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  1. #21
    Elemental Lord HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    "But but but...it's all within her mAsTeR PLaN"

    Give me a fucking break.

  2. #22
    Wow, i think blizzard should of just not done the sylvanas arc if it really triggered people this much, i remember the torso controversy of the legion cinematic.
    Last edited by arandomuser; 2019-11-14 at 05:23 PM.

  3. #23
    if i recall correctly, she makes a really smart plan and then her insecurities/impulsive behaviors completely go 5 steps back on what she just planned. Example : burning of tree

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    She wouldn't, because the responsible writer, of these franchises would then make her the schemer she is supposed to be. Then again Gargoyles pretty much already has a sylvanas in it,called demona, she even reees just as often and screws herself over.
    I mean Sylvanas as she is now in WoW instead of what she would be under Hickman's writing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arandomuser View Post
    Wow, i think blizzard should of just not done the sylvanas arc if it really triggered people this much, i remember the torso controversy of the legion cinematic.
    Less triggered and finally having had enough and saying what they see. The emperor has no clothes on. Sylvanas is the emperor and Blizzard has given her so much exposure that it's clear that she's naked, except they keep telling us to disbelieve what we see because "she's totes clothed!!!"

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Quaade View Post
    I mean Sylvanas as she is now in WoW instead of what she would be under Hickman's writing.
    Anyone half decently written, is smarter than Sylvanas and pretty much everything wow related. The main problem are not the characters themselves, blizz could do quite a bit with their franchise, the problem is the simplistic writing style based on the rule of cool, being incredibly superficial and predictable.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    She wouldn't, because the responsible writer, of these franchises would then make her the schemer she is supposed to be. Then again Gargoyles pretty much already has a sylvanas in it,called demona, she even reees just as often and screws herself over.
    Except that Gargoyles, as a show, acknowledges the fact that Demona screws herself over, and she often has to deal with the consequences, even if she continues to blame everyone else.

    With Sylvanas, even when it seems like she's made a mistake, it still somehow ends up working out for her or we're just told it's actually all part of her "brilliant" plan. Even some of her past mistakes are being retconned in an attempt to make seem her more cunning, despite the fact that some of these retcons straight up contradict Sylvana's own inner thoughts.
    #RememberTeldrassil
    Because goodness knows Blizzard would rather people forget about the Night Elves entirely.

  7. #27
    Bloodsail Admiral TigTone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaade View Post
    You can change that to "she's always been incompetent since she was raised as a banshee," and you'd still be right As for accomplishing her goals. Anything can be brute-forced. If I wanted to make your life bad I could just pull out a gun in front of you and kill someone you were attached to, mission accomplished, except now you're angry at me.

    Or, I could make you fuck up your job, get you fired, bankrupt you, and make you seem like a heinous person so that everyone leaves you and you be all alone and if you had any pets they would be traffic accidented. Mission accomplished and I have plausible deniability for everything.

    Sylvanas is only clever and able to accomplish her goals because as her opposition behave so incredibly incompetent. That her incompetence seems like genius in comparison. If she was pitted against a real schemer, like Thanatos from Gargoyles, she would be dancing in the palm of his hand while she thought that she was winning and on top of the situation.
    No disagreement there, like other posters have said most Warcraft character including our players are written as idiots.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by RadasNoir View Post
    Except that Gargoyles, as a show, acknowledges the fact that Demona screws herself over, and she often has to deal with the consequences, even if she continues to blame everyone else.

    With Sylvanas, even when it seems like she's made a mistake, it still somehow ends up working out for her or we're just told it's actually all part of her "brilliant" plan. Even some of her past mistakes are being retconned in an attempt to make seem her more cunning, despite the fact that some of these retcons straight up contradict Sylvana's own inner thoughts.
    And makes her seem even more incompetent. Such as the Wrathgate one. She was behind it, sure, I can buy that, the way though, urgh. So she plans to take down Arthas without cutting off his escape routes, meaning that if he escapes then she would just have reduced her own side's war potential for nothing as those people there are certain to die of it unless Arthas killed them which would require him to have no escape routes available.
    Last edited by Quaade; 2019-11-14 at 05:48 PM.

  9. #29
    She's not brilliant. She's desperate. She's emotional. She's easily frightened and put off balance.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by runebobo View Post
    She's not brilliant. She's desperate. She's emotional. She's easily frightened and put off balance.
    None of these are qualities of a Mary Sue. So then why does everyone call her a Mary Sue?
    change can't wait.

  11. #31
    Bloodsail Admiral MrSaggins's Avatar
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    Honestly her failings don’t seem as important to me. Everybody fails, but how do you overcome them? Her binding of Varimathras in Warcraft three solidified her cunning for me.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    "There is another person on the other end of the chat screen. They're our friends; they're our brothers and sisters; they're our sons and daughters. Let's take a stand to reject hate and harassment, and let's redouble our efforts to be kind and respectful to one another, and let's remind the world what the gaming community is really all about."

