What rewards does raiding need to make it more appealing?

[Flurryfang]

I really wonder, what is to making people's fuse blow up over titanforging. For years I am trying to find an answer and there is never one, except for some useless vague crap like "maek geerz fun!" nonstarter.

Is it causing you a physical pain when some random Billy gets TF item in LFR once in a blue moon?

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No, thank you.

It really has little to do with other people get. Its more about my own experience with getting gear not really suited for the content i play.

Lets imagine, that i am the only person in the world who gets TF. Then we remove the possibility of butthurt over other peoples gear. I go into normal raid, i get TF, suddenly i have a head piece, which is heroic tier, if not better.
I clear normal raid content and end up getting about 4 pieces of TF with heroic quality or better.(Im not a speedy raider)
I go into heroic difficulty and from the very start, 4 gear slots of gear is already useless. If a boss drops a helment with TF, its now suddenly useless.
So i went from one difficulty to another, and suddenly the chance for rewards is now lower instead of having been reset.

TF makes it so that jumping from difficulty to difficulty becomes less and less rewarding, as you over time get TF pieces, that are just better than what you will get in the future. The entire idea about jumping from normal to Heroic(or heroic to mythic), is that you are resetting your supply, making all drops valid again. TF creates a situation, where instead of being 100% rewarded for increasing your own difficulty, you might end up with tossing away 50% of the gear you get from killing new bosses.

So again, it really has nothing to with other people having better gear or anything. It is all about messing up the gear ladder experience set up by the difficulty system.

[Th3Scourge]

That is absolutely irrelevant. As people here said, finding time with fixed schedule and organizing 20 people is the main barrier, not rewards. Also, one lucky TF doesn't make you even remotely close to mythic raiders.

It is relevant, and I don't agree with the anecdotal evidence around fixed scheduling. If you want to raid, and specifically want to raid at higher difficulties, then your only option is to make the time for it. It requires a significant level of coordination. If you aren't willing or unable to commit to a certain degree of coordination of both time and ability, then there's not much more that can be done

As for the rewards, that is what is appealing to me, and has been echoed by others. Whether those rewards are item related, titles, mounts, Cutting Edge etc all form part of what is appealing to me as a mythic raider. The reward should reflect the level of content


I don't know what to tell you. Raiding requires coordination, especially mythic raiding. If you can't coordinate your schedule, then it's probably not for you.

[kaminaris]

It is relevant, and I don't agree with the anecdotal evidence around fixed scheduling. If you want to raid, and specifically want to raid at higher difficulties, then your only option is to make the time for it. It requires a significant level of coordination. If you aren't willing or unable to commit to a certain degree of coordination of both time and ability, then there's not much more that can be done

As for the rewards, that is what is appealing to me, and has been echoed by others. Whether those rewards are item related, titles, mounts, Cutting Edge etc all form part of what is appealing to me as a mythic raider. The reward should reflect the level of content


I don't know what to tell you. Raiding requires coordination, especially mythic raiding. If you can't coordinate your schedule, then it's probably not for you.

And they DO reflect level of content, you ARE getting best gear from mythic, GUARANTEED. Unique transmog, mythic only mount, cutting edge.

Face the reality, it's not rewards you want, you want long forgotten memories of your first mythic kill.

[Gsara]

Bring back 10m raiding and I can damn near without a doubt guarantee the raiding community will triple in size. Raiding has never had the numbers that it had when 10 and 25 was the raid sizes and since then raiding has done nothing but shrink over time in the game. Nothing Blizzard does now will get people to do mythic raids if they arent already doing them now.

[evertonbelmontt]

Masterloot.

15man raiding.

Faction Barrier gone for PVE. Some people want to raid high ending but don't want to leave alliance friends behind.

[grandgato]

In my case, absolutely nothing. My days of committing to an organized raid group are long gone. Too many other games and things to occupy my time.

Mythic+, and other Small Group Content keeps me subscribed.

[Aphrel]

I think the best solution to entice people into mythic is to gate some of the content in higher difficulties.
Weve often had mythic only phases as a carrot.
Be4 we also had mythic/heroic only bosses (Sinestra and algalon is probobly the most successful example here).

But thats only for enticing mythic raiders to keep pushing.
How we are going to entice players to do heroic or even normal raiding when equally powerful gear are so easily farmable in mythic+ i dont know.

