1. #1

    Question Frost Mage 8.2.5 Questions

    So Kuni wrote on Icy Veins that you don’t cast ice lances even if it procs unless you’re moving is this true?

    And also he wrote spam frostbolt and don’t use glacial spike until flurry is procced. Is this true?


    So the rotation would be
    Icy Veins
    Frozen Orb on CD
    Frostbolt until glacial spike
    Glacial spike if flurry is up
    Spam frostbolt as filler
    Use Blizzard for AoE
    "You know you that bitch when you cause all this conversation."

  2. #2
    Yes, it's true.

    For AoE: Frozen Orb, Blizzard, Cone of Cold

    You can use Frost Nova and your elemental's Freeze to shatter your Glacial Spike/Blizzard/Frozen Orb/Cone of Cold.

    Depending on whether you picked Ebonbolt you use that to generate a Flurry for Glacial Spike.

    Ice Lance only on movement and if procced or need to finish off a low mob or pop Explosives affix.

    Always use Glacial Spike on 5 Icicles if it will hit two targets via Splitting Ice.
    Last edited by Trumpcat; 2019-11-10 at 01:51 AM.

  3. #3
    Herald of the Titans Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    So Kuni wrote on Icy Veins that you don’t cast ice lances even if it procs unless you’re moving is this true?
    No-Ice Lance is, for just about every gear level that's not sub-LFR, superior. Kind of depressing, but it has to do with how strong Mastery is. Flash Freeze's interaction with Mastery, on top of the 8.2 Mastery buff/GS nerf-buff, broke the spec.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    And also he wrote spam frostbolt and don’t use glacial spike until flurry is procced. Is this true?
    Icicles themselves are half decent damage, but forcing all 5 to (probably) crit via Shatter is the larger gain. That's standard across even normal Frost that uses Ice Lance.

  4. #4
    So the rotation is really that simple? It’s so simple that I feel like this isn’t how it’s supposed to be played 0.o
    "You know you that bitch when you cause all this conversation."

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    So the rotation is really that simple? It’s so simple that I feel like this isn’t how it’s supposed to be played 0.o
    It's definitely broken, yes. It's not meant to be played like this, and should be fixed on Blizz's end, but until they nerf Flash Freeze and throw us a global buff by about 10-15%, it will remain.

    Flash Freeze, when specced into Glacial Spike, applies its damage as FF pool*5*(Icicle coeff/GS base coeff). Which means when they buffed Mastery 15% and nerfed GS's base damage in 8.2, they functionally buffed the everloving fuck out of Flash Freeze. It's why Mastery's DPS/point is over 6, where other secondary stats are 4.x, and Int is down at 2.x. Because Ice Lance doesn't interact with Icicles in any fashion, it dropped out of use, and we just stack Mastery to hell and back.

  6. #6
    Got any weakauras for incantors flow?
    "You know you that bitch when you cause all this conversation."

  7. #7
    Dreadlord Pigglix's Avatar
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    i am kinda confused about the NO-IL build.

    I mean, even if i get a FoF proc i shouldnt cast IL? If yes, then why? With Glacial Spike you wont fire off all of the others icicles, so its more beneficial to not "waste" a gcd with ice lance even if FoF proc? Just keep spamming frostbolt to fish for a BF proc and that's it?

  8. #8
    The Lightbringer Lollis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pigglix View Post
    i am kinda confused about the NO-IL build.

    I mean, even if i get a FoF proc i shouldnt cast IL? If yes, then why? With Glacial Spike you wont fire off all of the others icicles, so its more beneficial to not "waste" a gcd with ice lance even if FoF proc? Just keep spamming frostbolt to fish for a BF proc and that's it?
    The deal with no-icelance is that you want to get as many Icicles and therefore Glacial Spikes out as fast as possible. Casting Icelance delays the creation of faster Glacial Spikes specifically because of the global cooldown and the dps you gain from an icelance crit is worth less than the Icicle you'd have gained from casting frostbolt. The difference in worth between an icelance and an icicle gets bigger the more mastery (and haste) that you have.

    I'm not in game right now, but my big Glacial Spikes are critting above 340k or so while my big icelances are probably closer to 40k, basically meaning one Icicle is worth about 68k, presuming a crit of course.

    In a hypothetical situation where you aren't critting or brain freeze isn't proccing at all, then icelance would still be in the rotation but as it stands that situation just doesn't really happen.
    Last edited by Lollis; 2019-11-12 at 05:35 AM.
    Speciation Is Gradual

  9. #9
    Dreadlord Pigglix's Avatar
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    I see, thanks for the explanation!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Lollis View Post
    The deal with no-icelance is that you want to get as many Icicles and therefore Glacial Spikes out as fast as possible. Casting Icelance delays the creation of faster Glacial Spikes specifically because of the global cooldown and the dps you gain from an icelance crit is worth less than the Icicle you'd have gained from casting frostbolt. The difference in worth between an icelance and an icicle gets bigger the more mastery (and haste) that you have.

    I'm not in game right now, but my big Glacial Spikes are critting above 340k or so while my big icelances are probably closer to 40k, basically meaning one Icicle is worth about 68k, presuming a crit of course.

    In a hypothetical situation where you aren't critting or brain freeze isn't proccing at all, then icelance would still be in the rotation but as it stands that situation just doesn't really happen.
    This helped me as well. Saw huge increase in DPS!
    "You know you that bitch when you cause all this conversation."

  11. #11
    I just hit 120 the other day on my Mage, so my question is: at what point (either ilvl or stats) does Ice Lance become unusable? Also, does this mean we stop using it after Flurry as well? By this I mean do we use Glacial Spike > Flurry > Ice Lance or do we ignore IL even in that situation as well?
    Oh yes, there is a method to my madness O.o
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    We generally consider 0 / 0 / 71 builds to be a failure.
    ^win

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracka_Bob View Post
    I just hit 120 the other day on my Mage, so my question is: at what point (either ilvl or stats) does Ice Lance become unusable? Also, does this mean we stop using it after Flurry as well? By this I mean do we use Glacial Spike > Flurry > Ice Lance or do we ignore IL even in that situation as well?
    You stop using IL when you specifically build for it (3xFF, tons of mastery, etc). Otherwise, use IL as normal.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Lollis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cracka_Bob View Post
    I just hit 120 the other day on my Mage, so my question is: at what point (either ilvl or stats) does Ice Lance become unusable? Also, does this mean we stop using it after Flurry as well? By this I mean do we use Glacial Spike > Flurry > Ice Lance or do we ignore IL even in that situation as well?
    I can't point to an exact mastery level but you do need 3xFlash Freeze. Best bet is to just throw an icelance and a no-icelance sim in raidbots.
    No Icelance apl is : rotation=no_ice_lance

    But yes, even in Glacial Spike > Flurry you just go straight back to using Frostbolt. The ONLY time you use Ice Lance is when moving (or killing critters)
    Speciation Is Gradual

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Lollis View Post
    The ONLY time you use Ice Lance is when moving (or killing critters)
    Oh thank God. I almost wasted a Frostbolt on those fuckers.
    Oh yes, there is a method to my madness O.o
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    We generally consider 0 / 0 / 71 builds to be a failure.
    ^win

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