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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Ogarash View Post
    Nono, SNES was true 16-BIT and could display 256 colors at the same time on screen.But yeah Atari is not..8-bit.
    You're right. I forgot how color systems work. 8-bit systems could have 2^4 = 16 colors. Atari was 4-bit and could do 2^2 = 4 colors.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    It did for a fact, can still be played today.

    "We all know the mistakes made" = No, we don't. First of all, forum posters are a minority. Second of all, between 100 different people you can get 100 different opinions on where the game went wrong, what MADE it go wrong etc etc. The only thing that seems to be universal among Classic fans is that "teh game went to shit past Vanilla"... Yet now all of a sudden, Classic's not enough...?

    Classic+ would only repeat the cycle. If the current team, according to Classic fans, can't be trusted with the game that's literally Classic+ 13 years of iterations, then they sure as hell can't be trusted with managing a separate Classic+.

    So, I maintain: No. Classic existing as is to satisfy the fans of it = great. Then, if it's profitable in another year, they can release TBC and maybe WOTLK Legacy servers. Or, at some point, perhaps Classic fans need to realize that Vanilla wasn't the ever-lasting source of renewable content that they pretended for so many years, and that they're ready to just move on from WoW. Pandering to every person wishing to recapture the feels they had for the game in the past is a surefire way to stretch everything too thin.
    Where is this Classic+?
    That's true there a differing opinions as to what is a problem with Classic WoW though the majority would confirm that certain Class/Specs were highly represented or not throughout Classic experience. There are a number of biases attributed to these specs. Balance, Ret, Feral, etc.. Obvious specs that were underperforming and/or were incredibly boring. You may say otherwise but, facts are facts. No one can deny they sucked ass.

    Another would be the honor system favoring time investment and not skill. If you dedicate your life for 8+ hours a day you'll achieve the higher ranks. It doesn't matter if you can 5vs1 R14s as a Boomkin if you can't commit to the same amount of hours.

    Releasing BC will only exacerbate the problems as I previously stated that retail suffers from. Content drought, World PvP being destroyed, old content being irrelevant, leveling experience is tedious, etc. I wanted Classic as a means to reset what's been done with the current version retail. I don't want to see a trend that leads right back to the problems retail faces today.

    What retail has offered thus far is simply building a city ontop of a city to fix the problem of bad infrastructure. The underlying core is messy and going back to fix the inherent problem becomes harder and harder. Introduce new features that are positive to the WoW atmosphere rather than releasing expansion content that sweeps the bad under the rug. I'm not saying we shouldn't release TBC or Wrath but, rather implement them in such a fashion that they can coexist alongside the Classic WoW content. It should be an alternative rather than a linear path to which content you should be doing.

    Retail releasing a level squish and giving the option to do all the dungeons from 10-50 from nearly all of the expansions is the ideal way of handling content. Choice is important and you shouldn't force a linear path in terms of gameplay. It was necessary for the time because the resources and capabilities weren't there. It's time to move forward with engaging a community into PvE & PvP activities rather than bandaiding a battlegroup system with BGs. Move towards alternative paths for people to experience rather than being stuck in the same experience.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Moor Shadows View Post
    Premature. Come back in 12-18 months. They'll either have to do classic+ with new content (like RSC) or TBC servers.
    and seeing how tbc servers require little to no dev costs, im pretty sure thats the way they are going to go.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by d00mh4cker View Post
    All I see is posts saying how messed up classic wow is.

    Like, bad balancing, poor mechanics, respec costs, easy content, too much epic drops, no flight paths.
    And people are asking for transmogs, flying, free respec, better balance, barber, more races etc etc.

    Can Blizzard please just release Classic+ already?!
    Thats called..bfa

    Dont like classic. Play retail. All you mentioned is alreasy there.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Thats called..bfa

    Dont like classic. Play retail. All you mentioned is alreasy there.
    Classic is good but, there is no reason not to make it great. Honest communication with the community and taking feedback would be preferable to making a better game rather than purely replaying what failed & succeeded. The majority of the playerbase wanted the community element back to the game that didn't involve some streamer making content that drove this community. The gameplay itself should drive every player to unite against their foes which can range from PvE and PvP foes. World PvP, AQ event, etc were all such events that led towards a community effort to bring about an end goal. Either through achieving supremacy as a faction, self interest, and/or being a part of something this is what the community needs.

    Unfortunately the World PvP system is hollow due to the necessity of an Honor System(Which is bad design), introduction of BGs which will further push people to sit in major cities, World PvP objectives that reward next to nothing, and Battlegroups because of server imbalances. Why not make improvements? Why not make the contested zones in WoW actually contestable with quests for either side depending upon the circumstances of a particular piece of a zone.
    Are the Night Elves pushing the Horde out of Ashenvale or are the Orcs with their Troll allies laying siege to the Wildhammer Dwarves in the Hinterlands? Make quests that reflect the situations of the world rather than a purely static situation. It's never fun to see stories such as Cataclysm where one side is being destroyed while another is victorious with absolutely zero way to intervene or alter a situation. We're merely spectators for the ride and no amount of community/effort can alter any of it.

