Should they remove void form?

[MatadorMedia]

Void Form was just a ripoff of old Demonology Metamorphosis. Just a lazy port-over when they stole Demon Form from Warlocks and gave it to Demon Hunters instead. I've never been a fan of the build and burst model in WoW; Shadow has not been enjoyable since adding Void Form.

[Malix Farwin]

You expect to be taken seriously when you say that a class in vanilla had a deep and not boring rotation. Don't worry, your opinion won't ever matter and gladly so.

You expect to be taken seriously when you have no reading comprehension. If you did you would know that is not what i said. This is why the American educational system has taken a nose dive, people cannot understand basic reading comprehension. let me help you out and dumb it down for you.

A. When i say "since vanilla" that means the rotation hasnt been this dumbed down SINCE that era. It does NOT mean that it is harder in Vanilla.

B. Shadow BFA rotation is basic. Its apply and use everything on Cooldown.

C. Shadow PvP in vanilla most certainly had more depth because you had to think about a lot more things on top of simply having more tools(not just Shadow abilities but priest abilities in general).

[Gonder]

I miss pre-Legion Shadow so, so much. Give me Clarity of Power again and I might actually be willing to switch out of healer spec more often.

[Wondercrab]

I've said it before, but the current design of shadow is a great idea that was applied to the worst possible spec they could've chosen for it. The mechanics, theme, and flavour are all rad, but the gameplay is probably the most niche thing in the entire game. Giving such a weird style of play to the only class in the game with a single DPS spec is just asking to alienate players. I would love the current shadow mechanics if they were attached to, say, Warlocks or Death Knights, but for Priests? I had so much more fun playing my Priest pre-Legion than I do now. Shadow is a weird flavour of gameplay that you want to try out every now and again when you're in the mood for something different, but it's not well suited to being the only available DPS choice for the entire class.

[Malix Farwin]

This i can agree with. They should of appied it to unpopular specs. Shadow was a popular spec and it design was already loved. If Void Form was its own spec of applied to something less popular than it would not be an issue. Shadow Priest didnt want changes.

[Vinzora]

Why would you remove the one thing that makes spriest gameplay unique?

[lostsoup]

Why would you remove the one thing that makes spriest gameplay unique?

To replace it with something just as unique that's more functional and less braindead.

[Kalistez]

Why would you remove the one thing that makes spriest gameplay unique?

You mean like when they stopped us being mana batteries ?

That said the current gameplay, although marginally unique, is a fucking cancer !

[Kithelle]

No, and add back in a Mind Spike / Devouring Plague alternate route for players or encounters.

I actually really like Void Form as a choice or the AoE route, but it's really a huge bummer that the additional bursty-single target shadow priest is gone.

Well I hate Voidform to be honest but if there was a alternative to it that didn't completely pale in comparison I'd be happy with that...problem is Blizz has proven time and time again they suck at balancing multiple styles in one spec.

[Alanar]

Tricky tbh, everything to me screams to remove it.. but there is a niche there. Something tells me some people are realy into that Void magic, because it's about the theme as well, remember in Legion we were pigeonhold into wearing a dagger and tied to that dagger is Voidform and it's all about void now, which never felt right to me. Shadow has more to it imo., so no real choice there.
Anyway, I am saying that without Voidform we are also back to where we started pre Legion (obviously), meaning before Blizzard actually gave shadow a detailed theme, which we lacked. Sadly Voidform is part of what shadow is now, I mean they went hardcore on that theme, with changing talents matching Voidform etc. So changing or removing Voidform in this case, will a rather big thing. .
I wish we could go the route of making it a end row talent, with 2 other crazy playstyle options. Not sure if this is something they want to revisit, since they removed Gladiorstance back then as well as an almost subspec type of idea, which they didn't like?

I am curious what other options people mention.

[Chickat]

Make Voidform a cd.

[CritFromAfar]

The older designs felt like more of a progression of power, and that made it more fun. Spriests were already instant cast with a lot of their spells and void form allowing them to move and cast just felt unnecessary. I liked all of the procs I could get which allowed me to move more, it made the spec more fun for me. Leveling an spriest in TBC you felt a huge power gain from level 1 to level 40, from struggling to keep mana after 1-2 mobs, and then when you finally got Shadowform you just felt so powerful. You don't get that feeling with current Spriest, you get Shadowform as soon you spec into Shadow.

