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  1. #61
    Over 9000! Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bison91 View Post
    I dont see her as absolute evil and ofc she made alot of crap and hope it will be somehow explained, other then that...
    No, she was not an absolute idiot. Its a bit harder to consider who is wiser and who is idiot.. i think its a bit harder then that.
    Of course not, burning Teldrassil and killing thousands of innocent civilians and kids - because a dying enemy stood up to you - to funnel their souls into the maw and make yourself more powerful are totally not the actions of a villain.

    o wait
    My greatest fear is that one day, my MMO-Champion ignore list will run out of space.

  2. #62
    High Overlord Lorde Snow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by united View Post
    Sylvanas at this point is wow’s most iconic character in history.
    Yeah Just like Hogger

  3. #63
    I like her and Nathanos representing the dom woman male sub dynamic.

  4. #64
    High Overlord Lorde Snow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Of course not, burning Teldrassil and killing thousands of innocent civilians and kids - because a dying enemy stood up to you - to funnel their souls into the maw and make yourself more powerful are totally not the actions of a villain.

    o wait

    Fanboys of her cult live in a constant illusion and an eternal denial of reality, it is useless to debate facts with them, cause for them do not matter moral values, empathy, justice, all that matters are the breasts and ass of their goddess waifu.
    [Infraction]
    Last edited by Rozz; 2019-11-19 at 01:34 PM. Reason: Minor Trolling - Be civil

  5. #65
    High Overlord Aleloron's Avatar
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    I neither like nor dislike her character, but I am thoroughly creeped out by people who think that she is “hawt and secksi”; in general I’m creeped out by anyone that finds a video game or cartoon character sexually attractive. I’m attracted to real, living, breathing women here in the real world. But at the end of the day how you live your life is your business and not mine.

    I am pretty much tired of her though, and I am hoping that Shadowlands is the last expansion with her as so much of a central character for a few years at least. I don’t want her killed off and written out of the game entirely but I definitely want her to take a backseat for a few expansions.
    Don’t ask me to explain my idiocy; I’m in my early 40’s and still don’t understand it myself.

  6. #66
    I've noticed, lately, that there's two kinds of entertainment consumers across all media, right now. This goes for anything that attempts to tell a story, movies, books, comics, video games, etc.

    Basically there are "live in the moment" consumers, that are happy to take a story at face value, so to say, and simply accept whatever writers present them as the world and narrative of a story. They tend to be happier with the stories they interact with and will have feelings about characters based solely on actions within the narrative.

    Then there are the "I want it my way" consumers. They tend to be far more critical of storytelling itself, contradictions within the narrative, and what they perceive as "bad writing." They tend to set a higher bar for quality storytelling...however criticisms can often come across as "the writer didn't write what I wanted, so this is bad."

    People will fall within, and dance between, a range of these perspectives. Where one is a passive viewer and the other has lots of opinions on what "Should have" been. In this way, I feel like, how you approach storytelling influences your acceptance of Sylvanas and her current arc.

  7. #67
    Arguably her shedding the Horde was the best thing that could've happened to her, lets her villainy "off the leash" so to speak, the problem of course being now everyone's out for blood and won't be happy with not perma-killing her within the expansion.

    Her having such a sudden power creep still doesn't sit well with some people but now that we at least know what it is we can destroy it like we did with Frostmourne.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebra the War Criminal View Post
    ???

    She literally threw a temper tantrum in 8.2.5 and decided to abandon her place as leader of one of the two mortal superpowers in the world for literally no reason.
    literally one of two tantrums thrown in the storyline railroading the character out of the faction for literally no other reason than to escalate drama pointlessly.

  9. #69
    She is my favorite character. I’m a super sylvanas fan boy. I was even cool with teldrassil because I thought it was kind of cool to have a real world change from the war. Like the horde pulled off a major victory.

    But now that they’ve revealed everything was just some 4D chess game where she played everyone and nothing she did was as it appeared. I kind of feel dumb for supporting her for so long. I HATE when a story pulls a twist on you that is impossible to see coming. What makes a twist good is when you can go back and piece it all together and figure it out. You can’t with her story because they suddenly change everything. Oh she was just playing when she helped Varian, oh she was lying when she said she didn’t want to be warchief. Come on.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Of course not, burning Teldrassil and killing thousands of innocent civilians and kids - because a dying enemy stood up to you - to funnel their souls into the maw and make yourself more powerful are totally not the actions of a villain.

    o wait
    Agree on that ofc but... Arhas for example is super hero despite what he did.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kantoro View Post
    I think that whoever is doing the writing for WoW is just bad at it. The only character worse than her in WoW lore is Garrosh. And it's a close race.
    yep. thats when the crysis had started. when they didnt know how to continue lore so they found a way with Garry. Too bad, just killed a nice heroes.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Nynax View Post
    I've noticed, lately, that there's two kinds of entertainment consumers across all media, right now. This goes for anything that attempts to tell a story, movies, books, comics, video games, etc.

    Basically there are "live in the moment" consumers, that are happy to take a story at face value, so to say, and simply accept whatever writers present them as the world and narrative of a story. They tend to be happier with the stories they interact with and will have feelings about characters based solely on actions within the narrative.

    Then there are the "I want it my way" consumers. They tend to be far more critical of storytelling itself, contradictions within the narrative, and what they perceive as "bad writing." They tend to set a higher bar for quality storytelling...however criticisms can often come across as "the writer didn't write what I wanted, so this is bad."

    People will fall within, and dance between, a range of these perspectives. Where one is a passive viewer and the other has lots of opinions on what "Should have" been. In this way, I feel like, how you approach storytelling influences your acceptance of Sylvanas and her current arc.
    Characterizing the latter group as "wanting things to go their way" is telling. The way I'd like things to go (Broll coming back now that the writers aren't salty about him being more popular than Med'an and crushing some heads) is far different than the way things should have gone, and that is also far different than the way things are now. There are legitimate problems with the way Blizzard likes to write this trash, believe it or not.

    It's the same way sequel sympathizers have demonized anyone with the smallest criticisms, sans the sexism angle.

  12. #72
    Edit: whoops sorry, wrong thread!

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Arguably her shedding the Horde was the best thing that could've happened to her, lets her villainy "off the leash" so to speak, the problem of course being now everyone's out for blood and won't be happy with not perma-killing her within the expansion.

    Her having such a sudden power creep still doesn't sit well with some people but now that we at least know what it is we can destroy it like we did with Frostmourne.
    Well, we have no idea where the power creep ends, that's the issue. Since the War of the Thorns she has produced new powers in every single fight she's been in. Nothing says we've seen the extent of her abilities; for all we know next time around she'll summon a rain of Infernals, cast a better Cataclysm than Deathwing, and/or shapeshift into Med'an.

    And yeah, her shedding the Horde is good in theory, but if it means she has the same impunity that she enjoyed as Warchief because everyone around her is a bleeding moron then the situation barely improves.

  14. #74
    Herald of the Titans Alex86el's Avatar
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    i didnt like her too much. but at least she used to be interesting.
    now she is just super boring. she is way too powerful, humiliating every opponent.
    and she will eventually be the antihero saviour. while redeeming herself would be ok, all that crap "it was her plan all along" is very annoying to me as a player/reader.

  15. #75
    I am Murloc! Chonar's Avatar
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    She's a good representative of what vengeance (Arthas) and fear (Oblivion) can do to you for motivation.
    I did not hit that snowmound, it's not true! It's bullshit, I did not hit it. I did NAHT.
    Oh hai Yeti

  16. #76
    So it's ok for Us, the player to murder millions of whatever every day but this one undead elf kills a tree and suddenly it's an issue? ok. Le'ts be honest, no one ever goes there so it's not like anything was lost, I assure you there are more people in Silvermoon right now then there ever was in that tree. When Garrosh dropped that bomb.. That I could understand but burning a tree? I'm 100% ok with that... This is coming from a guy who loved Garrosh more than Sylvanas