    Mike Morhaime CEO of Blizzard Entertainment, Blizzcon 2014 (view)

  12. #32
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    It's not so much that Sylvanas is some kind of mastermind as much as every single character in lore are complete idiots.
    Fixed for you, Blizzard is very bad at writing any intelligent character. Sylvanas is only "smart" because Blizzard writes other people even dumber than she is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    Sylvanas is too smart. She even outsmarts her own inner thoughts
    This right here, Sylvanas is so intelligent she knows how to lie to the reader. Hard to take anything seriously when not even inner monologues are safe from being "well actually'd" by Afrasbi.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by united View Post
    None of these are qualities of a Mary Sue. So then why does everyone call her a Mary Sue?
    Because it's not about being "perfect". It's about being above the common rules set for other charactes within the universe by getting OP powers in secret and playing 4D chess with deities, it's about her failing due to her "flaws" but magically winning anyway and really never suffer real consequences due to her mistakes or to her opponents' victories, it's about her being always two steps ahead of everyone else "in theory" even if she is just a nobody and is in no way more special than anyone else. Because she's the creator's pet basically.

  14. #34
    It's not that she's not cunning. But that's not her motivation. She's cunning AND emotional. She can make elaborate schemes AND partially screw up by being too volatile.

  15. #35
    Sylvanas wasn't even smart in WC3.

  16. #36
    Herald of the Titans Darknessvamp's Avatar
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    You've pretty much hit it on the head OP. It really feels like Sylvanas got the same treatment that Garrosh got in Cata where he get characterised in two different styles (absolute warmonger and "There are standards to war") before they decided he would be the villain of the next expansion. Similarly Sylvanas was being written as genius mastermind who had plotted out a grand plan while also simultaneously having her own machinations subverted, sometimes whilst having been made aware of such subversion in advance, in addition to being invested in the future of her people at the same time as desiring all life to expire. They really need to corral their writers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    I'm one of the people that predicted that everything during BfA would be exactly according to Sylvanas' plans.
    It's amazing that Sylvanas planned to cockblock her own plan of causing death on mass via open war by letting the cat out of the bag that she was "Teh Next Evul" before Orgrimmar and the Stormwind Support and Blue Rebels could kill each other due to a slight scratch.

    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    Wrathgate: she was not yet in friendships with the jailor ( that only happend after this).
    Then you have to wonder why Afrasiabi is using that as an example of her motivation to kill all of the living which she didn't have until after meeting the Jailer.

    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    Undeath twists a person. Undeath changes a person.

    Not to mention all the trauma she went through well forced to do the Lich kings bidding.

    Take a deep look at her history from her perspective.

    Everyone just settles for the “ohh shit wrtiters doing what ever they want.” While that is partly true it’s not always out of the blue writing.
    So much trauma that she was fully prepared to betray him, usurper the Dreadlords who took over afterwards and force one to serve her (until he betrayed her, yes I remember), claimed a number of the local forces and settlements of Lordaeron and established a new society of Undead whilst striving to establish her claim on Azeroth and finalise her revenge against the human king who had given her said trauma. Followed by dying and deciding perpetual un-life was better than proper death and looking to extend that indefinitely for both herself and her people with particular interest in the Val'kyr. At least until BfA when she actually hated everyone all this time and was actually just raising them to kill them again for some sort of trade agreement with some nebulous entity in another plane of existence she just happened to encounter when she died and that she has been actively lying to herself about her own allegiance with.

    Totally not shit writers doing what they want.
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by united View Post
    None of these are qualities of a Mary Sue. So then why does everyone call her a Mary Sue?
    Mary Sue isn't really the right word. It's really just able to get away with doing stuff and/or getting good results despite the plan being very bad. Maybe plot armor is a better term?

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by david0925 View Post
    Mary Sue isn't really the right word. It's really just able to get away with doing stuff and/or getting good results despite the plan being very bad. Maybe plot armor is a better term?
    Every character has plot armor. Jaina and Azshara were just raid bosses this expansion that we don’t kill for... reasons?

  19. #39
    Feels like how Civil War was done in Marvel comics. Some writers felt the anti-registration side was in the right, while others felt pro-registration was in the right. Then the top dogs in charge went "Nope, pro-registration was in the right all along." Problem being was when the different writers had various comics making it look like the complete opposite.

    Too many cooks spoil the soup.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Seradi View Post
    Every character has plot armor. Jaina and Azshara were just raid bosses this expansion that we don’t kill for... reasons?
    I agree with you, just to varying degrees.

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