Frost Mage 8.2.5 Questions

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

So Kuni wrote on Icy Veins that you don’t cast ice lances even if it procs unless you’re moving is this true?

And also he wrote spam frostbolt and don’t use glacial spike until flurry is procced. Is this true?


So the rotation would be
Icy Veins
Frozen Orb on CD
Frostbolt until glacial spike
Glacial spike if flurry is up
Spam frostbolt as filler
Use Blizzard for AoE

[Trumpcat]

Yes, it's true.

For AoE: Frozen Orb, Blizzard, Cone of Cold

You can use Frost Nova and your elemental's Freeze to shatter your Glacial Spike/Blizzard/Frozen Orb/Cone of Cold.

Depending on whether you picked Ebonbolt you use that to generate a Flurry for Glacial Spike.

Ice Lance only on movement and if procced or need to finish off a low mob or pop Explosives affix.

Always use Glacial Spike on 5 Icicles if it will hit two targets via Splitting Ice.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

So Kuni wrote on Icy Veins that you don’t cast ice lances even if it procs unless you’re moving is this true?

No-Ice Lance is, for just about every gear level that's not sub-LFR, superior. Kind of depressing, but it has to do with how strong Mastery is. Flash Freeze's interaction with Mastery, on top of the 8.2 Mastery buff/GS nerf-buff, broke the spec.

And also he wrote spam frostbolt and don’t use glacial spike until flurry is procced. Is this true?

Icicles themselves are half decent damage, but forcing all 5 to (probably) crit via Shatter is the larger gain. That's standard across even normal Frost that uses Ice Lance.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

So the rotation is really that simple? It’s so simple that I feel like this isn’t how it’s supposed to be played 0.o

[Kuni Zyrekai]

So the rotation is really that simple? It’s so simple that I feel like this isn’t how it’s supposed to be played 0.o

It's definitely broken, yes. It's not meant to be played like this, and should be fixed on Blizz's end, but until they nerf Flash Freeze and throw us a global buff by about 10-15%, it will remain.

Flash Freeze, when specced into Glacial Spike, applies its damage as FF pool*5*(Icicle coeff/GS base coeff). Which means when they buffed Mastery 15% and nerfed GS's base damage in 8.2, they functionally buffed the everloving fuck out of Flash Freeze. It's why Mastery's DPS/point is over 6, where other secondary stats are 4.x, and Int is down at 2.x. Because Ice Lance doesn't interact with Icicles in any fashion, it dropped out of use, and we just stack Mastery to hell and back.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Got any weakauras for incantors flow?

[Pigglix]

i am kinda confused about the NO-IL build.

I mean, even if i get a FoF proc i shouldnt cast IL? If yes, then why? With Glacial Spike you wont fire off all of the others icicles, so its more beneficial to not "waste" a gcd with ice lance even if FoF proc? Just keep spamming frostbolt to fish for a BF proc and that's it?

[Lollis]

i am kinda confused about the NO-IL build.

I mean, even if i get a FoF proc i shouldnt cast IL? If yes, then why? With Glacial Spike you wont fire off all of the others icicles, so its more beneficial to not "waste" a gcd with ice lance even if FoF proc? Just keep spamming frostbolt to fish for a BF proc and that's it?

The deal with no-icelance is that you want to get as many Icicles and therefore Glacial Spikes out as fast as possible. Casting Icelance delays the creation of faster Glacial Spikes specifically because of the global cooldown and the dps you gain from an icelance crit is worth less than the Icicle you'd have gained from casting frostbolt. The difference in worth between an icelance and an icicle gets bigger the more mastery (and haste) that you have.

I'm not in game right now, but my big Glacial Spikes are critting above 340k or so while my big icelances are probably closer to 40k, basically meaning one Icicle is worth about 68k, presuming a crit of course.

In a hypothetical situation where you aren't critting or brain freeze isn't proccing at all, then icelance would still be in the rotation but as it stands that situation just doesn't really happen.

[Pigglix]

I see, thanks for the explanation!

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

The deal with no-icelance is that you want to get as many Icicles and therefore Glacial Spikes out as fast as possible. Casting Icelance delays the creation of faster Glacial Spikes specifically because of the global cooldown and the dps you gain from an icelance crit is worth less than the Icicle you'd have gained from casting frostbolt. The difference in worth between an icelance and an icicle gets bigger the more mastery (and haste) that you have.

I'm not in game right now, but my big Glacial Spikes are critting above 340k or so while my big icelances are probably closer to 40k, basically meaning one Icicle is worth about 68k, presuming a crit of course.

In a hypothetical situation where you aren't critting or brain freeze isn't proccing at all, then icelance would still be in the rotation but as it stands that situation just doesn't really happen.

This helped me as well. Saw huge increase in DPS!

[Cracka_Bob]

I just hit 120 the other day on my Mage, so my question is: at what point (either ilvl or stats) does Ice Lance become unusable? Also, does this mean we stop using it after Flurry as well? By this I mean do we use Glacial Spike > Flurry > Ice Lance or do we ignore IL even in that situation as well?

[nickseng]

I just hit 120 the other day on my Mage, so my question is: at what point (either ilvl or stats) does Ice Lance become unusable? Also, does this mean we stop using it after Flurry as well? By this I mean do we use Glacial Spike > Flurry > Ice Lance or do we ignore IL even in that situation as well?

You stop using IL when you specifically build for it (3xFF, tons of mastery, etc). Otherwise, use IL as normal.

[Lollis]

I just hit 120 the other day on my Mage, so my question is: at what point (either ilvl or stats) does Ice Lance become unusable? Also, does this mean we stop using it after Flurry as well? By this I mean do we use Glacial Spike > Flurry > Ice Lance or do we ignore IL even in that situation as well?

I can't point to an exact mastery level but you do need 3xFlash Freeze. Best bet is to just throw an icelance and a no-icelance sim in raidbots.
No Icelance apl is : rotation=no_ice_lance

But yes, even in Glacial Spike > Flurry you just go straight back to using Frostbolt. The ONLY time you use Ice Lance is when moving (or killing critters)

[Cracka_Bob]

The ONLY time you use Ice Lance is when moving (or killing critters)

Oh thank God. I almost wasted a Frostbolt on those fuckers.

[Rynian]

You stop using IL when you specifically build for it (3xFF, tons of mastery, etc). Otherwise, use IL as normal.

What's the ideal mastery level for this? 20%? I have three Flash Freezes at the moment...

[nickseng]

There really isn't an ideal amount. Just try to get as much as possible, including enchants and gems.

[fujiapples]

what about stat priority for m+ as frost? mastery > everything as well?
i've checked raider.io but everybody have different stats, someone going full haste, someone stays mastery, someone's going crit.

[gallamann]

what about stat priority for m+ as frost? mastery > everything as well?
i've checked raider.io but everybody have different stats, someone going full haste, someone stays mastery, someone's going crit.

Need to know which spec a player is playing,

Frozen Orb build does not stack mastery. (should have 3xPacked Ice on azerite gear, won't be talented into GS)

Whereas the No IL GS build stacks mastery. (should have 3xFlash Freeze on azerite gear, will be talented into GS)

Last I saw w/8.3, FO build sims best, No IL GS Build sims better than normal GS build by ~3%. That sim info is about a month old, so could be wrong now.

[nickseng]

Last I saw w/8.3, FO build sims best, No IL GS Build sims better than normal GS build by ~3%. That sim info is about a month old, so could be wrong now.

Yeah, latest sims has NoIL best among the Frost specs again.

[fujiapples]

Need to know which spec a player is playing,

Frozen Orb build does not stack mastery. (should have 3xPacked Ice on azerite gear, won't be talented into GS)

Whereas the No IL GS build stacks mastery. (should have 3xFlash Freeze on azerite gear, will be talented into GS)

Last I saw w/8.3, FO build sims best, No IL GS Build sims better than normal GS build by ~3%. That sim info is about a month old, so could be wrong now.

Thanks for clarification, bro.

Can i ask one more question my fellow mages thats bothering me:
whats best build for m+ if i got 3xPacked Ice and 3xFlash Freeze traits?
I raid as fire so i dont want to touch that gear, and my frost gear is a mess - trying to change available gear pieces from haste/vers to something
else i ended up having every stat being equal(around 1k each)