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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    If you pick an alliance race, you are alliance. If you pick a horde race, you are horde. Some races have overpowered racials, others dont. Its been this way since the game began.

    The amount of people who sit on here crying all day about not being able to cross faction play at all times or how one faction is stronger than the other are frankly embarrassing and frustrating to anyone who wishes to discuss legitimate game mechanics and ideas. If you want to discuss what you think is overpowered and how to adjust that? That's a legitimate discussion. If you want to lament that they're "driving everyone to the horde" or how there's inherent favoritism from your point of view, that really should be something that gets deleted off here.

    I never really saw this in other games. Nobody complains in SC2 about not having hydralisks as protoss. Nobody in WW2 games complains about not having the STG-44 as a base kit option for an American GI. So what makes WoW players think they need to set new rules for how games are made?
    A faction is an experience, balanced around a set of functions as a whole. You pick one and play that experience, and then you try the other experience and play either, both or neither.

    TL;DR- stop wasting your lives complaining about something that isnt actually an issue. At all. In any way shape or form. Your headcannon is not a pivotal game decision.
    So what is the argument against crossfaction play?

  2. #42
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    I man, there's two different themes.

    One is cross-faction grouping, which would allow people to play with whomever they wish, regardless of the race they chose.
    This would be beneficial in that it would open up the pool to more people, allow friends who rolled diff factions to play, and open the door for more runs.
    It can easily be implemented as "you, the top of your order, have chosen to put aside the faction divide to conquer a greater foe".
    We've seen it in the narrative many times, so it wouldn't be out of left field; it would be an individual choosing to do so.

    Which brings me to two, the narrative as a whole.
    The faction war is what Warcraft is about, what its always been about, and to remove it would further remove any identity the game once had.
    Outright removing factional divides would basically ruin the game and take away a level of conflict that's need to make a rich and diverse story.
    Of course, one can argue the story is a trainwreck and I wouldn't necessarily fault them, but it's more about the possibility.

    But, those themes can co-exist.
    There can be underlying arcs with factions at each others' throats.
    Maybe we see Genn mount an offensive against Talanji (two names pulled out of thin air just because) and Worgen vs Zandalari is a thing in the story, but an individual Worgen may group with an individual Zandalari because of a greater threat.

    And racials aren't an issue anymore; it's that Horde dominates in raw population.
    They could remove racials altogether and it wouldn't matter; people are where they are.
    With cross-faction functionality, it would help the Mythic scene because Alliance guilds are struggling something fierce, whereas Horde have a larger pool from which they can draw.

    TL;DR: Cross-faction grouping would only ease playability and open the door for more groups (friends/competitive/etc), but only if the narrative still retains the factional divide, else it all becomes too flat.

  3. #43
    I am Murloc! Nobleshield's Avatar
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    The thing is the faction war has been shown ever since Warcraft 3 to be wrong and everything has illustrated why there should be peace. So it's not what Warcraft is about (since Warcraft 2 which was the last real "faction war"), in fact Warcraft post-WC2 has been about why the Horde vs. Alliance war is destructive to the entire world, hence why every single expansion, including Vanilla and WC3 itself, has been about the factions needing to put aside their differences in the face of a greater foe.

    I'd argue it actually makes MORE sense at this point narratively to get rid of the faction war.

  4. #44
    Herald of the Titans Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkaW View Post
    Faction dont matter in PVP, you can already do Horde vs Horde since Cata RBGs and Horde vs Horde in BC arena.

    Factions never work together in raids, like ever, dont mistake gameplay with lore, you roleplayer faction.
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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    For example

    - offer free faction swaps if you are horde
    - slightly buff the alliance racials
    - stop talking about the horde and their strange problems and sylvanas in every expansion
    - generally promote the alliance on their websites (for example: the horde is ugly and you know it, join the beautiful people now that can even afford living in real cities made of stone or at least made of cool trees with wisps.. oh wait ;D )
    Unfortunately it's never going to happen and the quality of Alliance storytelling will remain the same. For 15 years the Alliance playerbase feedback was ignored.

    They just don't care and it'll be too late when they realize people are leaving in droves and their "core" feature is outdated. Said "core" feature doesn't even exist anymore with PvP mercenary cross play. I find it hilarious that they want to promote Recruit-a-Friend to new players with their current faction restrictions. No one wants to play shit when they can just pick up FFXIV or ESO.

