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  1. #401
    Herald of the Titans Will's Avatar
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    I really don't get the OP's argument. Having access to spells from other specs gives you more choice, more choice is good.

    I mean... you still kinda spec your character towards a particular style, so it's not like you will be using all your toolkit all the time. But you can if you want. And if you don't want to, don't. How is more choice a bad thing when classes have been neutered for years?

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    I also don't think any of the spec revamps with Legion ended up being even a moderate success outside of Arcane mage, UH DK and Enhance shaman I suppose.
    I agree with the rest but UH DK and enhancement shamans were far more enjoyable before their reworks.

  3. #403
    I am Murloc! Logwyn's Avatar
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    I just want to duel weld as a survival hunter..

  4. #404
    Warchief Gungnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ludvig View Post
    I agree with the rest but UH DK and enhancement shamans were far more enjoyable before their reworks.
    I fully agree with that, I was merely saying that out of the revamps, those offended me the least with how they played.
    Don't get me wrong, they were still shit.. just slightly less shit than other specs.

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    Totems back when you had to summon each one using a GCD were annoying, yes. One GCD for the whole collection though, that was fine. I manage fine on my Elemental now using Totem Mastery. One click, then start casting your opener. Big deal.
    That was a huge improvement but it still suuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked. Obviously YMMV.

    Regarding enhance, again that's just your opinion man, but IMO Enhance is the best it's ever been by a very, very large margin. It took them a long-ass time to make AE work in particular.

  6. #406
    Glad I'm not the only on who's not looking forward to the return of "class" identity, or well at least not in the way Blizzard is planning to do so. Been playing non-stop since Vanilla myself and I'm used to "spec" identity now and yet I feel like I still have a class identity as well, even without there being spec-wide spells. If they want a return of "class" identity, I'd say, bring back class armor sets instead of the generic armor-type sets we're seeing in BfA now. Bringing back class identity simply by just reviving old spells again feels like an extremely cheap move. Like what's next, Blizzard bringing back the first aid profession to get a better "independence" identity? Or old guild perks to get a better "guild" identity?

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    And I see the Post legion system as diluting the class.



    Disagree, just balance them properly and this is a non-issue. The overwhelming majority of people don't min-max like that anyways and never have.
    I think classes are obsolete and stifle spec design.
    Too many players follow sims, perception is a bigger issue than performance tbh, but if at least they performed a different role both options would have a niche as opposed to spec1 and spec1+

  8. #408
    Yeah screw class identity

    My paladin doesn't want to get aura's back
    I'm a retired pally not a stupid healer
    And maybe I don't want to have an execute
    Maybe I don't think consecrate should be baseline


    Geez it's like blizz is trying to give us utility and choice

  9. #409
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodmoth13 View Post
    I think classes are obsolete and stifle spec design.
    They are taking literally nothing away from the specs when they do this, so this statement is completely unwarranted... You are acting like this change is going to hamper spec identity when it won't do anything of the sort, because all they did when they started focusing on spec identity was take things away... Clearly the overfocus on spec identity is what stifled overall class design.
    Last edited by Schattenlied; 2019-11-12 at 07:07 AM.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.

  10. #410
    IMO the pruning since MOP has made the classes very boring and shallow to play *unless you're a raider, while back during one of the Dev talks the pruning was partly so they could make more complicated raids, which is all fine and dandy but outside of raids IMO the class design was a snoozefest and very little RPG'ish and too MOBA'ish design. Your toon starts as a class then later goes into a specialty - going to that should not make you forget the basic's of the class - mage first or druid first then fire or guardian or etc etc....

  11. #411
    lmao
    you all are being suckered in so nicely
    hold the vaseline
    An Karanir Thanagor,
    Mor Ok Angalor..

  12. #412
    Banned Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    You shouldn't think of WoW as a game that only takes place within a perfectly controlled single target boss environment where you only use your rotation, as it rarely ever is like that.
    While I share this sentiment, it's no surprise that there are so many folks ITT thinking that if something isn't part of a raid rotation, it's useless and must be done away with. Blizzard's actions make very clear that they care first and foremost about raids, and everything else is essentially an afterthought.

    At some point in WoW's history, it stopped being an RPG and became a glorified visual novel + raid boss simulator.

  13. #413
    Warchief Gungnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    While I share this sentiment, it's no surprise that there are so many folks ITT thinking that if something isn't part of a raid rotation, it's useless and must be done away with. Blizzard's actions make very clear that they care first and foremost about raids, and everything else is essentially an afterthought.

    At some point in WoW's history, it stopped being an RPG and became a glorified visual novel + raid boss simulator.
    Of course, I definitely agree with this, it seems like Blizzard has atleast realized that they've gone a bit overboard with restricting the amount of tools we have available.
    I definitely prefer back when it was still an RPG, but you are right in the fact that it's been a long time since that was a thing still.

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    They are taking literally nothing away from the specs when they do this
    You don't know that. Nobody does, until we see the actual changes. Personally, I'm highly dubious.

  15. #415
    Warchief Gungnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    You don't know that. Nobody does, until we see the actual changes. Personally, I'm highly dubious.
    You're free to feel sceptical about the whole thing, but I don't think your fears will come true.
    One of the biggest complaints about BfA was class design and them feeling very lackluster, if they were to take things away from specs and add some things to the base class, then they'd just be at ground zero again.

    They might've made a lot of mistakes the last two expansions, but they're intelligent enough to realize that they need to nail the class design for SL and fill out the gaps within the classes/specs more than anything.

  16. #416
    Blizzard said their mea culpas many times over the past 15 years and then dramatically overreacted the next expansion. I expect the same thing to happen here. Lots of spec identity will be lost. Anyway we'll see soon enough, one way or the other.

  17. #417
    Warchief Gungnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Blizzard said their mea culpas many times over the past 15 years and then dramatically overreacted the next expansion. I expect the same thing to happen here. Lots of spec identity will be lost. Anyway we'll see soon enough, one way or the other.
    Spec identity has always existed since TBC though..
    The only thing we've lost over the years was actual class identity, as when Blizzard decided to go the 'spec indentity' route, instead of reinforcing what made the specs into what they are, they just stripped the class enough to where the specs were the only things existing of substance within the classes.

  18. #418
    I really don't care about class/spec identity, for me all it matters is if it's fun and powerful. I play rogue and DK and I'm certainly not hyped about poisons or raise dead, that doesn't make a spec into a class again imo. How about gouge and mass grip, that's what i wanted as a class.
    Last edited by Khain; 2019-11-12 at 05:32 PM.

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    Enhancement shaman was NOT made better by its redesign. It turned a once unique play style into the same build/spend style nearly every other class now uses.
    Fury Warriors and Enhancement shamans are pretty much the same thing.... why play my shaman when my warrior does everything better with cooler animations?

  20. #420
    Power Word: Shield in Shadowform? Yuck. Frost Nova as a Fire Mage? Gross.

    Spec bleedover feels appropriate in a lot of classes for me - DK, DH, Paladin, Rogue, Shaman, Warlock, and Warrior. But classes like Druid, Hunter, Mage, Monk, and Priest I am a lot more picky about spec bleed over because for these classes specs seem so much more polarizing, opposite, or distinct from one another.

    Some of these are more egregious than others. Monks can follow Yu'lon, Xuen, Niuzao, and Chiji all at the same time, but to some extent it would feel very wrong to see yellow orbs or summon Niuzao as a Windwalker, y'know? It also feels wrong to me to use a ranged Serpent Sting as a Survival Hunter, when I feel like I should be using a melee Lacerate.

    Some abilities have great spec bleed-over and are just pure "fun". But some abilities can just feel so very wrong to use in certain specs, and I hope they keep that in mind.

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