retail pvp < classic pvp

[ClassicIsTerrible]

LMAO this is so delusional.

[Kralljin]

Equipping items just to counter one class will negatively affect your stats in the other class encounters.

You switch beforehand, it's that simple.

This isn't Arena where you are locked into items for the entire match, you equip one item, complete the fight, switch back.
There are outfit addons that help you with this sort of thing, allowing you to queue up items that you equip instantly after you drop combat.

This is why even items with longass CD's are useful, you use them once, unequip them afterwards and switch back to them once they're ready.

That aside, the ability to kill a mage is most certainly worth the stat drop within a single fight.

[FelPlague]

Retail pvp is just a bunch of smashing your face on the keyboard and seeing what random shit happens.

Classic pvp is pure skill and tactics, reading your enemy and counter playing.

Retail pvp is basically the LFR of pvp in regards to skill.

This cant be real can it? seriously? no this cant be real.

[willtron]

Theyre entirely different games. Its like saying ESO pvp > Retail PvP. It literally means nothing.

[erifwodahs]

You switch beforehand, it's that simple.

This isn't Arena where you are locked into items for the entire match, you equip one item, complete the fight, switch back.
There are outfit addons that help you with this sort of thing, allowing you to queue up items that you equip instantly after you drop combat.

This is why even items with longass CD's are useful, you use them once, unequip them afterwards and switch back to them once they're ready.

That aside, the ability to kill a mage is most certainly worth the stat drop within a single fight.

if you are out of combat - sure. No mage will let a warr drop combat.
What I wanted to say, not that it is impossible, it's just awful lot of effort while mages gets away with mediocore baseline skills usage. I guess it is a part of RPG, but mega counters exist, which makes pvp less about skill more about not being a clicker.

[Kralljin]

if you are out of combat - sure. No mage will let a warr drop combat.

Or you just equip the belt once it's ready...?
We're talking here about Mages, one of the three classes are contest for the most played spot besides Warriors and Rogues.

If there's any halfway decent fight, a mage will be present, even if not, there might also be a druid around who will most certainly attempt to root you with Nature's Grasp if you go for him.

Like really, that's Classic PvP 1x1.
Equip a given item to counter a class / spec, then force a fight with said spec / class.

which makes pvp less about skill more about not being a clicker.

In a game where Arena doesn't exist, having a hardcounter is not a huge problem.
Point is, this sort of thing gives classes an actual identity, it's not like Warriors are terrible because they get countered by Mages.

Moba game do that as well, if a class hardcounters you, you just need people around you that counter your counter or avoid a fight with your counter.
But as said, that doesn't work in a game where Arena is the focus point of PvP.

[Amarys]

I'd say this is true but mostly because Classic has a set of powerful skills available for every class/spec that is potions and engineering.

But in any case.. I hate retail PvP as it's balanced around arenas which I never liked and don't play and the fights are too slow (1vmore is close to impossible if there are healers and healers are too hard to kill even on their own, meaning in world PvP they can always run or survive till they get help).

[Hottage]

Classic PvP is great if you enjoy deleting players one every 5min as a mage, or every 30min as a warrior... or you roll a warlock/rogue.

Retail PvP is great if you prefer more balanced back and forth PvP where there's some vague wiff of counterplay.

[FAILoZOFF]

That statement of classic being better than retail.... is true!
...about as much as saying that eating week old pizza is better than eating fresh sh!t, I mean... I bet is is- BUT I rather wouldn't do either lol
they are both horrible and braindead, which is a shame as I believe there was a good deal of potential is such style of PvP, but since It was executed so badly we all know how it turned out.

[Amarys]

Classic PvP is great if you enjoy deleting players one every 5min as a mage, or every 30min as a warrior... or you roll a warlock/rogue.

Retail PvP is great if you prefer more balanced back and forth PvP where there's some vague wiff of counterplay.

Nah classic PvP is fun and a good player can counter anything, even win 1v3. There are a lot of videos of skilled druids and even holy priests killing everything in sight.

Retail PvP on the other hand is balanced around a game mode only a small minority of player enjoys (arenas), and fights are just too slow, boring and healing focused.

- - - Updated - - -

Moba game do that as well, if a class hardcounters you, you just need people around you that counter your counter or avoid a fight with your counter.
But as said, that doesn't work in a game where Arena is the focus point of PvP.

This is why I really hope arenas will get removed from the main game and made into a separate game mode where you can just unlock premade, geared characters for arenas only, with separate balancing.

[Kralljin]

This is why I really hope arenas will get removed from the main game and made into a separate game mode where you can just unlock premade, geared characters for arenas only, with separate balancing.

It's a difficult thing and Blizzard obviously has good reason to keep Arena, there are people that like Arena and it's been in the game for over 10 years now.

The major mistake of Arena was that Blizzard didn't think things through in TBC and instantly turned Arena into the pinnacle of WoW PvP because they wanted to get away from the Vanilla honor system (which wasn't bad intention to be honest).
Even Rob Pardo, who was Lead Game designer of WoW / TBC said back in 2009(!) that adding Arena was probably one of the biggest mistakes of TBC, as they didn't realize how difficult it would be to balance this game mode.

Pardo thinks that the single greatest mistake as far as design of the game is concerned was the choice to introduce competitive "e-sports" into the game via Arenas.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...rs-of-Warcraft

It's just one of those things that i don't think can be corrected, if you remove Arena, you basically are giving the middle finger to the few PvP players left in WoW, trying to lure in new people into PvP might not work because the concept of PvP in WoW has a rather bad / unfun imagine.