I've already made a thread saying that I pretty much don't like the insanity aspects of the spec, it felt more elemental before, you know, dark, light, fire, earth, air, water, so it made it more interesting for me that it was a neutral kind of dark rather than the vicious kind of dark that other classes were. Making the resource insanity kind of made it less desirable for me, since I'm not into edgy dark classes. I get why they changed it, people used to complain about haste benefiting rogues more than caster DPS, but we get haste capped anyway, and I had more fun before, so it feels kind of pointless to me.

I didn't care about class identity, but if they had gone with something more neutral maybe I would have liked it better.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

Thank fucking God. I was scrolling through this thread and wondering if anybody here actually played WoD Shadow lmfao. It was garbage. MoP Shadow was better with snapshotting (though still a pretty shitty version of an Aff lock). The only thing I remember about WoD Shadow is annoying my raid by having to kill trash mobs outside HFC every fucking pull. (Thanks based Legendary ring.) Meh. DoTweave CoP was kinda cool but not really interesting enough to care strongly about. But really, 4.3 Shadow has everything Shadow players have complained about since Blizzard decided to redesign the spec for no fucking reason. Strong multi target? Got it. Good AE? Yep. Scales fine? Yep. Brings great utility? Old VE > new VE. Has a DPS cooldown? Yes x2 with T13 set bonus. I really have no idea why Blizzard keeps trying to reinvent the spec when they already got everything right once before.

WoD and MoP Shadow were the same though. WoD just happened to be a better version of the MoP playstyle. And yes, I'm talking about WoD with AS ofc, not the CoP Arcane Mage playstyle.

Early - mid Cata and Blackrock Foundry / Hellfirre Citadel before classtrinket buffs (WoD AS, not WoD CoP) are the two by far best versions of Shadow. 4.3 Shadow with the gimmicky Mind Spike burst rotation during SF was a strickly worse version of the more pure SP gameplay of Firelands and t11.


The 4 last years of Shadow development have been a waste tbh. The best thing would be to just remove the Void Form mechanic entirely and go back to some variation of Cata or WoD Shadow. Cata was the most advanced and perfected version of the original Shadow design from Classic, with 8 years of natural devlopment, WoD was when the MoP design had finally been polished and adjusted so much that it became a solid playstyle of its own. Legion and BFA has just been changes after changes without any direction.

But yeah, Blizzard has a long history of giving their most functional and to that date, best version of a spec, a complete redesign going into the new expansion, and then keeping fundamentally broken specs with horrible mechanics, expansion after expansion.

- - - Updated - - -

I honestly think they should get rid of perma-shadowform and just replace void form with a temporary shadowform. having both shadowform and void form is unnecessary and making shadowform a cooldown gives it some meaning whereas currently it has none aside from aesthetic. I wanna be able to see my character and his gear not just a shadowy blob 100% of the time

(and maybe they could add a glyph that makes you slightly shadowy all the time to appease people who would be mad about this)

Shadowform is the most iconic ability of the SP. Even suggesting its removal is high heresy. If you don't like it, you are obviously playing the wrong class.

The warlocks are over there -->

[ThrashMetalFtw]

I think you can only find WL enjoyable if you did not play previous interations of the class.

This verison of Aff is the best of all time as far as gameplay is concerned. MoP Aff was fun because of snapshotting, not the spec itself. Compare MoP Aff with BFA Aff without snapshotting, and BFA wins quite handily.

Destro has been the same every expansion since MoP. Sure, they changed minor spells here and there, but the core design has been the exact same for 8 years now. MoP Shadowburn is the most missed thing tbh.

Demo is a tricky situation, since I loved Cata and WoD Demo (WoD was just an improved version of MoP), but also love BFA Demo. BFA Demo is probably the most interesting spec in the game right now, just too bad that it's a bit undertuned. It's hard to say that BFA Demo is the best verison of the spec, but it's also not possible to say that it's boring or bad compared to the earlier versions.

[LordVargK]

This verison of Aff is the best of all time as far as gameplay is concerned. MoP Aff was fun because of snapshotting, not the spec itself. Compare MoP Aff with BFA Aff without snapshotting, and BFA wins quite handily.

Destro has been the same every expansion since MoP. Sure, they changed minor spells here and there, but the core design has been the exact same for 8 years now. MoP Shadowburn is the most missed thing tbh.

Demo is a tricky situation, since I loved Cata and WoD Demo (WoD was just an improved version of MoP), but also love BFA Demo. BFA Demo is probably the most interesting spec in the game right now, just too bad that it's a bit undertuned. It's hard to say that BFA Demo is the best verison of the spec, but it's also not possible to say that it's boring or bad compared to the earlier versions.

Yeah. But MoP HAD snapshotting, no sense to argue what would have been if not. And malefic grasp >>>> shadowbold. MoP had Soul Swap. I feel that alone is enough. Also maybe you like the observer design, but I feel Affliction should not be a burst window class. So Legion (and even MoP without snapshotting) is superior to BfA in every way in regards to Affliction.

Destro has technically been the same, just got worse with every expansion. From nerfing Shadowburn and removing it from baseline to talent, the nerf to backdraft stacks (again to create a talent), removal of embertap, changing the mastery to random flat damage buff, thus shifting damage from chaosbolt to lame filler spells, nerfing fire and brimstone to the ground... I could go on. Yeah, you still build embers (remember BfA removed this mechanic at the start too and reintroduced it only after massive protest in 8.1) and cast chaosbolts but thats about it. The gameplay is soo much slower, it's insane. The only good thing is the infernal as a ember generator. In contrast to Affliction, destruction should have burst windows and the infernal is a nice tool for that.

I have to agree on Demo with you. I like it and it's very interesting. Demon commander should be tweaked around with, as it has a similar role to the observer and the infernal, which makes the 3 specs mechanically very similar, als they all rely on burst window phases (where only destruction should). But it's not as bad as with Affliction. But I'm still extremely salty that MoP Demo got removed in favour of DHs and we were told in Legion "Demo is broken, don't play it". I loved old Demo. And at it's high in ToT (with UVoLS) it got more imps than we have now. Sure that was broken but still sooo much fun.

So basically 2/3 specs got stricly worse from Legion/MoP and Demo is different but still fun. Overall I stand by my statement that warlock got worse over the years.

[Mardux]

You expect to be taken seriously when you have no reading comprehension. If you did you would know that is not what i said. This is why the American educational system has taken a nose dive, people cannot understand basic reading comprehension. let me help you out and dumb it down for you.

A. When i say "since vanilla" that means the rotation hasnt been this dumbed down SINCE that era. It does NOT mean that it is harder in Vanilla.

B. Shadow BFA rotation is basic. Its apply and use everything on Cooldown.

C. Shadow PvP in vanilla most certainly had more depth because you had to think about a lot more things on top of simply having more tools(not just Shadow abilities but priest abilities in general).

Your racist bullshit aside...

You claimed that vanilla shadow was "deeper" than it is now (ignoring that you think so highly of yourself that your opinions are fact). Someone replied that it wasn't deeper in vanilla. You then go on to claim that you didnt say it was harder in an effort to discredit their opinion.

You make racist comments about americans and their education, and yet you cant even figure out your response to them was nothing more than a strawman.

Hopefully, this was "dumbed down" enough for you, its doubtful though, sadly.

Edit: forgot to add... your second bullet point shows just what level you have the ability to play the class at. Lol

[Malix Farwin]

Your racist bullshit aside...

You claimed that vanilla shadow was "deeper" than it is now (ignoring that you think so highly of yourself that your opinions are fact). Someone replied that it wasn't deeper in vanilla. You then go on to claim that you didnt say it was harder in an effort to discredit their opinion.

You make racist comments about americans and their education, and yet you cant even figure out your response to them was nothing more than a strawman.

Hopefully, this was "dumbed down" enough for you, its doubtful though, sadly.

Edit: forgot to add... your second bullet point shows just what level you have the ability to play the class at. Lol

What racist bullshit? You literally seemly threw race from the literal thin air. You are race baiting off of nothing. The American Educational system has gone down(i am American btw and i see it everyday, and America is a country not a Race which you just further proved my point). https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...14_stem_table/ (we used to be much higher on that list in all three categories).

Second, no you think so highly of your own opinion. Not only is this something that i myself see from playing every generation of Shadow but also the Shadow community as a whole(including the priest discord and howtopriest).

Third, again i said "SINCE VANILLA", LIKE HOLY CRAP GET AN EDUCATION. THAT DOES NOT MEAN VANILLA SHADOW IS "DEEPER", AT BEST YOU COULD OF SAID AS DEEP. You know like Shadow hasnt been this easy "SINCE" Vanilla. This means Shadow was harder in BC-Legion.

Second, yea it proves that its so easy i do not even have to think. literally compare my logs to other shadow priest, used https://www.wowanalyzer.com/, and even talked with other mythic level shadow priest(yes i mythic raid) because when you are at that level you do everything you can and confirmed quite literally everything ive said and done. You are just butthurt because you want to believe BFA Shadow is more complex than it is. Just gonna block you, gonna need you to go ahead and finish grade school and learn a bit more reading comprehension before you talk to me again.

P.S.: At least capitalize "American".

[LordVargK]

Third, again i said "SINCE VANILLA", LIKE HOLY CRAP GET AN EDUCATION. THAT DOES NOT MEAN VANILLA SHADOW IS "DEEPER", AT BEST YOU COULD OF SAID AS DEEP.

P.S.: At least capitalize "American".

Uses "could of". Calls himself educated (or rather calls others uneducated) in the exact same sentence. You're a special kind of "educated", aren't you? Like holy shit, way to expose yourself.

Funny thing: Look at @ThrashMetalFtw's signature. It's right there in this thread.

Also correcting capitalization in an online forum. Nice meme.

Pro tip: If you want to get taken seriously you should focus on talking about the subject rather than insulting people. Because you could make the best points in the world, but nobody would listen to you, because you are an awful person to argue with.

[Malix Farwin]

Uses "could of". Calls himself educated (or rather calls others uneducated) in the exact same sentence. You're a special kind of "educated", aren't you? Like holy shit, way to expose yourself.

Funny thing: Look at @ThrashMetalFtw's signature. It's right there in this thread.

Also correcting capitalization in an online forum. Nice meme.

Pro tip: If you want to get taken seriously you should focus on talking about the subject rather than insulting people. Because you could make the best points in the world, but nobody would listen to you, because you are an awful person to argue with.

Thats interesting, never called myself educated but that i instead understand reading comprehension. Theres a difference. Second, I was talking about the subject at hand, the man insulted me and called me a racist , am i suppose to pretend like he didn't? Third the only reason i even said capitalize American is because i actually used to serve in the Military and find it disrespectful, notice i didnt point out all the other words that weren't capitalized because i know grammar isn't perfect on the internet but we aren't talking about grammar we are talking about people's ability to understand what people are trying to say, aka reading COMPREHENSION.

Fourth not sure why you think you are some sort of saint, you are an awful person to talk to as well. You literally chastise me while unironically doing the exact same thing you accuse me of. What a joke. You aren't furthering the conversation but instead responding to a conversation that you quite literally have no part in. I ended the conversation when i blocked the guys why are you trying to revive it. Quite literally an A and B conversation and you are the C that needs to be out of it. I can tell you are the type of person who cant do that so let me help you by blocking you as well, have a nice day.

[LordVargK]

Thats interesting, never called myself educated but that i instead understand reading comprehension. Theres a difference. Second, I was talking about the subject at hand, the man insulted me and called me a racist , am i suppose to pretend like he didn't? Third the only reason i even said capitalize American is because i actually used to serve in the Military and find it disrespectful, notice i didnt point out all the other words that weren't capitalized because i know grammar isn't perfect on the internet but we aren't talking about grammar we are talking about people's ability to understand what people are trying to say, aka reading COMPREHENSION.

Fourth not sure why you think you are some sort of saint, you are an awful person to talk to as well. You literally chastise me while unironically doing the exact same thing you accuse me of. What a joke. You aren't furthering the conversation but instead responding to a conversation that you quite literally have no part in. I ended the conversation when i blocked the guys why are you trying to revive it. Quite literally an A and B conversation and you are the C that needs to be out of it. I can tell you are the type of person who cant do that so let me help you by blocking you as well, have a nice day.

Yeah, I'm not an American, so you being ex military does not really impress me. Also why is that important to you? You were talking down on American education, so I assumed you're not American yourself. But that could be some kind of sociocritic sarcasm of yours, I don't know.
On the topic of why I intervened: For one, I was bored. For two, your statement was so incredibly hilarious, I just had to comment it. And no, I'm not doing the same to you as you did to your discussion partner, simply because I'm not discussing with you. I'm calling you out on your bs.