  17. #77
    Yeah well, even the greatest evils in our earthly history still have fans that wave their flags around, and those did not have the benefit of being in a hot elven body, so I am not that surprised anymore, just mildly nauseated. Everything about Sylvanas has been said, she is an evil psychopath that wants to end all life on the planet for her very own selfish reasons. If you can see such a character burn down a tree full of innocents and happily follow her to the next, while proclaiming how she is absolutely not evil, there is nothing we can say that will change your mind anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by setsuna f seiei View Post
    So it's ok for Us, the player to murder millions of whatever every day but this one undead elf kills a tree and suddenly it's an issue? ok. Le'ts be honest, no one ever goes there so it's not like anything was lost, I assure you there are more people in Silvermoon right now then there ever was in that tree. When Garrosh dropped that bomb.. That I could understand but burning a tree? I'm 100% ok with that... This is coming from a guy who loved Garrosh more than Sylvanas
    The subtle difference being that we kill criminals/pirates/warriors/fighters in short people that can defend themselves or made the choice to "live by the sword, die by the sword". Teldrassil on the other hand was full of civilians, people that were specifically kept out of the War of Thorns to keep them safe. A lot of them children.

    My quests have noch yet made me kill children for gold, but considering the attitude most Horde players here demonstrate I suppose it is a regular occurance over at the red team. Talk about a broken moral compass if you can see nothing wrong with burning down a tree full of innocent civilians.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by bison91 View Post
    I dont see her as absolute evil and ofc she made alot of crap and hope it will be somehow explained, other then that...
    No, she was not an absolute idiot. Its a bit harder to consider who is wiser and who is idiot.. i think its a bit harder then that.
    I doubt that two attempted genocides, starting a war to simply “score frags” , conspiring with Jailer to “help” Vol’Jin die and possibly being behind the imbalance of Afterlife can be “explained”. She just did so much that any redemption or whitewashing will be hamfisted and stupid.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleloron View Post
    I neither like nor dislike her character, but I am thoroughly creeped out by people who think that she is “hawt and secksi”; in general I’m creeped out by anyone that finds a video game or cartoon character sexually attractive. I’m attracted to real, living, breathing women here in the real world. But at the end of the day how you live your life is your business and not mine.

    I am pretty much tired of her though, and I am hoping that Shadowlands is the last expansion with her as so much of a central character for a few years at least. I don’t want her killed off and written out of the game entirely but I definitely want her to take a backseat for a few expansions.
    Maybe i am nitpicking but i just find her to be not sexy at all for a simple reason - she is dead. That means her body no longer produces heat, and possibly all rotten from the inside. So despite her having attractive facade closer inspection will reveal a cold, slimy mess that i dont even want to think about and it turns me off.

  19. #79
    I am Murloc! Chonar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by setsuna f seiei View Post
    So it's ok for Us, the player to murder millions of whatever every day but this one undead elf kills a tree and suddenly it's an issue? ok. Le'ts be honest, no one ever goes there so it's not like anything was lost, I assure you there are more people in Silvermoon right now then there ever was in that tree. When Garrosh dropped that bomb.. That I could understand but burning a tree? I'm 100% ok with that... This is coming from a guy who loved Garrosh more than Sylvanas
    Are you willingly oblivious or is it all just a happy accident?

    "Whats the big deal, Alexandria's library was only a dumb old building, just make a new one."
    "King Solomon's temple was just a pile of rocks, who cares about the Ark of the Covenant?"
    "Man it was only two towers and two airplanes, we got dozens of them, why so sad about it?"

    I am honestly, LITERALLY unable to see how you can be so dense that you think the tragedy in this story is about "just the tree" and not the thousands of inhabitants and hundreds of priceless artifacts and cultural history they had with them.
    I did not hit that snowmound, it's not true! It's bullshit, I did not hit it. I did NAHT.
    Oh hai Yeti

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by setsuna f seiei View Post
    So it's ok for Us, the player to murder millions of whatever every day but this one undead elf kills a tree and suddenly it's an issue? ok. Le'ts be honest, no one ever goes there so it's not like anything was lost, I assure you there are more people in Silvermoon right now then there ever was in that tree. When Garrosh dropped that bomb.. That I could understand but burning a tree? I'm 100% ok with that... This is coming from a guy who loved Garrosh more than Sylvanas
    If we have to explain that the PC does not canonically kill millions of people then there is nothing to discuss here, you are oblivious.

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