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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosgoth View Post
    In case you don't know, if you preorder the heroic edition, you can get a transmog set. However you have to do a quest first and gather 40 Echoes of Mortality. The thing is that there seems to be a mechanic, that gives you a couple of them rather quickly each day, but after a few, you hit a point where the droprate is severely reduced. So for example you might enter a dungeon, do 5 pulls and after 5 minutes get 6 Echoes from one mob. But then you hit the cap, and now you get like 1 drop per hour.

    I and many other players have noticed this. Essentially this means that either you can invest 5 minutes per day and do that and get your quest done after about a week with minimal effort, or you can accept the low drop chances and grind all day. Some have reported finishing it in 90 minutes, but I am fairly skeptical of that, since others report 1 drop per hour, even in good farmspots.

    Bottomline is, you can either wait and invest minimal time and effort, or get it done day one with a lot of grinding.

    Why is Blizzard doing this? I mean let's set aside how obviously terrible it is to force players through this quest after they have just paid real money to have access to this transmog set. But what is the point of such a quest? Why let people decide between waiting it out and taking the grind?

    Could it be that they are testing something for the next expansion?

    We know that Torghast will give legendaries and that players will be able to do Torghast as much as they like. Now if whatever resource Torghast gives that is needed for crafting legendaries has a cap, then most likely people will just reach the cap and stop playing.

    But let's say you need 1000x [legendary resource] and you can get 50 of them easily each day. It takes you just one average run or something. You do your daily Torghast for 20 days, and you get to craft your first legendary. But what if, if you kept playing, it keeps giving you that resource, but at a much reduced rate? So hardcore players will get to craft their legendary earlier, but they will have to grind it out.

    I'm not saying this would be a great thing, I'm just wondering if Blizzard is considering something like this.
    Im not saying, that i am in favor of a soft cap, where the drop rate drops as you get X amount....But im not really pissed off either.

    Like, its not a hard objective to get. I could understand if you needed 3000 and you were slowed down to 5 drops pr dungeon, but it more seems like a little slowdown instead. Like if you need 40 echoes, you still won't spend more than some hours to get the set, so it does not really hurt the time consument that much
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

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  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    When not capped, players are encouraged to grind as the most efficient way to achieve the goal, even though most players don't enjoy grinding. That's a perverse incentive and positive game design avoids that sort of thing.

    And yes, I know it's a MMO and there's a ton of rewards for grinding. All of that is bad design, or potentially lazy design, and most MMOs including WoW are lousy with it.
    control yourself and set your own cap.

    like, goddamn, i know that personal responsibility is under attack these days, but has it truly become such a foreign concept?

    everything should be open to being done as you feel like doing it. if want to go out and no-life the fuck out of something, i should get the reward for that before someone that bitches about their work making them only play an hour a day.

    and yeah, if this is the case op, then it is a new annoying system in place to draw out MAU's. though, it could be a bug. i remember a while back they did something to combat botting mass farms, but i can't remember what it was. could it be unintentionally effecting this item?
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  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Shauren View Post
    Are you just trying to stir up shit? In that case you got what you wanted
    It really seems like that. OP is not very productive and not really reachable by logical arguments.

    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    control yourself and set your own cap.

    like, goddamn, i know that personal responsibility is under attack these days, but has it truly become such a foreign concept?

    everything should be open to being done as you feel like doing it. if want to go out and no-life the fuck out of something, i should get the reward for that before someone that bitches about their work making them only play an hour a day.
    yeah, Blizz would let you do that, if you were willing to pay for the entire patch. They will not develop content for you to consume in a week and then cancel your sub until the next patch drops. And it's not possible to create content as fast as players consume it.

    But you are right: more playtime should lead to more rewards, which is why I'm all in favour of a softcap after which your rate of aquisition drops. But not too harsh, maybe to like half until you reach another softcap (double the first one) at which point your rate of aquisition really tanks to maybe 10% or so. In that scenario you would be able to grind and be twice as fast as the casual user who goes for the first softcap by playing 3 times the amount. And you really could all in and grind you ass of, but it would take you 10 times more effort, which is fair because you still get a hefty lead if you play more.
    Last edited by LordVargK; 2019-11-18 at 04:38 PM.

  4. #64
    I think it's a fair mechanic, if someone wants to put in extra time for extra reward then they should be rewarded. Currently once you've exhausted your WQs or whatever for the day or you're done.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    yeah, Blizz would let you do that, if you were willing to pay for the entire patch. They will not develop content for you to consume in a week and then cancel your sub until the next patch drops. And it's not possible to create content as fast as players consume it.

    But you are right: more playtime should lead to more rewards, which is why I'm all in favour of a softcap after which your rate of aquisition drops. But not too harsh, maybe to like half until you reach another softcap (double the first one) at which point your rate of aquisition really tanks to maybe 10% or so. In that scenario you would be able to grind and be twice as fast as the casual user who goes for the first softcap by playing 3 times the amount. And you really could all in and grind you ass of, but it would take you 10 times more effort, which is fair because you still get a hefty lead if you play more.
    that's stupid.

    this is pretty much the way it worked up until wotlk, and the game has never done better since. adding caps, or soft caps, to anything that you can grind in a game is nothing but business bullshit.

    people want to be mindless dogs and bitch if they no life it and run out of content, tell them to deal with it. it all comes back to personal responsibility. you go out into the game, you pick what you want to do and you do it. you should have some form of comprehension that there will always be a limited amount of things to do. if you want to set some kind of limit so you feel like you always have things to do, that's your own prerogative.

    i don't want to be limited by anything but the actual existence of content to consume. if i want to throw on a tabard and do dungeons till i feel like i want to die, that's what i want to do. that's the way it should be. i repeatedly face the fact that even places like 4chan lacks the amount of entertainment i need to consume to not feel bored. i would need an unending stream of lore being produced by the minute to not be bored, and that's never going to happen. caps will do nothing but piss me off and make me bored faster.
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  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    that's stupid.

    this is pretty much the way it worked up until wotlk, and the game has never done better since. adding caps, or soft caps, to anything that you can grind in a game is nothing but business bullshit.
    This was the way it worked up until the end of cata. And in cata the decline started. So these systems have little to do with WoW's success. And "business bullshit" is the only reason WoW still exists.

    people want to be mindless dogs and bitch if they no life it and run out of content, tell them to deal with it. it all comes back to personal responsibility. you go out into the game, you pick what you want to do and you do it. you should have some form of comprehension that there will always be a limited amount of things to do. if you want to set some kind of limit so you feel like you always have things to do, that's your own prerogative.

    Blizz can't tell them to deal with it, since they will just stop paying. The solution to this is to ditch the 1 month subscription option and only offer 3 months at a time. With this limitation your idea works decently. You just can't have the new content increase your characters powerlevel too much as that would break the balance of the game. And this wasn't even possible in vanilla as raids were limited and the only source of high-end equipment so no grinding your powerlevel there.

    i don't want to be limited by anything but the actual existence of content to consume. if i want to throw on a tabard and do dungeons till i feel like i want to die, that's what i want to do. that's the way it should be. i repeatedly face the fact that even places like 4chan lacks the amount of entertainment i need to consume to not feel bored. i would need an unending stream of lore being produced by the minute to not be bored, and that's never going to happen. caps will do nothing but piss me off and make me bored faster.
    And with my suggestion you won't be limited. Maybe it should be worded differently, like exp. Think about this: Torghast will drop the legendary currency. This will be very very slow and tedious, like grinding reputation in classic (think of every legendary as a classic faction). BUT at the start of every weekly reset your legendary powerbar, which has normally the color yellow (or whatever will be used in SL), gets the color red. This works like the rested buff for exp but with factor 10. You grind X amount of legendary power, your powerbar will change to green and you will get 5 times as much power. But once you get X power again, it changes back to yellow and you get no bonus. You can still grind as much as you want, just without a bonus.

    Does that sound better?
    Last edited by LordVargK; 2019-11-18 at 05:33 PM.

  7. #67
    Where are you guys getting this first few a day drop quick. Grinded mobs for 15 min for a few days now. Got none. How

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Nosgoth View Post
    But doesn't that discourage playing? If I can get something done for the day in 5 minutes, and after that it is hours of playing to achieve the same thing in several hours, doesn't that just tell me that it is better to just wait for the next day and invest as little time as possible.
    I feel like you forget that there's... other things to do in WoW. Like, I'd personally vastly prefer if 90% of my game time wasn't taken up fully by end-game chores and busy work just to barely keep up with other players who did all the same shit three months ago and are further ahead of me.

    I want to play WoW, but I'd like to do some of the other fun things that exist in the game. Not just "grind Mechagon and Nazj on my eighth character because tanks need those essences"
    "I have watched the other races... I have seen their squabbling, their ruthlessness. Their wars do nothing but scar the land, and drive the wild things to extinction. No, they cannot be trusted. Only beasts are above deceit." - Rexxar

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    control yourself and set your own cap.
    That is highly naive. People will follow the optimal strategy once they discover it. If grinding is the most efficient way to achieve their goals, they will grind.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Nosgoth View Post
    and that players will be able to do Torghast as much as they like.
    This is unconfirmed, they've stated the opposite.

    https://www.wowhead.com/news=296035/...ing-pathfinder

    Q: Can you repeat Torghast as many times as you want on the same day? is it a weekly lockout? Is it similar to the Withered Army Training scenario?
    A: Currently, we're still thinking about it, TBD, but probably something similar to the Withered Training Scenario. In the end, we want it to be something that you may want to at least try to progress through once a week.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Just1c3 View Post
    I feel like you forget that there's... other things to do in WoW. Like, I'd personally vastly prefer if 90% of my game time wasn't taken up fully by end-game chores and busy work just to barely keep up with other players who did all the same shit three months ago and are further ahead of me.

    I want to play WoW, but I'd like to do some of the other fun things that exist in the game. Not just "grind Mechagon and Nazj on my eighth character because tanks need those essences"
    Did I disagree with that anywhere?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    This is unconfirmed, they've stated the opposite.
    Nope. They've said this outright at Blizzcon. You'll be able to do Torghast as much as you like.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    That is highly naive. People will follow the optimal strategy once they discover it. If grinding is the most efficient way to achieve their goals, they will grind.
    read above, Blizzard is setting a cap, they just haven't decided on it yet.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nosgoth View Post
    Nope. They've said this outright at Blizzcon. You'll be able to do Torghast as much as you like.
    And this is a QA from the developer working on it. AT BLIZZCON. So again, I'm more likely to listen to the QA from Blizzcon, that you conveniently cut out of your quote to make you look correct, then the hype of the moment what's next panel from someone not even working on it.
    Last edited by Zyky; 2019-11-18 at 10:26 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  13. #73
    Yes indeed, I'm aware of that, I was not responding to you re Torgoth.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    And this is a QA from the developer working on it. AT BLIZZCON. So again, I'm more likely to listen to the QA from Blizzcon, that you conveniently cut out of your quote to make you look correct, then the hype of the moment what's next panel from someone not even working on it.
    What are you talking about? Ion presented the "what's next" panel.

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