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  1. #21
    Stood in the Fire mostvp71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drbatman View Post
    Retail pvp is just a bunch of smashing your face on the keyboard and seeing what random shit happens.

    Classic pvp is pure skill and tactics, reading your enemy and counter playing.

    Retail pvp is basically the LFR of pvp in regards to skill.
    Im willing to bet you’ve never been past 1500 in arenas.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    I'm sorry, but being perma kited by a mage, or a rogue killing you inside stunlock, or even a warrior MSing you once or twice and then you're dead. Is ZERO skill. Gear is too much of a difference in Classic, for it to be "skill" based. If an Arms warrior has Sulfuras, good luck, unless you can keep him from hitting you ever, you're not going to win.

    You're completely backwards in how retail vs classic pvp works.

    I've had MANY open world 1v1s where they last 2-3 mins because of counter play, and the ability to counter play. Whether I'm on my disc priest or on my warlock, those fights take significantly more skill than they would in Classic.


    Classic is the easiest mmo on the market, bar none.
    And gear means fuck all on Retail.

    Kinda the problem. Gear has to mean something, especially in BGs. If there's no power gains on retail in PvP, no one cares.

    Meanwhile in Classic I find your point totally fucked. My mage is basically pre-raid BIS and smokes fully MC geared players inside 4 casts. Gear doesn't matter, and you're just using it as an excuse. Time to kill is all that matters.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by korijenkins View Post
    And gear means fuck all on Retail.

    Kinda the problem. Gear has to mean something, especially in BGs. If there's no power gains on retail in PvP, no one cares.

    Meanwhile in Classic I find your point totally fucked. My mage is basically pre-raid BIS and smokes fully MC geared players inside 4 casts. Gear doesn't matter, and you're just using it as an excuse. Time to kill is all that matters.
    Are you retarded? What do you think causes your time to kill to increase or decrease? Your fucking gear. Their gear doesn't matter, as resilience isn't a thing, its just raw damage from the other player. More/better gear just means more HPs from a defensive aspect.

    The part that makes retail better, is its about skill, not about your gear. To whereas Classic is the exact OPPOSITE. Jesus fucking christ, you proved my point for me. Thanks dummy.

  4. #24
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    On classic i global most players on my mage.
    On retail you get into BGs against 4 healers and a dozen of melee and you can't do shit, full combustion combo, even without someone spamming dispel on me is countered by disc priest throwing a penance and spamming shadowmend for 6 seconds. Add another healer and couple of melee with all the pushback, interrupt and CC and you get the picture.
    PvP in both games is shit

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Calfredd View Post
    That's another one! Warrior mace spec!
    Stunherald and mace spec in tbc was, like, the most broken thing in the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    Are you retarded? What do you think causes your time to kill to increase or decrease? Your fucking gear. Their gear doesn't matter, as resilience isn't a thing, its just raw damage from the other player. More/better gear just means more HPs from a defensive aspect.

    The part that makes retail better, is its about skill, not about your gear. To whereas Classic is the exact OPPOSITE. Jesus fucking christ, you proved my point for me. Thanks dummy.
    Are you sure?

    1. You need specific traits on your azerite items and higher ilevel only makes this traits stronger.
    2. You need specific statistics on every item but equiping 430 ring when pve players have 445 is so sad.
    3. You need item level overall. 445 players will DESTROY 420 ilvl player, he will stomp him into ground.

    I have started playing my disc with low gear. I had no versatlity, no item level (just 400) and all this dks, dhs, rogues etc were killing me just by pressing 1 2 3. I was able to fake every interupt, i was spam healing myself with every possible defensive talent picked but still i waas dying in 1-2 mnutes. It was very low rating (around 1900).

    Now that i have gear - 432 ilvl i can tank this 2.1k newbies but still it's hard to keep myself alive.

    Also wtf skill are you talking about? They have taken everything. Compare skill celling of wotlk classes and bfa classes. Every class is sooooo simple and every class lack outplay mechanics. This is what majority of players cry about and still you say that BFA is about skill xDDDD

  6. #26
    The Lightbringer Sanguinerd's Avatar
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    PvP in both versions of the game sucks, but to say classic requires more "skill" is just ludicrous.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Druitz View Post
    Are you sure?

    1. You need specific traits on your azerite items and higher ilevel only makes this traits stronger.
    2. You need specific statistics on every item but equiping 430 ring when pve players have 445 is so sad.
    3. You need item level overall. 445 players will DESTROY 420 ilvl player, he will stomp him into ground.

