Page 10 of 10 FirstFirst ...
8
9
10
  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Imagine thinking that referring to something as a grind is relegated only to spammable video game content. I’m guessing you’re not of an age to have actually worked a job if calling daily tasks for small incremental gains a grind is a foreign concept to you.
    More like you not being of an age to know that's not what the term refers to in MMOs. We're not talking about the daily grind at work here, we're talking about grinding in MMOs.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by nekobaka View Post
    Reminds me of the not so welcoming responses I got from players fuming about Firelands daily zone time gating when pointing out the WotLK Crusader zone did so as well. Was sad seeing so many claiming WotLK never did so and this was some new scummy tactic.
    I think it's a bit comparing apples to oranges.

    The Argent tournament was largely a thing for collectors, the item rewards were so laughably bad even in the weeks of its release that most people ignored it.
    Vendors sold like Ilvl200 items, which also dropped in Heroic dungeons, which were easy enough in Wotlk.

    The Firelands dailies did sell items that were relevant to players who haven't raided Heroic in the previous tier, meaning that it was a lot more relevant to them.
    It also had the unfortunate side effect that if you raided normal exclusively, you didn't need those items anymore by the time you got them because they were still worse than Items from Firelands normal.
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Even before the Tournament came out there were more dailies than the cap would let you do. Icecrown had a dozen little daily hubs, Storm Peaks had one, and there were other dailies sprinkled around.
    Equating the existence of daily content to timegating in general is just straight dishonest, the rewards behind it matter.

    In Wotlk, you had the Sons of Hodir, the Exalted Shoulder enchant was slightly better than the Honored one (which you got just by questing there).
    We're talking about 10-20 Spellpower / AP and like 15 Crit rating.

    In other words, only something you want to engage if you really want the extra bit of power, hardly something mandatory.
    Not to mention, the "grind" got much easier over the course of the expansion, the Exalted Shoulder enchant became accountwide later on and you could buy Rep for Emblems which were easily farmable.

    Any other daily in Wotlk only granted you gold, which you could farm however you wanted, it's not like those dailies were the only source of raw gold.
    Remaining Repfarms (aside from the Ashen Verdict, which only could be farmed in ICC) could be farmed in dungeons via Tabard, no dailies involved unless you absolutely craved the daily experience.

    The only legitimate criticism would be the Daily Heroic but that only awarded the most relevant currency since 3.3, wasn't a thing beforehand.
    And yeah, people already disliked that back then as well.

    To tackle your previous post along with it.
    The dailies initially introduced in TBC hardly awarded actual playerpower, the few items those Rep vendors sold were barely relevant for anyone who has played a bit of TBC.
    They were just sources of rawgold for most players, Blizzard even capped the amount of dailies you could do per day initially.

    Something like the Netherwing was obviously just done by people who wanted the Netherdrake mount, nothing that's somehow mandatory or relevant to player power.

    In 2.4, the introduced a faction with relevant rewards, yes.
    But, Blizzard there turned it into a massive serverwide event with various stages to unlock vendors, which were unlocked based on the servers progress, not to mention that those vendors sold items for a currency you could farm beforehand.

    Let's not forget, this is TBC, not "Play the Patch"-Land that WoW has become, meaning you still had other areas to improve your character if you haven't done so, rather than just [newest raid & Daily zone area].

    The only way you could have run out of things to improve your character by the time of 2.4 was if you were a cutting edge raider that jumped into SWP right off the bat and was then timegated by those gates, but this hardly applied to the playerbase at large which were still stuck in T4 / T5 / T6.

    The way timegating / dailies worked in Wotlk and especially TBC is just so different to the modern approach of Blizzard that it's hardly compareable.

    It's absolutely mindboggling to me how people can be that superficial in their assessment, which to me implies that people that make the argument "Dailies and time gating have existed since TBC!"
    1. Are Willfully dishonest for the sake of the argument
    2. Have not played TBC / Wotlk and repeat it based on hearsay
    3. Have forgotten about what makes these cases very different

    Hardly anyone has ever complained about timegating / dailies when it involved collectible items, but that criticism grows when playerpower is involved.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2020-12-06 at 01:10 PM.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    More like you not being of an age to know that's not what the term refers to in MMOs. We're not talking about the daily grind at work here, we're talking about grinding in MMOs.
    Haha the lack of self awareness is stunning. You seem to understand the concept but for some reason don’t want to apply it. A grind is a grind. Arbitrarily narrowing the definition for one particular thing doesn’t change the meaning of the word.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Haha the lack of self awareness is stunning. You seem to understand the concept but for some reason don’t want to apply it. A grind is a grind. Arbitrarily narrowing the definition for one particular thing doesn’t change the meaning of the word.
    Arbitrarily applying the definition from one area to another doesn't make it correct, either. Meaning depends on context.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I think it's a bit comparing apples to oranges.

