Page 13 of 28 FirstFirst ...
3
11
12
13
14
15
23
... LastLast
  1. #241
    Banned Soon-TM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Netherstorm
    Posts
    5,993
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    Those gaps Ret has? They used to be all filled up, mostly with utility. It's all gone, and playing a Ret is a pale shadow of what it once was.
    Agreed. Ret is nothing but a yellow warrior at this point, with very limited utility, little to no offhealing (which used to be its distinctive feature) and crap mobility. So much for mUh 36 DifFerEnT cLaSsEs, lmao

    As for the topic at hand, I welcome it with open arms - in principle. But if they are going to keep the crappy design of e.g. shadow priest as it is, and they just slap Flash Heal and Smite on top... Then it would be just meh.

  2. #242
    Warchief Gungnir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Nifelheim
    Posts
    2,023
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    I get that it would be an impossible nightmare to balance it but again, WoW is never gonna be esports so why not embrace the fun factor?

    There are specs in the past id pick up and play forever even tho I can’t stomach the current iteration (demo lock, looking at you)

    We can pick which expac we wanna level up in; complete the circle and allow which spec of the past to select and play if that is what one desires
    Likely because people for some reason absolutely hate it when they're not on top of the meters, so you'd have a lot of people being pissed that their favourite iteration of the spec isn't "viable".
    And I use that in a loose sense since people seem to think viable means top of the boards.


    I personally want to play certain iterations of certain specs as I just found them to be a lot more fun, but I doubt we'll ever get that choice.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    Likely because people for some reason absolutely hate it when they're not on top of the meters, so you'd have a lot of people being pissed that their favourite iteration of the spec isn't "viable".
    And I use that in a loose sense since people seem to think viable means top of the boards.


    I personally want to play certain iterations of certain specs as I just found them to be a lot more fun, but I doubt we'll ever get that choice.
    Same. It’s the fun factor for me not about epeen measurement.

    Some specs of yesteryear were just simply significantly more fun

  4. #244
    I like spec identity as well.

  5. #245
    hope i can dual wield once again with my brewmaster and can choose a two hander with my windwalker and bringing back reforging would be sweet to to many dead items they would be an uprade if reforging would return

  6. #246
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    727
    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    Personally, I think sub was perfect in Cataclysm, was one of the few things that expansion did right.
    Cata was the first time I managed to level a Rogue, and I went Sub all the way. It was great, and I miss it. I seem to recall MoP's Sub being okay, but Cata was the best. I used to farm dragonscales in the Highlands with my Rogue in Cata - Shadowstep, Ambush, Backstab, skin, repeat.

  7. #247
    Banned Soon-TM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Netherstorm
    Posts
    5,993
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowsgrace View Post
    no, because I to am a Mage main, since TBC, and hate the fact that I don't have access to Blizzard as Fire. Flamestrike as my "sole AoE" is garbage.
    I still remember those Hyjal raids, when my Arcane Mage cast Flamestrike, then Blizzard on those waves of trash, slowing any astray adds with Slow/Cone of Cold/r1 frostbolt. That really made you feel like a MAGE, instead of the idiot savant of the latest iterations of WoW.

  8. #248
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    727
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    Secondly, your main complaint seem to just be "REEE THE PROC RATES AND CD'S FELT BAD", that's just the nature of procs and CD's, not something inherently bad.
    WotLK Ret in T10 was literally only procs and CD's and people loved that.
    Part of the reason people loved it was that with the DS proc from the T10 set, and plate still meaning something back then, you could leap into a pile of ICC trash, pop wings, go nuts, and kill a pack without needing a tank or even that much healing. It felt powerful, and aside from Fury Warriors (who did need healers to do it) there wasn't really anyone else who could do that, so it also felt special. It was only trash undead, but who cares? That was what Paladins were supposed to be doing to undead. Class fantasy, right there.

    These days we don't have the tools to do that, with DS being the only reliable AoE and being a spender, the undead stun being on a long CD and frontal arc only, and so on.
    Yeah, I'm sure every rogue universally loved that Combat stopped existing and that Subtlety changed into whatever the fuck it became that wasn't even viable for 9/10th's out of the expansion and still isn't.
    Combat becoming Outlaw and being re-themed I thought was okay. It had ups and downs, just like any spec. Sub, though - it's like after years of Assassination and Sub being different they forgot how to do that, and now Sub is a bad Assassination spec that does shadow damage. I always loved Sub (I was also always terrible at playing it in serious content, but it was still a fun spec), but these days my Rogue is Assassination, because it's boring but it works.

  9. #249
    Bloodsail Admiral Alkizon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Strasbourg
    Posts
    1,052
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    Cata was the first time I managed to level a Rogue, and I went Sub all the way. It was great, and I miss it. I seem to recall MoP's Sub being okay, but Cata was the best. I used to farm dragonscales in the Highlands with my Rogue in Cata - Shadowstep, Ambush, Backstab, skin, repeat.
    I would say that it became much less player's skill demanding during this period, even I used it for PvP without looking at some "difficulties" in the past... but this doesn't mean that it was best iteration. More affordable - yes, better - not sure
    __---=== IMHO(+cg) and MORE |"links-inside" ===---__

    __---=== PM me WHERE if I'm unnecessarily "notifying" you ===---__

  10. #250
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    727
    Quote Originally Posted by Capultro View Post
    pd about shadow,i don like that shadow use light shields,this break his spec fantasy.he must use shadow magic shields...
    That's easy - Shadow builds on the basic Priest toolkit, and thus turns PW: Shield into a shadow shield that does something extra, like (for example) reflects some of the damage absorbed back onto the attacker.

  11. #251
    Rogues can never feel like rogues again because they added DHs.

  12. #252
    I'm a speccer, and I don't see a real need for class-branches to return to a common pool of various skills. I liked that they made them more distinct, that you can tune your character to the class fantasy you have in your head. If I make a bear druid, I don't see why I should have solar/lunar skills as part of my main abilities. If I make a fury warrior, I don't see how I would find a lot of defensive skills necessary for my character to fit the fantasy.

    It seems to me that the reason for this is not to make classes to feel more like the fantasy archetypes, but rather to make the classes feel more like they did back in classic, because Blizzard are starting to give into the nostalgia-longing of the hardcore fans. I think they did Legion right, with a few exceptions in certain specs, and this seems like a step back, or at least a stagnation.
    Mother pus bucket!

  13. #253
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    727
    Quote Originally Posted by Loveliest View Post
    I don't care all that much. My prot paladin feels plenty paladin-y. Sure, I no longer have my auras but it's not a big deal. Pretty sure every paladin spec can heal and use hands so don't think there will be much change (aside from bringing back auras). I mean maybe seals were something, but I never cared much for them - they kept nerfing and buffing till only one was usable anyhow.
    I'd like Righteous Fury to be a thing again. It let Ret emergency off-tank (and occasionally caused hilarity in raids when some Ret forgot to turn it off), allowed some interesting tactics involving Holy Pallies building AoE threat using it, and meant Port off-tanks could reduce their threat output while still doing full DPS if they needed to. And while Prot might still feel like it's related to Holy and Ret, Ret really doesn't feel like it has much in common with Prot right now - Ret's pretty squishy, lacks utility, can't off-tank, off-healing is very limited...

  14. #254
    Warchief Gungnir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Nifelheim
    Posts
    2,023
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    Part of the reason people loved it was that with the DS proc from the T10 set, and plate still meaning something back then, you could leap into a pile of ICC trash, pop wings, go nuts, and kill a pack without needing a tank or even that much healing. It felt powerful, and aside from Fury Warriors (who did need healers to do it) there wasn't really anyone else who could do that, so it also felt special. It was only trash undead, but who cares? That was what Paladins were supposed to be doing to undead. Class fantasy, right there.

    These days we don't have the tools to do that, with DS being the only reliable AoE and being a spender, the undead stun being on a long CD and frontal arc only, and so on.
    The reason why people loved it is because it was a proc on top of a cooldown focused class.
    Enhancement in Legion had plenty of situations where it would feel powerful, even topping the charts on a fair few fights.

    Again, your issue with Enhancement seems more the fact that proc rates and the power of them were tuned incorrectly rather than the actual design, as there were plenty of other specs that functionally worked the same way with being builder-spender with a proc thrown in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    Combat becoming Outlaw and being re-themed I thought was okay. It had ups and downs, just like any spec. Sub, though - it's like after years of Assassination and Sub being different they forgot how to do that, and now Sub is a bad Assassination spec that does shadow damage. I always loved Sub (I was also always terrible at playing it in serious content, but it was still a fun spec), but these days my Rogue is Assassination, because it's boring but it works.
    Sure, you might've liked it, a lot of people including myself after being a rogue player for years did not however.
    Sub was also my favourite rogue spec and as you say, it's absolutely horrendous nowadays and has been since the revamp and the focus on spec identity.

    This is also what I've been trying to tell people is that being overly focused on spec identity and making everything as unique as possible often doesn't end up well, as you sacrifice a lot of what the overall class feels like in search of getting a snowflake spec.

  15. #255
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    727
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    While I don't think that'll happen, I do miss my 2h Frost DK a LOT.
    So do I. I love my 2-hander plate specs. Ret's been my main since BC, aside from a bit in mid-Legion where my Shaman was, but I loved 2-H Frost (I tried levelling a DK several times and just got bored until I went 2-H Frost), and it always disappoints me when Arms (inevitably, it seems) drops back in the mid-late period of expansions and becomes 'PvP only'. I like my big hits, thanks.

    That's something I'd like to see with Warriors - a lot of what were Arms-only short CDs seem to have become for Fury as well, and I think that Arms has suffered as a result (and possibly Fury too, but I don't know enough about Fury to say).

  16. #256
    I loved the overall class design in MOP and even in Cataclysm.
    Classes had an awesome arsenal of abilities and there was always something you can do to help your teammates with (besides the usual dps rotation).

    The BFA style of classes are really boring because most specs are barely 1/3 of what they were in MOP.
    BfA = second worst product ever made by Blizzard.
    War3 Reforged took the title for worst product.

  17. #257
    Warchief Gungnir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Nifelheim
    Posts
    2,023
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    So do I. I love my 2-hander plate specs. Ret's been my main since BC, aside from a bit in mid-Legion where my Shaman was, but I loved 2-H Frost (I tried levelling a DK several times and just got bored until I went 2-H Frost), and it always disappoints me when Arms (inevitably, it seems) drops back in the mid-late period of expansions and becomes 'PvP only'. I like my big hits, thanks.

    That's something I'd like to see with Warriors - a lot of what were Arms-only short CDs seem to have become for Fury as well, and I think that Arms has suffered as a result (and possibly Fury too, but I don't know enough about Fury to say).
    Warriors always shared cooldowns though, ever since the introduction of the class back in Vanilla in the form of Recklessness.
    I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, they've just muddled the concepts of what an Arms warrior is or should be in regards to how it plays, to the point where it now feels like ass to play.

    I always kept two to three characters as my 'mains' since every expansion before Legion was a lot more alt friendly, Ret was one of them up until MoP as I hate Holy Power as a mechanic. Never could get rid of the clunky feeling of it.

  18. #258
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    727
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    Enhancement in Legion had plenty of situations where it would feel powerful, even topping the charts on a fair few fights.

    Again, your issue with Enhancement seems more the fact that proc rates and the power of them were tuned incorrectly rather than the actual design, as there were plenty of other specs that functionally worked the same way with being builder-spender with a proc thrown in.
    I don't think I've said anything about Enhancement in this (or any other) thread. I've barely played Enhance since LK. My Shaman alt hit level cap first in LK, I tried Enhance, found it felt too much like Ret (my main), switched to Elemental (and Resto when needed for our raids), and never really tried Enhance again. I loved Resto healing from LK to WoD, and it's still my favourite healer (possibly because it's changed the least) despite all those lovely CDs losing their power or going away.
    Sure, you might've liked it, a lot of people including myself after being a rogue player for years did not however.
    Fair enough. It's certainly true I had nothing invested in Combat, as it was a spec I tried a couple of times and had set up solely for the odd instance I ran on my Rogue (because I sucked bad at Sub in instanced content), but not one I ever felt anything for.

  19. #259
    Banned Soon-TM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Netherstorm
    Posts
    5,993
    Quote Originally Posted by De Lupe View Post
    Why not both?

    Allow each spec to feel unique (Legion and BFA) while also allowing the class as a whole to remain...a class.

    You still get the 36 sub-classes that are the specs, but then each of the actual classes are still whole and complete.

    Everybody wins.
    That would be completely fine and dandy if they hadn't torn all classes a new one (particularly in 7.0) to build their !@#$ty "spec identity" first.

  20. #260
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    727
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    Warriors always shared cooldowns though, ever since the introduction of the class back in Vanilla in the form of Recklessness.
    I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, they've just muddled the concepts of what an Arms warrior is or should be in regards to how it plays, to the point where it now feels like ass to play.
    I was thinking of Bladestorm. Also, Arms having Whirlwind - ISTR it was Fury-only, so Fury had great AoE, but Arms had Cleave and Sweeping Blows, and so had great cleave, and with Bladestorm+Sweeping Blows had amazing AoE on a longer CD (until that combo was nerfed because BS+Sweeping+Shadowmourne made for too many battleground tears).
    I always kept two to three characters as my 'mains' since every expansion before Legion was a lot more alt friendly, Ret was one of them up until MoP as I hate Holy Power as a mechanic. Never could get rid of the clunky feeling of it.
    I'm okay with it. When it only charged to three Holy Power it wasn't great, but at least in MoP the spec played pretty fast. I hate the WoD-onwards design with unavoidable holes in the rotation. MoP, where the problem was fitting everything in, making getting your priorities right very important, was much more fun. Also, the payoff was better then - none of the builders hit terribly hard, but TV hit like a truck. Now several of the builders hit semi-hard (but Crusader Strike hits like a wet noodle and is only useful for the HoPo charge), and so TV doesn't hit super-hard and isn't very exciting.

    One thing I do miss from LK - Holy Shield. A nice little damage absorption buff, apply-able to ourselves or others. These days everyone can get one from their necklace, of course.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •