3. #203
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    Just make the gear fun.

    Remove titanforging, make the raids have a natural gear ladder from difficulty to difficulty, and just make the gear fun. The natural solution would ofcourse be tier sets. I don't know why they won't do them, because they really give a unique identity to all the raids. They often make classes play differently for each raid-tier and add some spunk into the gameplay.
    I really wonder, what is to making people's fuse blow up over titanforging. For years I am trying to find an answer and there is never one, except for some useless vague crap like "maek geerz fun!" nonstarter.

    Is it causing you a physical pain when some random Billy gets TF item in LFR once in a blue moon?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    - If WF/TF is to exist, its cap is Mythic Raiding level or lower. No more "better than Mythic Raiding" nonsense.
    - Drop Mythic raid size to 15.
    - Bring back Master Loot, just for Mythic if you want to. Personal is garbo.
    - Shorter raids, not longer ones.
    - Weekly Raider Chest?

    That'd be a lot of nice changes in my book. The first is the biggest because why do Mythic raiding if anything can go past it?
    No, thank you.

  4. #204
    in my guild we just M+ over raiding because we can do it with far less people and we can't be bothered to mass recruit, merge or pug. No amount of shinies will get us to raid until we can 3-7 man it.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I really wonder, what is to making people's fuse blow up over titanforging.
    The fact that you can get a BETTER than Mythic Raiding piece from a world quest is a mockery. It's not rewarding effort, it's rewarding raw time investment, regardless of how pitifully easy the content is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    No, thank you.
    Okay cool. Do you even raid? If you did, you'd be agreeing with a lot of my points.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by CrawlFromThePit View Post
    So they're doing what they want, don't need any other incentives then.
    We do, we need to attract new blood, and having M+ be not only easier, but endlessly grindable, why would anyone start raiding?

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    How do you ignore or report someone in your guild that you raid with? How do you ignore them in voice comms? What do you suggest? This thread is specifically about why people don't raid, but you're treating it like it was just some random guy harassing me instead of someone in a guild I raid with that my only option is to leave the guild or keep dealing with it.

    Should I just put myself and my guild at a disadvantage by blocking a fellow raider and muting them in voice comms? Do you really think that's a viable solution?
    Of course you do lol, most of guilds i've been with had someone ignored and muted. Yes it is viable solution. As long as it's not raid leader.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    We do, we need to attract new blood, and having M+ be not only easier, but endlessly grindable, why would anyone start raiding?
    Especially with TF existing which means you'll likely get more geared in the end by doing M+ with an all leather/plate group and getting TFs, sharing between the group.

    The only issue is Azerite, but it's a shit system that's going away in SL so that doesn't matter I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    How do you ignore or report someone in your guild that you raid with?
    You block/mute them like I've done to a few of my guildies in the past. You also report them to Blizzard if they're being outright sexist... Or leave if it's that bad.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    For you maybe, but there is no getting away from the fact that if content does not reward players then players will not do it in most cases.

    Now, normal or HC is silly easy if you have even the most basic grasp on how to play the game of course but it is stupid that some random stuff you do out in the world gets you beter rewards.
    Your assumption is that people do not raid because it's not rewarding enough. There are plenty of other reason not to raid:

    - heavy time commitment. You generally are required to be on schedule for two (or more) days for several hours each week. That's a time commitment many people aren't willing to make nowaways. You have a very large pool of fun entertainment to pick from, raid rewards have a hard time to compete against "fun".
    - you have to be with a lot of other peoples. Chances are, the more people you have, the more likely you have to spend several hours a week with people you get not along. Yet again, something that competes with the "fun" of other entertainments. People think that 10 man killed 25 man because of the path of least resistance to gear, while part of the truth is that with 25 man you most likely had several people you didn't have fun with.
    - there's a lot of stuff in a raid that wastes time: totally boring, yet long, trash, the smoking/coffee/shitting-break people need, the guy that got a call from his mom, the guy that accidentally released, the guy that likes to argue, standing around while the leads discuss stuff and decide how to progress further... (yeah yeah, you can set strict rules for your people, but good "fun" probably doesn't look like that)

    I'll bring FFXIV's Baldesion Arsenal up now, because it's imo a rather odd existence: It was a 58 man raid in a 120 people instanced zone. To successfully clear it you had to organzie 58 people, get them in the same public instance, followed by having none of the remaing 62 people take a slot in the instance. The public instanced had bonus abilities you had to prepare for the raid. Then inside you had a strict time limit, dead is dead (ressing was very limited, required farming zone abilities, and also RNG based with a 70% chance for the rezzer to be dead), and moderately hard bosses (you also hit the enrage if people went for surviveability zone abilities instead of DPS - and mechanics could one shot).

    That thing was a massive nightmare to organize and prepare, the raid itself was comparatively difficult (for FFXIV standards) - and then you place the rewards against all of the downsides: A mount, and tokens that upgraded your gear earned in the zone with a zone specific stat (i.e you deal more dmg and take less damage in the zone - which generally was a zerg/grindfest). Yet you had people farming this content for months, organizing groups, teaching new peoples, just to help them get the mount...