And they're not going to make seperate Servers because the number of people interested in this sort of thing aren't numerous enough to justify that.
Servers themselves are not the problem but if you make seperate Arena servers, people expect a lot more from you in terms of balance, right now a lot of people use the "PvP is a side game" excuse, that no longer flies once you'd cut Arena from regular servers entirely.

I think they now made the same mistake with M+ in Legion / BfA, but that's another discussion.

[Elias01]

In classic NOTHING require skill. Classes are limited to only few buttons, a lo of spells that people don't even use because this spells are usuless.

Also real pvp starts in rated content like 2v2/3v3 that classic can't offer. I am not defending bfa because it sucks but come on classic is just wow demo

Lol in classic pvp you have more buttons to use than in retail. For PVE yes but for PvP no.

[Puri]

I love PVP in classic and don't play PVP in retail ever since they removed the incentive (=gear) to do so, but as I am playing a geared mage this is not so strange.

But I don't see how classic PVP requires skill or tactics. When two people attack one player he is pretty much dead, even if he had 4 healers behind him. Heck even as pure frost mage without arcane power I can oneshot people with a critting frostbolt (or "one-global" with an added fireblast).

The only thing that matters in classic PVP is your gear and some critluck.

[Kralljin]

But I don't see how classic PVP requires skill or tactics. When two people attack one player he is pretty much dead, even if he had 4 healers behind him. Heck even as pure frost mage without arcane power I can oneshot people with a critting frostbolt (or "one-global" with an added fireblast).
.

Gear and buffs play a huge factor here.

If your enemy is a PvE geared Fury Warrior with stuff like Devilsaur set, they just fall over because they don't have any HP.
Now face a fullbuffed Warrior wearing T1 and they're not dying that easily, buffs make like 1k+ difference in Classic.

And if that Warrior happens to wear the Frost reflection trinket (because Warriors don't have some sort Vendetta vs Frost Mages) that Frostbolt might fly back at your face.
Let's not forget, variance in base HP is also a thing in Classic, Warriors don't have the same base HP as a Mage.

Especially against Mages, key factor is just surviving their initial burst, then you can just take them because they have to start hardcasting.

[Amarys]

I love PVP in classic and don't play PVP in retail ever since they removed the incentive (=gear) to do so, but as I am playing a geared mage this is not so strange.

But I don't see how classic PVP requires skill or tactics. When two people attack one player he is pretty much dead, even if he had 4 healers behind him. Heck even as pure frost mage without arcane power I can oneshot people with a critting frostbolt (or "one-global" with an added fireblast).

The only thing that matters in classic PVP is your gear and some critluck.

Even if this was true, its still better. At least when you PvP, you can kill things even if you're solo or with randoms. You forget that the enemy can one-global you as well, so it does require tactics and planning to make sure that you're the one who actually gets the frostbolt off first instead of running around in fear with 4 dots on you.

In retail though, if you mostly solo PvP or do casual BGs and healers get involved, you're useless as DPS. There's literally nothing you can do, no matter how good you are. Im guessing this is most players as only a small minority plays arenas and rated BGs are usually too hard to organize and don't offer enough rewards to be worth it. Casual PvP simply isn't fun right now.

[Rainyhealz]

Even if this was true, its still better. At least when you PvP, you can kill things even if you're solo or with randoms. You forget that the enemy can one-global you as well, so it does require tactics and planning to make sure that you're the one who actually gets the frostbolt off first instead of running around in fear with 4 dots on you.

In retail though, if you mostly solo PvP or do casual BGs and healers get involved, you're useless as DPS. There's literally nothing you can do, no matter how good you are. Im guessing this is most players as only a small minority plays arenas and rated BGs are usually too hard to organize and don't offer enough rewards to be worth it. Casual PvP simply isn't fun right now.

You're absolutely right. Bgs in retail without a dampening is terrible. Healers can easily survive 2 dps pummeling them. I'd rather have 1 shot chess game tactics than performing my rotation and cds perfectly in retail to maybe get a healer to 40% if dampening kicks jn

[Shakana]

I think classic pvp is better because classic is super natural on how pvp is manifested, skilled based.
Retail is more related with spell-based intensity, if you happen to play a OP class you just can oneshot things, you don't necessarily need to be skilled as long as you know a spell can melt someone or a combination of abilities and talents with your gear that you got from pve

at least this is how i see it.
I dont even play classic anymore, but i think i prefer way more the pvp of classic over retail.

And certainly i have been disliking pvp over the years, in cata i still loved pvp, mostly because pvp was still took seriously and had pvp gear vendors.
I liked in wotlk and cata, but never were able to enjoy it after panda until now.
snapshotting was way better for pvp.

i'm not one of those people that keeps saying go back to retail, actually all i do is play retail, i came back to classic about only 3 days because of nostalgic feelings, until i noticed i didn't want to "waste my time" on classic, so this opinion is genuinely something i feel and think about pvp.

[Dellboi]

Getting Rank 14 from sprinting toward an NPC and killing him in 6 minutes on repeat for 2 months ... ahhhhhhhhh, the skill.

[marceltrido]

PvP in both versions of the game sucks, but to say classic requires more "skill" is just ludicrous.