    I have started playing my disc with low gear. I had no versatlity, no item level (just 400) and all this dks, dhs, rogues etc were killing me just by pressing 1 2 3. I was able to fake every interupt, i was spam healing myself with every possible defensive talent picked but still i waas dying in 1-2 mnutes. It was very low rating (around 1900).

    Now that i have gear - 432 ilvl i can tank this 2.1k newbies but still it's hard to keep myself alive.

    Also wtf skill are you talking about? They have taken everything. Compare skill celling of wotlk classes and bfa classes. Every class is sooooo simple and every class lack outplay mechanics. This is what majority of players cry about and still you say that BFA is about skill xDDDD
    You clearly don't understand WoW PvP. We have more available to us now, than in wotlk, by a huge margin. PvP talents? Azerite skills? Like... jesus christ. Balance doesn't exist when you're sub top tier ilvl, never has. When people are 445-455, of course at ilvl 420 you're going to get dunked on. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. But EVERYONE at the top, is based around skill. Because they're all equal in gear. To where in Classic, even if gear is equal, skill is much less of a factor because of pure game design. Sorry you're bad at this game, try again later.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by drbatman View Post
    Retail pvp is just a bunch of smashing your face on the keyboard and seeing what random shit happens.

    Classic pvp is pure skill and tactics, reading your enemy and counter playing.

    Retail pvp is basically the LFR of pvp in regards to skill.
    it's literally the other way around LMAO people saying this have never done live arena

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    You clearly don't understand WoW PvP. We have more available to us now, than in wotlk, by a huge margin. PvP talents? Azerite skills? Like... jesus christ. Balance doesn't exist when you're sub top tier ilvl, never has. When people are 445-455, of course at ilvl 420 you're going to get dunked on. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. But EVERYONE at the top, is based around skill. Because they're all equal in gear. To where in Classic, even if gear is equal, skill is much less of a factor because of pure game design. Sorry you're bad at this game, try again later.
    I bet you have never achieved more than like 1800

    Everyone know BFA sucks, classes lack outplay mechanics. For example DH mana burn is uncounterable unless you are playing with priest. Global combo points made rogues much much easier than they ever were. Every class is easier. Skill gap between best and worst players is MUCH lower than it was in the past.

    We got dhs that have dodge in their rotation and are nearly impossible to kite - same with WW. We got fire mages that do most their dmg with instant casts. We got warlocks that can tank all the dmg mid arena and never die until high damp.

    in the past you could SW scatter shot if you were good enough (what can you know about it?) Now hunter rush at you with 200% speed and throw instant trap.

    Game evolved to support casuals like you. Casuals need simple classes. They don't need ways to counter enemy , they don'y need outplay mechanics that we RLY lack compared to past.

    2v2 is already about doing dmg and keeping pressure. Let's hope shadowlands will save this epicly bad expansion and add more skill celling.

    Everyone thinking BFA require any skill to play is for sure carried by s1 rating inflation and now act as "expert"

  10. #30
    He's delusional get him to the infirmary.

  11. #31
    Almost got me there buddy
    3/10 troll
    now shoo

    anyway while we are on the topic
    some warlock fearing you for 20 seconds straight is basically DPSing a dummy with extra steps
    I honestly would love a talk with some class designers 15 years ago
    what in the hell were they thinking?
    Last edited by Pper; 2019-11-16 at 11:35 AM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by drbatman View Post
    once every 3 mins, big whoop
    no they cant, do you PLAY the game?
    git gud buddy, charge > hamstring
    Cant charge in combat. Hamstri g dosnt help v frost nova blink

    Give it up bud wow pvp wasn't ment to taken seriously in vanilla and it shows

  13. #33
    Pandaren Monk
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    Classic and skill in same sentence.....

    Nothing in classic requires any skill. Pve or PvP.

    Silly ClassiCucks....

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    Cant charge in combat. Hamstri g dosnt help v frost nova blink
    Buddy, warr vs mage is literally one of the most 1 sided duels in all of classic and thats what your gonna base your argument on? please. go think of something intelligent to say.

    another thing, frost mage is warrior HARD counter, which is a good thing! not everything in classic has to be 100% equal and balanced like the supposed utopia of Retail.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommi View Post
    Classic and skill in same sentence.....

    Nothing in classic requires any skill. Pve or PvP.

    Silly ClassiCucks....
    have you ever seen a $50,000 dueling tournament on retail?

    Quote Originally Posted by mostvp71 View Post
    Im willing to bet you’ve never been past 1500 in arenas.
    My highest arena rating since season 2 is 2500, I am not a great player nor did I ever claim to be.
    Last edited by drbatman; 2019-11-16 at 04:03 PM.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by drbatman View Post
    Buddy, warr vs mage is literally one of the most 1 sided duels in all of classic and thats what your gonna base your argument on? please. go think of something intelligent to say.

    another thing, frost mage is warrior HARD counter, which is a good thing! not everything in classic has to be 100% equal and balanced like the supposed utopia of Retail.

    - - - Updated - - -



    have you ever seen a $50,000 dueling tournament on retail?



    My highest arena rating since season 2 is 2500, I am not a great player nor did I ever claim to be.
    Hard counter.... Haha what is this pokemon. Class design in vanilla had 0 thought put into it except is this cool.

  16. #36
    Field Marshal
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    Hard counter.... Haha what is this pokemon. Class design in vanilla had 0 thought put into it except is this cool.
    The fact that you think the game designers of the greatest game ever made just went yeah, this looks like it just works.....goes to show how delusional you are.

  17. #37
    Sheep Pyro Pom Pyro

    SO MUCH SKILL OMG !!!!!! YES CLASSIC PVP > RETAIL !!! SO MUCH BALANCE !!!

    ....

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Hehalol View Post
    The fact that you think the game designers of the greatest game ever made just went yeah, this looks like it just works.....goes to show how delusional you are.
    1 button mage rotations where intentional?

    Haha get out of here.

    Also greatest game ever made.... Please first of that that entirly subjective and secondly wow isn't even in the top 10 best selling games.

    Wows success was a fluke, a product of the time and market and the class designs were stabs in the dark and guess work based on what ever quest and other had. And the devs of the time admit as such, that they had no clue what they were doing.

  19. #39
    All these kids are just angry classic have more players than retail. There is no doubt classic requires more skill, wow have been dumped down and been pruned to death.

    if you mess up in retail u lose like 5% hp, in classic u die.

  20. #40
    As someone who's now played a ton of Classic PvP and who's been multiglad/high rated (both in BfA and in previous expansions) I can safely say that retail is still by far more "skillful" and a better PvP game on the whole than Classic.

    Given that the only somewhat competitive bracket in Classic is 1v1 we can immediately say that, well, it is incredibly imbalanced. Most of the time, even if you're much, much more skilled than your opponent the outcome is decided before the duel even started. You can argue that retail is imbalanced as well, but with the competitive bracket being 3v3 there is 3x the amount of players, and 3x the complexity (actually it's far more because of more abilities) in arena you have far more opportunities to win by outskilling and overcoming balance problems.

    Moreover, classes have barely any actions to use in Classic. I'll just take my Mage as an example. Polymorph, CoC, Frostbolt, Fire Blast, CS, Wards, Barriers and mana mgmt (Evocation & gems) - that's about it (yes, it's a simplification, and yes, I know there's more to it, but it gets the point across). There are engineering items (and others) which add some more complexity but compared to retail it's still nothing. With that said, retail itself is a shadow of its former glory (WotLK, Cata, MoP). Also who wants to farm gold for consumables just to be able to PvP on an even footing? That's ridiculous to any serious competitive PvPer.

    Additionally, Classic PvP doesn't offer anything competitive in terms of "game modes". The only progression / game mode in Classic PvP is based on time investment (honor ranking in wPvP/random BGs). It has nothing, or very little, to do with skill and mostly to do with how long you're able to nerd it out for. Yet another reason why classic PvP, on the whole, is much worse in terms of competitiveness than retail, or in this case any other expansion.

    Lastly, you will almost never find a fair fight in Classic. It's either 140vs40, 80vs20, 20vs10, 5vs1, 8vs4 or some other ridiculous numbers where it's all about spamming your AoE buttons as hard as possible with the outcome clear from the very beginning. It's either that or you're getting attacked when you have no HP and zero mana, or when you have your PvE gear on (etc etc). There is no such thing as a fair fight in Classic outside of BGs (and even then it's mostly just premade vs pug, or pug with 0 healers vs pug with 3 healers). So even if classic was better in terms of gameplay, which it isn't, it still wouldn't be a better PvP game in any way. In retail, at least you can be sure you'll at least have a numerically fair fight.

    So all in all, no, you got it wrong. Retail PvP > Classic PvP any day of the week for a competitive PvPer. But with that said, retail still has a serious problem with both class design and its PvP systems (both gear and game mode related) and I wouldn't recommend it (nor would I recommend Classic to a PvPer).

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