Anyone NOT that hyped for 'return to class'?

[crakerjack]

Honestly, I too feel like specs are more important than class overall. I don't want that much cross over between specs because it homogenizes the class overall. If I play a BM hunter, I know my playstyle will differ from MM. If I play a fire mage, I know I'll be chaining crits rather than saving flurry procs for glacial spikes. Each spec is unique and creates 3 different playstyles for every class. Granted that'll still be the same, but I just feel like we're heading in the wrong direction. I'm all for adding back abilities, but they should be unique to the spec, rather than the class as a whole.

[Schizoide]

The answer is always PvP. For that specific example, you'd use flash heal when you're shadow locked. Having all of your spells use the same magic school is terrible for PvP.

Sure, and it's higher HPS and (I assume) uses more mana and doesn't have the downside of the DoT in combat. All those things are true, and in the same vein fire mages can use frostbolt when they're locked out of fire or need a snare. The question is whether those things are worth confusing the heck out of unsophisticated players.

[Niroshi]

Sure, and it's higher HPS and (I assume) uses more mana and doesn't have the downside of the DoT in combat. All those things are true, and in the same vein fire mages can use frostbolt when they're locked out of fire or need a snare. The question is whether those things are worth confusing the heck out of unsophisticated players.

It doesn't really matter if you confuse them or not. Hand them a heavily curated spec and they'll still be 10th percentile.

[Schizoide]

Most specs aren't all that hard to play at a minimally competent level, a fire mage casting nothing but fireball, fire blast, and pyro when it procs will do OK. Not great, but OK. Once he starts mixing in frostbolt, hoo boy.

[Doffen]

Most specs aren't all that hard to play at a minimally competent level, a fire mage casting nothing but fireball, fire blast, and pyro when it procs will do OK. Not great, but OK. Once he starts mixing in frostbolt, hoo boy.

Game changer that one

Oi blizz, frostbolt too? Dis game to hard. Arcane Explosion as well? I'm out.

[Seuchentiffy]

I disagree, most Legion-era specs were the best they've ever been, and BFA mostly improved on that, with a few notable exceptions and if you can ignore the terrible GCD change.

All down to personal opinion on that, i think you could find a Player who would say "X-Specc was best in X-Expansion", high chance even for every iteration of every Specc (depending if the changed something mid expansion) in combination with certain T-Sets.

For me for example it´s all down to "feeling", is the pace right and the Rotation Fluid? Do i have tools for X-Situation yada yada. Since WoD it´s a decline for me in that regard for many Classes/Specc´s, yes Legion did some (in a few cases many thinks right) but BFA just feels like a even more dumped down version of Legion for me and i dont think Shadowlands will change that in any regard seeing how they announced no Class overhauls.

I do hope they try to bring the Fun back into Classes (just my opinion so different strokes for different folks) because atm most classes just feel "hollow" for me and pls by all that is holy they really should reverse that GCD change.

[Schizoide]

All down to personal opinion on that, i think you could find a Player who would say "X-Specc was best in X-Expansion", high chance even for every iteration of every Specc (depending if the changed something mid expansion) in combination with certain T-Sets.

Yes, that's fair to say. Subjective opinion.

The one thing most of us do agree on is the GCD change was bad.

[ydraw]

I have seen some outlaw rogue posts that are less than enthusiastic about poisons returning. I'm pretty sure there are Shamans who feel the same way about totems. Afterall, its one more GCD for them to press.

But what do I know, I don't play those classes.

The problem with totems isn't the GCD, it's having to recast them all the time whenever you move. Really, really annoying for questing and not great for dungeons either.

[dcc626]

I am more worried they will do it wrong. and that it will not be enough.

im worried that regardless of what they do, people will complain and go yell about it on the forums.

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I don't think Blizzard is going to return classes to how they use to be. I think Blizzard is going down the lazy route of giving classes a few spells back and call it a day, and this to me will put me off playing SL among other things.

I think Blizzard would've been better going back to MoP classes and specs, at least they were fun to play.

if you honestly think they would just revert classes back to 3 xpacs ago and call it all good, you are mental.

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Yes, that's fair to say. Subjective opinion.

The one thing most of us do agree on is the GCD change was bad.

i have a feeling they will revert most of the non combat gcd changes, but they will keep all the rest. like it or not.

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The problem with totems isn't the GCD, it's having to recast them all the time whenever you move. Really, really annoying for questing and not great for dungeons either.

so, people want stuff back, but not if its not easy to use and doesnt make them do things (like pay attention to reapplying poisons 1 time an hour).

how the hell is classic popular at all. i have no idea.

[Fetus Rex]

Return to class is basically Blizzrd admitting they get more resources and can't sustain spec identity. In other words: we are fucked.

[Nerovar]

I was like "WTF is thisss??? i will never play this game EVER, EVER, EVER AGAIN" and i didn't until legion, just because i loved Demon hunters class showing up.
And i only enjoyed Legion and this changes because dh only had a spec 1 dps, and 1 tank.

My rogue? Never came back to it.
And other classes i still feel it misses something. And mostly talent trees.

And for example, warlock could have demon armor and demon skin, and on retail they just have demon armor as a pvp talent, hence why i said some stuff could be baseline , mostly the pvp talents and some on talents. I think they talked about something like this on SL announcement tho.

To me, the real WTF moment was in Legion prepatch when they suddenly deleted half of my keybinds on my DK despite already being an easy/simple class. Didn't really enjoy the game after that.

[Hctaz]

Play a Pandaria warlock.

Pandaria Warlock was the most busted dumb shit I’ve ever seen.

I understand why players love it, but they should have never done it in the first place. MoP was when they went overboard and gave every single class the option to do just about every single thing in the game by using talents. Warlocks casting while moving was an abomination >.< you’re supposed to be the immobile ranged damage class.

[Velerios]

Return to class is basically Blizzrd admitting they get more resources and can't sustain spec identity. In other words: we are fucked.

Ok, that's so utterly utterly BS that i can't even begin with to say how wrong you are. Because of that and my headache, i just want to put in one argument: Having more cross over talents does actually takes MORE work than having a set for every spec.

[Micronetic]

Play a Pandaria warlock.

Oh man good ol' memories with my Afflock soul swapping the crap outa everything

[Niwes]

I don't think Blizzard is going to return classes to how they use to be. I think Blizzard is going down the lazy route of giving classes a few spells back and call it a day, and this to me will put me off playing SL among other things.

I think Blizzard would've been better going back to MoP classes and specs, at least they were fun to play.

sign that. with my blood.

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in the end i do not care that much if it was MoP classes or Wotlk or maybe even Cataclysm. Because nearly all of it was way better than what happened to around 80% of classes with around WoD/Legion and what we have today. They fucked up classes to make their life easier aka to easier maintain, balance and streamline them. what is another term for cost effective development. what means less investment. what means more $$$ for blizz.

i take EVERY classes design (besides vanilla, because „slow“) EVERY day before that crap they have since the last few xpacs. its all just cheap shit.

[Nerovar]

Pandaria Warlock was the most busted dumb shit I’ve ever seen.

I understand why players love it, but they should have never done it in the first place. MoP was when they went overboard and gave every single class the option to do just about every single thing in the game by using talents. Warlocks casting while moving was an abomination >.< you’re supposed to be the immobile ranged damage class.

No one cares about "what you're supposed to be". Classes were fun in MoP and they were very distinct in MoP. That's the purpose of classes. They should provide fun and different vehicles through which you can experience the game. So I don't really understand what's the issue here.

i take EVERY classes design (besides vanilla, because „slow“) EVERY day before that crap they have since the last few xpacs. its all just cheap shit.

Come to think of it, cheap really is the fitting word here. It feels like they've outsourced class development to a different team that has no idea what they're doing.

[Niwes]

No one cares about "what you're supposed to be". Classes were fun in MoP and they were very distinct in MoP. That's the purpose of classes. They should provide fun and different vehicles through which you can experience the game. So I don't really understand what's the issue here.


Come to think of it, cheap really is the fitting word here. It feels like they've outsourced class development to a different team that has no idea what they're doing.

oh, i think they know EXACTLY what they are doing. its just YOUR goals, YOUR perspective, is NOT THEIRS.

they not outsourced it (not yet ^^ i assume). they just invest lowest possible effort / team size / etc. THEY do what they do to save money by decreasing effort needed for wow. streamline classes (every class use builder/spender pattern), easy maintenance (few spells are easier to maintain in a complex system than many spells), balancing by flat knob turning.

the result is less investment and more money for them. the result for you are worse classes. but as long as ppl keep paying them anyway (and in wow it looks like A LOT do) they save money by decreasing effort/investment. ofc i have no numberrs or data to proof, but its obvious that the wow community as a customer base is VERY hard proofed and accept A LOT before quitting forrever.

so its simple milking the cow. they test how far they can go, before they loose money by loosing subs vs save effort and spending resources on more lucrative projects. its simple maths.

and obviously the maths told them „ok, more ppl hated pruned (cheaper for us) classes than we get profit out of it. lets turn the slider a bit back in SL to keep paying ppl vs a bit more investment again.“

this is how it goes in companies like blizz. i feel save to assume, because i worked in that business for 15+ years. its just strategics and maths/data.

ppl are just often confused these days because they think a happy customer is the main goal. the times are over when „long term paying loyal customers“ was > all. today quarter numbers are > all. if spending less effort but loosing a few subs makes better quarter numbers, ceo will go for that.

[Fetus Rex]

Ok, that's so utterly utterly BS that i can't even begin with to say how wrong you are. Because of that and my headache, i just want to put in one argument: Having more cross over talents does actually takes MORE work than having a set for every spec.

It doesn't take more work. It might make balancing more difficult but it is incomparably smaller task.

[Hctaz]

No one cares about "what you're supposed to be". Classes were fun in MoP and they were very distinct in MoP. That's the purpose of classes. They should provide fun and different vehicles through which you can experience the game. So I don't really understand what's the issue here.

It's a class identity issue. If everybody can do every thing then there's either never a reason to bring your class, or there's never a reason to bring anything other than your class depending on what actual unique things you can provide. When was there a reason why you would want any of the other caster classes over warlock? Multi dot? Affliction. Cleave/single target burst? Destro. And then whatever Demo actually did. Not only that but they had great movement options so a mage having blink wasn't an actual benefit. Warlocks have always generally been the more tanky caster class so they were in a better spot defensively as well. And then to top it all off, they also had the warlock gates.

You need to give classes something that they suck at doing so that you have a reason to not just stack all of one class aside from numerical values.

[Nerovar]

It's a class identity issue. If everybody can do every thing then there's either never a reason to bring your class, or there's never a reason to bring anything other than your class depending on what actual unique things you can provide. When was there a reason why you would want any of the other caster classes over warlock? Multi dot? Affliction. Cleave/single target burst? Destro. And then whatever Demo actually did. Not only that but they had great movement options so a mage having blink wasn't an actual benefit. Warlocks have always generally been the more tanky caster class so they were in a better spot defensively as well. And then to top it all off, they also had the warlock gates.

Yet people still successfully played mages. Funny, huh?