    At OP: Faction divide will also limit their current Night elf v. Sylvanas storyline. Horde players didn't have any choice in BfA. As always, Warcraft worked best when the conflicts and factions were small. Goblins, Blood Elves, Night elves, and Forsaken always had weak ties to the faction they were stuck with. They can't even grow without them being involved in yet another Horde v. Alliance war.
    Last edited by Polybius; 2019-11-13 at 04:31 PM.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    So what makes WoW players think they need to set new rules for how games are made?
    Because Blizzard bent over and did what people begged for too many times in the past. They should have said "no you're wrong, shut the fuck up" but no, they are being the little nice parents who spoil their kids. Now we have a bunch of old people acting like kids because they were never raised right.

    That being said, the concept of faction is objectively shit as it reduces the amount of people you can fight in wpvp by half and the amount of people you can group with by half. It should be FFA in both who you can gank and who you can group with, you should be able to run a dungeon with CloudstrifeXxX and gank him the next day.
    Cure cancer, delete factions.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    WoW is one of the few remaining MMOs that have not abolished faction boundaries and allow for cross-faction grouping, communication and content (which would have no impact on PVP because PVP is its own thing and World PVP is nonexistent in any meaningful way). It's about time that it joined the rest of the genre in not having silly limitations that prevent friends from playing with each other if they like different things.
    WoW doesn't have to do something because other games do it. It is perfectly fine the way it is. Character boosts render that whole "playing with friends" argument null and void anyway.

  8. #48
    You must not raid very much to realize that Alliance raiding is in a real shitty state now

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by ErrandRunner View Post
    It's not Blizzard's fault that players visit websites to be influenced on the best racials/builds to such an extent that they only do what the websites tell them to do, instead of just playing the game to have fun. Only sheep deny playing what they want and give in to what icyveins tells them to do. You are playing a game, you shouldn't be taking orders from no site. Don't let something external from you dictate how you play the game just because you want to be in the top 1%.
    I'm not sure that the vast majority of players chose their faction based on the racials rather than the lore and the flavor.
    Sure there are some "half a percent optimization" players but peasants like most of us initially chose flavor.
    Last edited by Sangfoudre; 2019-11-13 at 07:18 PM. Reason: Racial, not facial. Like some dude said in his dog
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  10. #50
    The Unstoppable Force
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daronokk View Post
    No, it isn't. Who cares if Alliance raiders suck? They don't deserve to be carried just because of that.

    A fundamental part of the franchise has to be removed just because Alliance players suck at raiding? Just get better and stop complaining.
    lol

    The reason all the best mythic raid guilds are Horde isn't because Horde attracts better players. It's because Blizzard imbalanced racials in favor of Horde so top end raids kept faction changing to Horde over the years.

    This is absolutely a problem that Blizzard created, and one they need to fix.

    And no, it's not a core part of the franchise since NPCs group up together all the god damned time.

  11. #51
    It's not about "I want to play an imba human on horde side" or "horde has better players", because this is just not true.. It's about other stuff like:


    you know.. some people have friends.. and mine for example are split up on horde and alliance and I mean real life friends and not just people I've met on the internet.
    But I don't want to play two factions, since it's a stupid Idea to split the playerbase.
    Also we have now >66% horde players (this problem exists more in europe than in usa) and I've played a while on Horde and it's much easier to find a Group there. Horde groups aren't really better, but you don't have to wait as long.
    If I open m+ finder I can scroll up and down on horde and on alliance it's much fewer groups.

    Just imagine you buy overwatch, log in and you are asked if you want to join talon or overwatch and from there on you are not allowed to play with every friend who had picked the other side. The concept alone sounds so stupid you don't even want to think about it and yet we are used to it in wow so hard some still don't want to let go of it.
    Last edited by Inukashi; 2019-11-13 at 07:31 PM. Reason: holy crap my spelling sucks

  12. #52
    High Overlord Godric's Avatar
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    No it’s not you just don’t like it. /thread
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  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Alliance mythic raiding struggling is a legitimate issue. It will just continue to get worse as more and more people go Horde.

    And yes, cross faction raiding is the only solution to the problem.
    No it's not.

    Recruiting and raising the next level of raiders is a solution.

    Not whining and entitlement.

    I agree with the OP you're all very embarrassing. Just like the wealthy who always cry for support when they have everything already.

    Another solution is to get rid of mythic raiding so it won't matter what a few hundred or thousand say about faction balance when the rest of us don't actually care.

  14. #54
    I am Murloc! Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Nobody complains in SC2 about not having hydralisks as protoss.
    You tarded or something ? Cause that's not the point like at all...
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    When googling 4 letters is asking too much fact-checking.

  15. #55
    I dont even think there is a need of getting rid of the faction anyway. Horde and Alliance can still exist, still have their pride, and still can, IF they choose to, group up with the other faction for raids, groups or even guilds. There are a lot of factions in wow that have both factions coexisting to meet a greater goal. There could even be an option for people who absolutely dont want to see an other faction member in their group: If they check that option, they would see no orc in their alliance guild but a human. The game would change the race of the charakter and you would not even notice it. I am not sure if it is possible tech wise, but this could be a work around.
    I dont understand why they dont see a compromise, and why it is always black and white. No need to get rid of Horde and Alliance. Just let us be able to play with each other. There is no lost in faction pride or meaning there is just the ability to play a race/class combination with friends
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  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    For example

    - offer free faction swaps if you are horde
    - slightly buff the alliance racials
    - stop talking about the horde and their strange problems and sylvanas in every expansion
    - generally promote the alliance on their websites (for example: the horde is ugly and you know it, join the beautiful people now that can even afford living in real cities made of stone or at least made of cool trees with wisps.. oh wait ;D )
    We have blood elves and nightborne and zandalari with their golden pyramid. What you do have is Anduin as a leader that is such an idiot he didnt bring gas masks to a fight with Sylvanas and told Tyrande to send ALL her forces away from her homeland. He also refuses to be aggresive and stops attacking because "then we would be just as bad as sylvanas!". Although now we have Baine as "warchief" so not much different now. 2 non-toxic males that want to cuddle each other as leaders of each faction.
    Last edited by GreenJesus; 2019-11-13 at 08:43 PM.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post

    I never really saw this in other games. Nobody complains in SC2 about not having hydralisks as protoss.
    Terrible try at a comparison. People aren't asking to live in the horde cities as alliance, or even to play an alliance race as horde faction. They just want to be able to team/group up for PvE stuff.

    A better comparison using SC2 is that you can group up with the other factions. I'm not even talking about co-op commanders or PvP melee brawls (where you can definitely team up with other factions and fight together). I'm talking about the main sc2 story line. I specifically remember Raynor and some Terrans working with Kerrigan to defeat a mutual enemy, another Terran (Mengsk). Terrans teaming up with Protoss to defeat Zerg. I mean there are tons of times they teamed up, and not just happened to be in the same place at the same time fighting a mutual enemy. They actually coordinated and worked together.

  18. #58
    Dreadlord Pheraz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    We have blood elves and nightborne and zandalari with their golden pyramid. What you do have is Anduin as a leader that is such an idiot he didnt bring gas masks to a fight with Sylvanas and told Tyrande to send ALL her forces away from her homeland. He also refuses to be aggresive and stops attacking because "then we would be just as bad as sylvanas!". Although now we have Baine as "warchief" so not much different now. 2 non-toxic males that want to cuddle each other as leaders of each faction.
    So? Horde is still the ugly faction.
    Point was also how to get more people back from the chain reaction faction swapping because your friend goes to the ugly faction you also go to it and so on. Didn't want to derail this topic to alliance Vs furrdurrderp
    Sorry if I've hurt your feelings
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  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    So? Horde is still the ugly faction.
    Point was also how to get more people back from the chain reaction faction swapping because your friend goes to the ugly faction you also go to it and so on. Didn't want to derail this topic to alliance Vs furrdurrderp
    Sorry if I've hurt your feelings
    Alliance has gnomes & mechagnomes and werewolves. That pretty much ruins your "pretty" faction since they are butt ugly.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    If you pick an alliance race, you are alliance. If you pick a horde race, you are horde. Some races have overpowered racials, others dont. Its been this way since the game began.

    The amount of people who sit on here crying all day about not being able to cross faction play at all times or how one faction is stronger than the other are frankly embarrassing and frustrating to anyone who wishes to discuss legitimate game mechanics and ideas. If you want to discuss what you think is overpowered and how to adjust that? That's a legitimate discussion. If you want to lament that they're "driving everyone to the horde" or how there's inherent favoritism from your point of view, that really should be something that gets deleted off here.

    I never really saw this in other games. Nobody complains in SC2 about not having hydralisks as protoss. Nobody in WW2 games complains about not having the STG-44 as a base kit option for an American GI. So what makes WoW players think they need to set new rules for how games are made?
    A faction is an experience, balanced around a set of functions as a whole. You pick one and play that experience, and then you try the other experience and play either, both or neither.

    TL;DR- stop wasting your lives complaining about something that isnt actually an issue. At all. In any way shape or form. Your headcannon is not a pivotal game decision.
    People really, really identify with their characters, it seems.

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