I feel like they set the difficulty bar on M+ WAY too low. Almost every single player in my very casual guild (6hours/week raiding) did a m+10 the first week it was availible. And that was mostly done with ilvl lower than normal raids.

I think M+ being so easy really hurts normal/heroic raiding alot. I think they should cahnge it so that doing an M+10 intime should be of equal difficulty as the last boss in heroic.

[Gaidax]

No it is not, dealing with other personal issues of your raid mates doesn't come with GM responsibilities. It is bound to happen that people within your guild may not like each other, and it does happen. GM is not your nanny or daddy so you can come to and cry about bullies. GM have no obligation to resolve people personal matters.
It's damn game, not school simulator.

GM handles heavy stuff like shitstorms across raiders, especially on open voice, but not some whispers and personal issues.
You go straight to blizzard if it indeed was harassment.

Try using your imagination a bit. How the hell GM was suppose to truly know what happened? He doesn't have chat logs.

My bet is, it wasn't as serious as she said otherwise there would be no reason to not file a complaint straight to blizzard.

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Again, think about it for a second, one side will tell what happened, the other one will tell it never happened. Who is he suppose to believe? Forging screenshot isn't really hard. GM should handle open voice, open guild messages disputes, not personal matters.

That's not the point. Nobody in the guild leadership is going to start do judging and shit taking one side or the other, just deal with it by mediation. Guilds that don't settle bullshit between raiders end up exploding with some shitty drama eventually. Guilds that do settle - live a long and nice life.

That's how it works really.

[Tamurello]

people dont seem to get that the people who are going to mythic raid are mythic raiding already, no-one is going to start mythic raiding because they nerf mythic plus or whatever. Its 2019 most people dont have so many hours to devote to getting a raid organized or signing up for a second unpaid job, if they nerf mythic plus they will seriously damage the game as thats challenging content that doesnt require a massive logisitics effort.

[Axaion]

None, its bad enough to need high end raid gear to do high end m+ as is.

[Vilendor]

Make mythic gear 20% better than the best possible gear from lower difficulties, including forging.

For me this is what killed raiding. Because that's how it works now. Why bother if in 3 months everything on my character will be obsolete and the daily catch up world quests give better gear? The gear jump is way too high and stupid, makes me feel always lagging behind and worthless, so i don't even bother any more.

[Accendor]

I think it's great that game gives occasional nice surprise to the people and this is so rare, that it's really nowhere near becoming actual "issue". You don't have casuals spamming WQs rocking 445 ilvl. Heck you barely have anyone who actually managed to get even one actually great TF item from WQs.

The shit is so rare.

1. As you can see by the amount of people complaining about it, its an issue.

2. It really, really is not rare at all. Believe me, if you do 6 hours of m+10 grinding a week instead of 6 hours of mythic raiding, the amount of titanforged gear will blow your mind. I can not remember the last time I finished a +10 or higher and not at least ONE person in the group got a titanforged piece (even if he didn't needed it)

[The Butt Witch]

None more that I could think of.

No, wait, I guess earning reputation with a certain faction for each boss kill, would be cool.

[Cosmic Janitor]

None, its bad enough to need high end raid gear to do high end m+ as is.

Lol, the same is true in reverse for raiding on all levels. Most raiding guilds (heroic and higher) will demand that you do at least your bare minimum m+ run, even if you are sick of the same shitty dungeons you have been running for a year now.

[Wyrt]

Trinkets that are consistently better.

Trinkets are the most impactful piece of gear now that tier sets are gone. Having to go grind out the same mythic+ or world boss hoping for a titanforge for your BiS trinket every raid tier because raid trinkets are just not good is not fun at all.

The rest of the gear is just which secondary stats are on them, which is important for min/maxing, but is overall not as impactful as trinkets are.

[Gaidax]

1. As you can see by the amount of people complaining about it, its an issue.

2. It really, really is not rare at all. Believe me, if you do 6 hours of m+10 grinding a week instead of 6 hours of mythic raiding, the amount of titanforged gear will blow your mind. I can not remember the last time I finished a +10 or higher and not at least ONE person in the group got a titanforged piece (even if he didn't needed it)

I can do 100 hours of M+ a week and I still won't have M.Azshara Staff or triple OP 445 Azerite with perfect traits, then I have another 4 slots of gear reserved to socketed benthic which is simply ultimate bis. Best trinkets - raid. So what exactly I'm going to get from grinding M+? one socketed ring if it happens to TF AND get a socket?

lulz, boy.

I'll tell it plainly right now, with my 6 hours a week of Mythic raiding I am guaranteed to have literally best gear ingame and no amount of TF in M+ can come close to that.

As for "amount of people complaining" - these forums are filled with elitist wannabes who mostly can't do shit really, but bitch about how others get loot they want. It's like with LFR - people sure moan about it here, but in reality it is by far the most used mode of raiding ingame and there are legitimately a lot of people who like it that way, because they don't give rat's ass about this pseudo-elitism going on here.

Quite honestly this whole "maek raidzz mroe rewardingz, TF iz killing uss" is sprouted mostly by Heroic raiders who feel threatened by M+. No wonder, ilvls match there. Mythic raider? You have best gear by far hands down already.

[Th3Scourge]

And they DO reflect level of content, you ARE getting best gear from mythic, GUARANTEED. Unique transmog, mythic only mount, cutting edge.

Face the reality, it's not rewards you want, you want long forgotten memories of your first mythic kill.

What are you talking about, I can get better than mythic quality loot from any difficulty

[Zeusy]

TBH Mythic raiding doesn't need to be more appealing itself. Committing to a schedule raid for the best rewards in game is completely fine. It already has unique shades and gear that no one else gets.

The only reason I stopped doing endgame raiding is because the prestige felt lost when cross realms were added as well as transmogrify and I no longer felt the physical connection to every person on the server, and that they were "badasses". Wotlk/ early Cata I knew every top raider on my server and always enjoyed running by in the major city to see who had the best gear. Now anyone I see on my server is either from a different realm or is in gear that doesn't show me "wow, i want to do mythic raids/challenge dungeons as well".

I really wish blizzard came up with a list of realms to cut, give free transfers off those, then deleted like 50-60% of them, maintained horde/alliance balance while doing so, then removed cross realm zones and just kept LFR/LFG etc cross realm only. This way you could still cross realm for raids but the rest of the content could stay server based and you could build a server community again.

[Eapoe]

I can do 100 hours of M+ a week and I still won't have M.Azshara Staff or triple OP 445 Azerite with perfect traits, then I have another 4 slots of gear reserved to socketed benthic which is simply ultimate bis. Best trinkets - raid. So what exactly I'm going to get from grinding M+? one socketed ring if it happens to TF AND get a socket?

lulz, boy.

I'll tell it plainly right now, with my 6 hours a week of Mythic raiding I am guaranteed to have literally best gear ingame and no amount of TF in M+ can come close to that.

As for "amount of people complaining" - these forums are filled with elitist wannabes who mostly can't do shit really, but bitch about how others get loot they want. It's like with LFR - people sure moan about it here, but in reality it is by far the most used mode of raiding ingame and there are legitimately a lot of people who like it that way, because they don't give rat's ass about this pseudo-elitism going on here.

Quite honestly this whole "maek raidzz mroe rewardingz, TF iz killing uss" is sprouted mostly by Heroic raiders who feel threatened by M+. No wonder, ilvls match there. Mythic raider? You have best gear by far hands down already.

This doesn’t always hold true for every spec/class. Not every tier piece from raid has BiS traits compared to what you get from Residuum. Not every trinket from raid is better than a trinket from m+.
Certain rings and off pieces also have better stats, or have access to rings with your 2 best stats, something you don’t get in mythic raids. Weapons can also have better itemization.
That said, in a well off mythic raid team, you are more than likely correct. That said, doing m+ 6 hours a week also have the same opportunities as raiding, minus Azerite pieces, which I’ve stated you can still obtain thru Residuum (albeit much, much slower).
Benthic pieces only matter as BiS in Nazjatar and the raid itself. Outside of those places then higher ilvl with better stats/sockets are better.

After all that, Benthic gear is a great example of how I feel gear should be handled. Make high ilvl pieces in both raids and m+ that function in just those areas and the world. Have them scale down lower in the opposite instances. Make them truly separate gearing and playstyle choices and options, instead of one that competes with the other.

[huth]

He is not your superior or your dad.

Yes, they are. It's even in the name of the position.

And hitting on a somebody that doesn't want to be hit on repeatedly definitely is harassment. Also, everything that involves two parties with differing views is a dispute.

You're massively simplifying the situation to fit your arguments and overly focussing on one specific issue. Not every case is severe enough for Blizzard to take action, but may be bad enough to ruin the climate within the guild.