    The story remains ultimately the same and the best way to do this is to reset the board every 2weeks to a month. Everything defaults to the neutral states we see today but, players can make an active effort in every zone to secure PvE and PvP objectives for their faction. This would allow for dynamic content based upon circumstances. This wouldn't be purely a Alliance vs. Horde situation. This could also be the Scourge winning in EPL and making inroads to securing a foothold in Alterac + WPL. It would make it a World Event that has to be quelled or ultimately they'll roll over the entire world with their might.

    TLDR: Make Classic+ with dynamic content based upon actually zone conflicts in how they progress and don't use bandaids to hide the problems the game faces such as BGs & Battlegroups.

  6. #166
    Banned Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    It did for a fact, can still be played today.

    "We all know the mistakes made" = No, we don't. First of all, forum posters are a minority. Second of all, between 100 different people you can get 100 different opinions on where the game went wrong, what MADE it go wrong etc etc. The only thing that seems to be universal among Classic fans is that "teh game went to shit past Vanilla"... Yet now all of a sudden, Classic's not enough...?

    Classic+ would only repeat the cycle. If the current team, according to Classic fans, can't be trusted with the game that's literally Classic+ 13 years of iterations, then they sure as hell can't be trusted with managing a separate Classic+.

    So, I maintain: No. Classic existing as is to satisfy the fans of it = great. Then, if it's profitable in another year, they can release TBC and maybe WOTLK Legacy servers. Or, at some point, perhaps Classic fans need to realize that Vanilla wasn't the ever-lasting source of renewable content that they pretended for so many years, and that they're ready to just move on from WoW. Pandering to every person wishing to recapture the feels they had for the game in the past is a surefire way to stretch everything too thin.

    Amen.

    /10chars

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Roelath View Post
    Classic is good but, there is no reason not to make it great.
    For the people who wanted classic, it is already great. If you don't share that opinion, you weren't the target audience in the first place and therefore people like you are the last ones Blizz needs to listen to.

    And besides, at Blizzcon, they shot down the idea of adding modern things to Classic such as HD races. So you guys, the 30 or so people asking for Classic 'plus' - y'all probably shouldn't hold your collective breath.

  7. #167
    Merely a Setback Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Amen.

    /10chars

    - - - Updated - - -



    For the people who wanted classic, it is already great. If you don't share that opinion, you weren't the target audience in the first place and therefore people like you are the last ones Blizz needs to listen to.

    And besides, at Blizzcon, they shot down the idea of adding modern things to Classic such as HD races. So you guys, the 30 or so people asking for Classic 'plus' - y'all probably shouldn't hold your collective breath.
    Amen back at ya!

    The people who wanted Classic for real, are also playing and enjoying it for real. This whole "I want Classic, but..."-sentiment was around before Classic was even released, and as such clearly comes from people to whom Classic ain't enough and never will be.

    And if those people can't be satisfied with Classic, and they can't stomach the Live game, then tough shit. Creating a separate World of Warcraft to pander to the crowd that ain't happy either way would prove utterly futile as those same individuals began seeing changes made that didn't exactly match what they want. Literally a repeat of what's happened in WoW since the very first patch to Vanilla.

    At some point they should just realize that they can find a game that better matches what they want, rather than demand that Blizzard keeps 3 varietes on the same damned IP.
    Hamsters will rule The World!

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    Amen back at ya!

    The people who wanted Classic for real, are also playing and enjoying it for real. This whole "I want Classic, but..."-sentiment was around before Classic was even released, and as such clearly comes from people to whom Classic ain't enough and never will be.

    And if those people can't be satisfied with Classic, and they can't stomach the Live game, then tough shit. Creating a separate World of Warcraft to pander to the crowd that ain't happy either way would prove utterly futile as those same individuals began seeing changes made that didn't exactly match what they want. Literally a repeat of what's happened in WoW since the very first patch to Vanilla.

    At some point they should just realize that they can find a game that better matches what they want, rather than demand that Blizzard keeps 3 varietes on the same damned IP.
    It's the OSRS effect. Players see Classic in the same vein as OSRS and think, "well it worked there, it'll have to work for WoW too!" Then you have super galaxy brained suggestions like, "just let the community vote on the content it wants!" The latter suggestion actually causes my blood pressure to rise because game design by democracy is one of the most infuriatingly stupid ideas I see commonly thrown around here.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    For the people who wanted classic, it is already great. If you don't share that opinion, you weren't the target audience in the first place and therefore people like you are the last ones Blizz needs to listen to.

    And besides, at Blizzcon, they shot down the idea of adding modern things to Classic such as HD races. So you guys, the 30 or so people asking for Classic 'plus' - y'all probably shouldn't hold your collective breath.
    Who is the target audience? The people you think the target audience is? Sounds like a circlejerk group of #NoChanges to score karma points on a reddit post.

  10. #170
    I just hope any TBC/C+ expansion is on an opt in basis. I don't want to have my classic characters forced into anything beyond vanilla content. Hopefully they allow classic fans to keep their characters on classic servers.
    The New England Patriots and all their frontrunner fans (xskarma is the exception) can eat a bag of http://www.ddir.com/ .

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by pinkz View Post
    In Warcraft 3 Frozen Throne, yes high elves became blood elves, but they were playable and were in the human race/faction which also included dwarves. They were not part of or playable with undead faction or orc/troll/tauren faction

    Blizzard did a severe retcon for WOW to make them horde. When blizzard was asked. They said horde needed a pretty race. When asked why draenai were changed, they said alliance could not handle a ugly race

    Retconning against lore is common, if you know lore on worgen they should have been horde, blizzard said alliance need a beastly race. As for goblins, they did not want another small race on alliance
    The draenei actually being eredar was a retcon, but the blood elves joining the horde in bc is not a retcon. It's just the story of their race going forward in a new direction.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Brilliant take down. I especially liked the part where you provided support for your argument with rational, well thought-out conjecture.
    I liked the part where you did the same.

  13. #173
    Banned Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roelath View Post
    Who is the target audience? The people you think the target audience is? Sounds like a circlejerk group of #NoChanges to score karma points on a reddit post.
    Um... the people who loved vanilla, think its the best version of the game, and relentlessly nagged Blizzard to re-release vanilla servers? Probably those guys?

    As opposed to the 'Vanilla was okay and all but WITH MY CURATED LIST OF CHANGES Vanilla could be something special, I tell you!'

    Queenofhamsters said it best - if retail isn't good enough, and classic isn't good enough, then go find another fucking game to play for Christ's sake.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Um... the people who loved vanilla, think its the best version of the game, and relentlessly nagged Blizzard to re-release vanilla servers? Probably those guys?

    As opposed to the 'Vanilla was okay and all but WITH MY CURATED LIST OF CHANGES Vanilla could be something special, I tell you!'

    Queenofhamsters said it best - if retail isn't good enough, and classic isn't good enough, then go find another fucking game to play for Christ's sake.
    You sound like a bitter neckbeard.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    But why would I lie? Your profile and posts reek of jealousy
    Seems like you have no problems with lying about being happy with Classic, if you were then you wouldn't need plus.
    Hope, the greatest power of all!

    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Roelath View Post
    You sound like a bitter neckbeard.
    You sound like someone who long ago gave up any attempt to persuade based on the merits of your ideas and are content to sling poo like a baby monkey. No offense, just an observation.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicIsTerrible View Post
    Just admit Classic is terrible and not as good as you remembered.
    Well said!

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Yuugumo View Post
    I liked the part where you did the same.
    No, I didn't? You made an incorrect observation about RuneScape and I responded by pointing out that WoW and RS have very different audience demographics so saying it worked for one doesn't mean it will work for the other. To put it another way, some people might find a ridiculous spoiler a cool thing to put on their car but that doesn't mean that everybody who drives a car wants a spoiler simply because all cars have four wheels. Your initial response to my argument was, "your argument is weaker" with absolutely zero support for this claim. Cool, cue my sarcastic response where I ask you do exactly this. But instead you take the lazy route and respond like this. This does not qualify as a rebuttal and this response makes your claims even less convincing. I'm all for arguing on the internet but it's a lot more fun when you at least try.
    Last edited by otaXephon; 2019-12-03 at 03:25 AM.

  19. #179
    The thing is i believe classic+ would literally destroy classic.

    Majority wants QoL changes like taunt on paladin.

    Classic feels like broken beta game, taunt is literally kinda missing from paladins.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Thats called..bfa

    Dont like classic. Play retail. All you mentioned is alreasy there.

    Oh, retails is now max level 60? no flying? Talent trees? 40-man raid?

    Didn't realize, sorry.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by d00mh4cker View Post
    The thing is i believe classic+ would literally destroy classic.

    Majority wants QoL changes like taunt on paladin.

    Classic feels like broken beta game, taunt is literally kinda missing from paladins.

    - - - Updated - - -




    Oh, retails is now max level 60? no flying? Talent trees? 40-man raid?

    Didn't realize, sorry.
    "Majority wants..." can you back up that claim? "Look around the forums" or "its obvious" dont count.

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