    Now where does that place your "reward" for raiding?

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    You block/mute them like I've done to a few of my guildies in the past. You also report them to Blizzard if they're being outright sexist... Or leave if it's that bad.
    That is why the best solution for me is to not raid. I don't have to put up with the harassment or creeping, and guilds don't have to deal with whatever conflict comes from my only solutions to try to combat said harassment or creeping. But of course a better solution would be to just tell the one single person doing the harassing/creeping to knock it off and there wouldn't be any issue. This thread is about how to make raiding more appealing, and that's how it would be more appealing for me personally, because that is my biggest issue with it, it's too much of a hassle to deal with not wanting to get harassed or creeped on, but also not wanting to make it into a huge issue and start guild drama, so the only solution for me ultimately always just comes down to "leave the guild", and after too many times of that, I just gave up on raiding all together.
    /10characters

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaesebrezen View Post
    Your assumption is that people do not raid because it's not rewarding enough. There are plenty of other reason not to raid:
    It's part of it. If it's super duper uber rewarding, more people would do it despite the negatives.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaesebrezen View Post
    - heavy time commitment.
    Yup, including the scheduling too. I like to keep my fun unscheduled.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaesebrezen View Post
    - you have to be with a lot of other peoples.
    Killing off 10 man raiding is what ruined the Heroic (now Mythic) scene. They should have made it 15.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaesebrezen View Post
    - there's a lot of stuff in a raid that wastes time:
    Pulling G'huun just to set up warlock portals and transcendence on EVERY SINGLE PULL... Yeah it's annoying. The majority of a raid is usually downtime/fighting trash.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    /10characters
    Hey, it's your life, but saying "because one guy is an asshole therefore I don't raid", idk, that seems more of an excuse than a massive problem when I've lived through plenty of harassment (on equal or worse levels) from my guildies. Being called a faggot (specifically because he knew I was gay) 30 times a night in an intended-to-be-homophobic way by our main tank is not my cup of tea either. So I blocked him. No more problem.

    No one ever said you have to like all your guildies, though no one ever said you have to raid either. Live your life.
    Last edited by Polarthief; 2019-11-11 at 08:17 PM.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  12. #212
    Banned CrawlFromThePit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    We do, we need to attract new blood, and having M+ be not only easier, but endlessly grindable, why would anyone start raiding?
    Removing titanforging is a first step. I think Mythic raiding should have its own loot table with extra stuff that you can't get in heroic. It also needs to be flex, the biggest issue with people not wanting to do Mythic raiding is being forced to either find more people than their current team or force people to not play because they're more than 20.

  13. #213
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Okay cool. Do you even raid? If you did, you'd be agreeing with a lot of my points.
    Cutting Edge for years now. Any more questions? Armory in sig.

    Here, let me elaborate a bit.

    • TF - does not bother me, it's rare, go ahead find anyone who has better gear than me and does not raid mythic, I'll be waiting. The fact that you can't TF weapons or azerite makes this even less of a thing, aside from it being rare as fuck. As said earlier, I am not sure why I should be hot and pouty over some random Billy getting lucky TF once in a blue moon, not like he can do anything with it anyway.
    • 15 man Mythic raid? Why? I like 20 man just fine and see no reason to change. If you have issues with rooster it's your problem.
    • Master Loot? Does not bother me, after first 3-4 weeks or so Mythic Raids are open it's effectively Master Loot already anyway and it keeps things fair, as in everyone will have decent gear without officer bias or bullshit.
    • Shorter raids? Why? If anything we want longer raids, IMO 8 bosses is a bare minimum for a patch. We have cleared EP and now we have 2 months of basically doing nothing, I could use extra 2 bosses or so.
    • Weekly raid chest - that's the only one that would be nice instead of M+ chest.

    So eh?

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Cutting Edge for years now. Any more questions? Armory in sig.
    And you honestly think Mythic Raiding is worth your time and rewarding enough? I don't even know what to say to you. You're defending awful designs at this point. There's a reason why raiding has been on the decline for years now, despite mechanically, they've been pretty damn good raids as of late.

    If you're doing it purely for the challenge and nothing else, then yeah, you're not really contributing to the conversation as you'll *always* just do it for the challenge. I would if it didn't eat up so much time and I had to do it with 19 other idiots, but I've just been fed up with it as of late.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  15. #215
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    The fact that you can get a BETTER than Mythic Raiding piece from a world quest is a mockery. It's not rewarding effort, it's rewarding raw time investment, regardless of how pitifully easy the content is.
    Who the fuck cares? So some guy will get a WQ item blasted off to 455? What are the chances of that exactly? And then who says it will even be useful and not some shit trinket or some slot that is reserved by benthic anyway. Weapons and Armor can't TF and these are the biggest boosters there. Pair of gloves goes TF? OooooOOOoOOooo

    Puhlease...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    And you honestly think Mythic Raiding is worth your time and rewarding enough? I don't even know what to say to you. You're defending awful designs at this point. There's a reason why raiding has been on the decline for years now, despite mechanically, they've been pretty damn good raids as of late.

    If you're doing it purely for the challenge and nothing else, then yeah, you're not really contributing to the conversation as you'll *always* just do it for the challenge. I would if it didn't eat up so much time and I had to do it with 19 other idiots, but I've just been fed up with it as of late.
    Yes?

    I spend total 6 hours a week raiding and that gives me absolute bleeding edge best gear there is that you can't match by any other activity?

    So some lucky guy might go ahead and TF some trinket or shit like that and? Can he TF my tripple Overwhelming Power Azerite? Or maybe TF my M.Azshara staff? Nope... Can he TF benthic harder than what I have? Nope...

    So who the f cares?

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Who the fuck cares? So some guy will get a WQ item blasted off to 455? What are the chances of that exactly? And then who says it will even be useful and not some shit trinket or some slot that is reserved by benthic anyway. Weapons and Armor can't TF and these are the biggest boosters there. Pair of gloves goes TF? OooooOOOoOOooo

    Puhlease...
    I guess big leg TFs don't matter. As far as why you should care, person who does Mythic Raiding for the challenge, it doesn't reward your efforts correctly. It feels shitty to get something that's better than mythic raiding just by doing some shitty WQ or a dungeon (that isn't even at least a +10). Sorry if you don't feel that, but many of us do and it's a shit-tier feeling.

    PS: With Azerite going away in SL, you might as well stop talking about it since, once it happens, oh look 2 more big boy slots (Helm/Chest) are also TFable again (also Shoulder which isn't as high up but is still a medium-high budget slot).
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    Should I just put myself and my guild at a disadvantage by blocking a fellow raider and muting them in voice comms? Do you really think that's a viable solution?
    Yeah, I did mute a guy on discord, not even due to harassment but because he was spamming memes all the time and it stopped being funny after 2-3 raids tops. And tbh most guilds would actually tell the trouble maker to shut up or mute him / kick him from discord if he spams, makes drama or whatever else. I find it weird you've said in 10 or so guilds the officers / gms never reacted. In most guilds there's banter and idle chit chat but when bosses are being progressed on, people have to shut up and listen to the raid leader instead of doing their small talk and wiping.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    It like saying it's all people fault mugging/robbing crime exists and police should not be needed at all, well sorry to disappoint you.
    The problem starts when police exists, but doesn't do anything to stop crime. In the same aspect I don't understand how guild management could not react when issues are brought up. In some cases, okay, maybe it's a bro of GM and GM is biased. But that's not a norm.

    I'd say in every guild I was there were people we wouldn't get along well, but it usually wasn't due to anything else than playstyle and attitude, so usually how it ended was trying to avoid each other outside of raids. Tbh other people did the same, in my last guild there were 2 dudes than thought of each other that the other one is a noob and sucks at his class, and would refuse to group together for m+ and whatnot.

  18. #218
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    I guess big leg TFs don't matter. As far as why you should care, person who does Mythic Raiding for the challenge, it doesn't reward your efforts correctly. It feels shitty to get something that's better than mythic raiding just by doing some shitty WQ or a dungeon (that isn't even at least a +10). Sorry if you don't feel that, but many of us do and it's a shit-tier feeling.
    Yes it does not matter, because the chance of that is so small that it's non-factor. None of the important pieces can TF nowadays aside from trinkets. Trinket is the only that can and that's only one slot out of 14, that's still nothing.

    So tell me, should I bawl if I see some random scrub with 455 LFR Font of Azshara? Why? Rest of his gear is shit and I'll wreck him 10 times over. It doesn't make me bitter any, not sure why you should be so shocked there. And that's like winning bloody lottery ticket right there.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Yes it does not matter, because the chance of that is so small that it's non-factor. None of the important pieces can't TF nowadays. Trinket is the only that can and that's only one slot out of 14, that's still nothing.
    Except it still happens, enough to be annoying to many, and again, Azerite won't matter in SL when we don't have it anymore.
    PS: Two trinkets.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  20. #220
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Except it still happens, enough to be annoying to many, and again, Azerite won't matter in SL when we don't have it anymore.
    PS: Two trinkets.
    Well then these "many" need to be stop being dickbags, frankly. If some guy gets a great item once in a blue moon out of activity your holiness considers unworthy, the what of it? Just cheer for the guy and move along, you are still wrecking him in 13 other gear slots as Mythic Raider.

    Some people are just dicks really. Should we design systems around spiteful people pouting over what others get? Not sure about it.

    And instead of Azerite you will have some other slots from raid locked that can't TF, hurr. Whether it's Azerite, Set or Whatever it will be the same.

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