    The Argent tournament was largely a thing for collectors, the item rewards were so laughably bad even in the weeks of its release that most people ignored it.
    Vendors sold like Ilvl200 items, which also dropped in Heroic dungeons, which were easy enough in Wotlk.

    The Firelands dailies did sell items that were relevant to players who haven't raided Heroic in the previous tier, meaning that it was a lot more relevant to them.
    It also had the unfortunate side effect that if you raided normal exclusively, you didn't need those items anymore by the time you got them because they were still worse than Items from Firelands normal.

    Equating the existence of daily content to timegating in general is just straight dishonest, the rewards behind it matter.

    In Wotlk, you had the Sons of Hodir, the Exalted Shoulder enchant was slightly better than the Honored one (which you got just by questing there).
    We're talking about 10-20 Spellpower / AP and like 15 Crit rating.

    In other words, only something you want to engage if you really want the extra bit of power, hardly something mandatory.
    Not to mention, the "grind" got much easier over the course of the expansion, the Exalted Shoulder enchant became accountwide later on and you could buy Rep for Emblems which were easily farmable.

    Any other daily in Wotlk only granted you gold, which you could farm however you wanted, it's not like those dailies were the only source of raw gold.
    Remaining Repfarms (aside from the Ashen Verdict, which only could be farmed in ICC) could be farmed in dungeons via Tabard, no dailies involved unless you absolutely craved the daily experience.

    The only legitimate criticism would be the Daily Heroic but that only awarded the most relevant currency since 3.3, wasn't a thing beforehand.
    And yeah, people already disliked that back then as well.

    To tackle your previous post along with it.
    The dailies initially introduced in TBC hardly awarded actual playerpower, the few items those Rep vendors sold were barely relevant for anyone who has played a bit of TBC.
    They were just sources of rawgold for most players, Blizzard even capped the amount of dailies you could do per day initially.

    Something like the Netherwing was obviously just done by people who wanted the Netherdrake mount, nothing that's somehow mandatory or relevant to player power.

    In 2.4, the introduced a faction with relevant rewards, yes.
    But, Blizzard there turned it into a massive serverwide event with various stages to unlock vendors, which were unlocked based on the servers progress, not to mention that those vendors sold items for a currency you could farm beforehand.

    Let's not forget, this is TBC, not "Play the Patch"-Land that WoW has become, meaning you still had other areas to improve your character if you haven't done so, rather than just [newest raid & Daily zone area].

    The only way you could have run out of things to improve your character by the time of 2.4 was if you were a cutting edge raider that jumped into SWP right off the bat and was then timegated by those gates, but this hardly applied to the playerbase at large which were still stuck in T4 / T5 / T6.

    The way timegating / dailies worked in Wotlk and especially TBC is just so different to the modern approach of Blizzard that it's hardly compareable.

    It's absolutely mindboggling to me how people can be that superficial in their assessment, which to me implies that people that make the argument "Dailies and time gating have existed since TBC!"
    1. Are Willfully dishonest for the sake of the argument
    2. Have not played TBC / Wotlk and repeat it based on hearsay
    3. Have forgotten about what makes these cases very different

    Hardly anyone has ever complained about timegating / dailies when it involved collectible items, but that criticism grows when playerpower is involved.
    "Relevant rewards?" Are you forgetting BC was the expansion of "you had to go through every tier in order to advance to the next one and good luck if you got your tanks/healers attuned and they jumped to a better guild?" I'd say rep rewards were even MORE important then than they are now. Cenarion Expedition had the best feral weapon before T5, which most raiders didn't even get to. And remembering that raiding was an even more niche activity than it is now with more difficulty settings and accessibility.

    As for your "play the patch" snide, are you forgetting that 2.4 was the patch that added dailies in almost every older zone that you'd have to cycle around to do. Hmm, where does that sound familiar? Trying to pass off everyone who disagrees with you as willfully dishonest, repeating hearsay, or having bad memory is very egotistical of you, btw. Reminds me of the Calvin and Hobbes meme about denying being in denial, just being specific about the reality they accept.
    Last edited by cparle87; 2020-12-07 at 01:44 AM.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    "Relevant rewards?" Are you forgetting BC was the expansion of "you had to go through every tier in order to advance to the next one and good luck if you got your tanks/healers attuned and they jumped to a better guild?" I'd say rep rewards were even MORE important then than they are now. Cenarion Expedition had the best feral weapon before T5, which most raiders didn't even get to. And remembering that raiding was an even more niche activity than it is now with more difficulty settings and accessibility.
    Okay, here's my challenge to you:
    Post the Daily quests for Cenarion Expedition
    (and preferably explain how something can be timegated when you also could farm Reputations in repeatable dungeons).

    And to be clear on that, we are talking about timegating in the sense that the game artifically blocks you off from progressing (such as daily or weekly lockouts).
    To refresh your memory here a litte bit on your statement, because you seemingly need it
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Reps have been time gated for as long as there have been dailies, which was BC.
    Obviously, a flawed statement in itself, because all the factions relevant for the attunements were introduced in 2.0 (You know, TBC release) and Dailies didn't even exist until 2.1, hence it is factually impossible for those attunement be timegated based on dailies, as those factions existed before dailies were even in the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    As for your "play the patch" snide, are you forgetting that 2.4 was the patch that added dailies in almost every older zone that you'd have to cycle around to do. Hmm, where does that sound familiar?
    You mean *newly* added quests that are relevant to the plot of the current patch, rather doing the same quest that you've been doing since x.0?
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2020-12-07 at 02:21 AM.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by dontrelleroosevelt View Post
    I’m not impressed with it so far, and it feels like a slightly better version of Legion, which isn’t saying much, given that Legion and Pandaria were the two worst expansions to date, overall.
    I mean you say that like your opinion is a fact, but most of the playerbase thinks legion and MoP are above WoD and BfA.

  8. #188
    So the Isle of Quel'danas didn't ever exist.
    I'm a thread killer.

  9. #189
    There is to much timegating ends up being nothing to do for a week untill reset, basically play for a few hours on the weekend and your done till next reset.

    Campaign/Renown/conduit tree all timegated.

    Torghast only 2 wings per week does your legendary drop from a wing thats not available this week? to bad wait another week.

    Maw (altho a good thing since the zone is obviously not finished and is terrible)

    Basically everything thats new is timegated.

  10. #190
    Raid lockouts are time gates.
    Spawn timers are time gates.
    Crafting duration is a time gate.
    Arena points were a time gate.

    They just added more power progression paths and gave it roughly the same progression speed.
    They could have locked you progression behind some badges, which you would only get after looting mythic bosses or created some materials which only drop from mythic bosses. Same stuff from different angle.
    Comparing to the old days does nothing, it's exactly the same, we just have more power progression points. Casuals wait for out of the raid one while others wait for weekly reset.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by RedditIsDown View Post
    Nice necro. OP is hilariously accurate in their prediction though.
    Not really. I'm coming to find that a lot of the necessity people seem to be feeling to grind things out is completely not needed. Venari rep from trying to max your time in the maw is dwarfed by the weeklies she gives. I mean it feels like a drag and then bam weeklies push you to the spot on schedule. It's probably possible to be at the rep higher than I am now, but that would require way more effort than it's worth as every Tuesday you're just shuffled that much closer. Unless you're a top 100 guild there's no reason to be forcing Venari rep or any rep really. At most I would say with Venari for example you might save 1 week of time by spending ridiculous time and energy now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by james2400 View Post
    There is to much timegating ends up being nothing to do for a week untill reset, basically play for a few hours on the weekend and your done till next reset.

    Campaign/Renown/conduit tree all timegated.

    Torghast only 2 wings per week does your legendary drop from a wing thats not available this week? to bad wait another week.

    Maw (altho a good thing since the zone is obviously not finished and is terrible)

    Basically everything thats new is timegated.
    There's no way you're doing all 8 mythic dungeons and everything else that is weekly in a few hours.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •