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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    If killing "parts" of such a group is genocide then the Death Sentence in Texas is genocide.
    ok, 1. unless i missed something and people in Texas are getting executed for their ethnicity rather than CRIMES, no its not... and in dalaran we are not talking about 1-2 belfs but about HEAVY casualties as stated in gamepedia, if you have better source of lore that says otherwise, please let me know

    2. Jaina betrayed the neutrality first (helped alliance hide divine bell) but thats not important, if you played the q line for alliance first or one of first q was to cripple/kill sunreaver dragonhawks, so she "just" wanted them out (without authority, as she was 1of 6 leaders), but then took their means of escape... seems fishy...
    as for sunreaver leader, he had a choice to let belfs be massacred by Garrosh (of who he knew he wouldnt hesitate to do it) or try to reason with Jaina, who he thought would be more reasonable... well she wasnt
    and no offense, but sending soldiers against innocent, clueless mostly civilian targets, unless you are fucking retarded you have to know it will be fucking bloody...
    on top of it, the alliance forces were doing things like feeding SHARKS with the arrested belfs, so fucking surprise they rather choose to fight... sure Jaina didnt order that, BUT, as a leader/commander who gave the order to attack/arrest, she IS responsible, at least partialy...

    3.genocide definition in azeroth, ok, i would much rather follow that than the real worrld definition, but unless you can provide it you cant decide on your own what is and what is not a genocide according to it, without it its just your opinion not a fact...

    4. cant speak for others, i never said horde havent done anything bad or that taurajo is in any means comparable to teldrasil, just that when alliance do something bad its somehow all right...

    ill give you simple example, bombing theramore, which was military target, as a tactical move in war, is viewed as horrible, YET wiping whole fucking tribe of taurens in barrens, which was clearly civilian target, for no other reason than greed (archeology dig), thats never even mentioned, THAT is a goddamn hypocrisy...
    and putting all blame on sylva/garrosh its stupid, i know, BUT, at least garrosh as leader was put on trial for it (well sylva would be to if she didnt escape i believe), who was the last alliance leader ever even accused of anything? lets say i admit purge wasnt genocide, but it SURELY wsnt allright, how come Jaina and i think it was Vereesa who was leading troops were never even mentioned as doing anything bad?
    people always say how horrible was sylva wanted to mind control Derek, or any other forsaken for that matter, yet somehow ignore the ONLY leader we ever seen ingame to mind control his own was Anduin in pandaria, who is somehow saint to most people, whats that if not hypocrisy?
    Last edited by Lolites; 2019-12-13 at 01:08 PM.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The faction war in general, especially this one can best be embodied by the two leaders, Sylvanas and Anduin.

    The Horde had a perfect setup for a dramatic redemption arc now that we have seen just how low races of teh Horde, especially orcs are willing to go for what they percieve as the greater good.
    The Alliance similarly has the perfect setup for a story revolving around the moral dilemma of how many chances you give someone when you know that they can be better. Do you take them at face value as the psychotic murderers they seem to be, or do you try to look past that and salvage teh good from it.

    But of course, the leaders were Sylvanas and Anduin.

    The Horde having Sylvanas as a leader meant that all moral complexity and Saurfang guilt got thrown to the wayside because Sylvans betrayed teh Horde and the orcs Dundu nuffin.
    The Alliance having Anduin as a leader meant they could not truly explore the harsh vengeance angle that the entire Alliance should be onboard with given how many times the Horde has attacked them unprovoke,d kill thousands, offed a corrupt leader then walked away scot-free.


    At least the faction waris hopefully over now, Blizzard clearly has no intention of making that story with any levels of depth.
    Hope they dont go this way anymore. Since no horde leader had any problem with the burning of almost an entire race. This is what ticked me off. Im 100% sure the nightborn would have left the horde and the bloodselves aswell because of the burning. The nightborn could just say that they made a mistake while for the bloodelves it would be a strategic desicion to join the alliance, after all, you dont want to be alone in the eastern kingdoms. Its just stunningly how blizzard would overlook the consequences of a certain action. The horde vs alliance should always be on the background and never an expansion itself.

    In Shadowlands however I hope blizzard will show the splintering of the alliance, afterall, the alliance consists of many people and they arent as naive and misguided as Anduin.

    Also, Shadowland will be the first expansion that i wont buy. I think id rather watch the lore videos of bellular or nobble. Blizzard just really went bad in bfa.

  3. #163
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    from UN definition genocide is: "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group", sunreavers are ethnic group, you might argue it wasnt genocide (i think it was but ok) but however you twist it it was ethnic purge, massacre at best...

    "curing deafness is “genocide of deaf culture and sign language”" - im pretty sure sterilizing (a.k.a. making them unable to procreate) deaf people wouldnt cure them... and neither it cures undead, so again, twist it how you want, definition disagrees with you on this one completely...

    as for Jaina, she was persuaded to stop, yes she changed her mind but it wasnt on her own, so at minimum she wanted to commit genocide, before SOMEONE ELSE (and not alliance members) changed her mind

    - - - Updated - - -



    why is that? you think i shouldnt bring definition from UN (geneva convention) into game i assume? well, but then burning teldrasssil WASNT genocide, as there is no law in azeroth stating what genocide is

    so we can either use real world definitions (we already use real world morality anyway) or there NEVER was any genocide in azeroth...
    i prefer to use real world definition, rather than normal forum attitude "horde killing alliance is genocide, alliance killing horde is justified action" which is stupid hypocrisy...
    1. If you think that only alliance houses biased posters then you have no idea what the word "hypocrisy" even means. Both factions have people who are biased beyond belief.

    2. Bringing real world laws is not the same as using a word in a language. When the convention can start including trees that heal people and birds that shoot lazers then youd have a leg to stand on, until then you just look dumb bringing that into a game. And if your argument is trying to pillar itself on "genocide cant be used! its a real world term!" then I guess we cant use english in the game at all, cuz you know thats a real world language.

    3. If you really want to complain perhaps you should turn about and aim your statements at blizzard about how the horde is set on a villainous cycle cuz of its leader instead of weeping that the alliance is bad too.
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  4. #164
    What's the source for the Sunreavers being an ethnic group? That sounds rather absurd, to me they just seem like a pro-Kirin Tor political party.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2019-12-13 at 01:32 PM.
    How could I ever have loved someone so weak? Let us hope Arator did not inherit your cowardice.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    1. If you think that only alliance houses biased posters then you have no idea what the word "hypocrisy" even means. Both factions have people who are biased beyond belief.

    2. Bringing real world laws is not the same as using a word in a language. When the convention can start including trees that heal people and birds that shoot lazers then youd have a leg to stand on, until then you just look dumb bringing that into a game. And if your argument is trying to pillar itself on "genocide cant be used! its a real world term!" then I guess we cant use english in the game at all, cuz you know thats a real world language.

    3. If you really want to complain perhaps you should turn about and aim your statements at blizzard about how the horde is set on a villainous cycle cuz of its leader instead of weeping that the alliance is bad too.
    1. never said its alliance only, but seems that its more prominent fo allies (i actualy play both sides so i meet a lot of ppl from both sides)
    2. no, term genocide can surely be used, my whole problem is that people seem to put rather arbitrary division what is and what no longer is genocide, which seems to be based on nothing but bias toward one faction, sure real world definition is not perfectly applied to azeroth, but its way better than someones subjective opinion...
    3. blizzard shitty writing aside, my issue is when someone claims that bombing military target by horde is atrocity but wiping civilians by alliance is perfectly fine and justifiable

  6. #166
    Herald of the Titans Alex86el's Avatar
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    she is boring. waaaay too powerful.
    humiliating other respectable and interesting characters without a scratch on her.

    on one hand the writers try to pass her off as this cunning scheming "eventually our saviour" type.
    while on the other, she acts like a super selfish villain with the temper of a spoiled brat.

    she was interesting up to a point in WoW's history.. but now... she is just boring,
    and the slap in the face of the reader is that she will become our hero and saviour in the end.
    all because of her boot-licking, hormone-overflowing, teen fanbase. sigh.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebra the War Criminal View Post
    What's the source for the Sunreavers being an ethnic group? That sounds rather absurd, to me they just seem like a pro-Kirin Tor political party.
    then open a dictionary or what and read what ethnic group is

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    then open a dictionary or what and read what ethnic group is
    1) First of all, mind your manners, because in internet debates it's usually courteous to provide a source when people ask you for one, since if you claim something then the burden of proof falls on you.

    2) That is not even a source. Tell me where the Sunreavers are described as anything more than a political faction. "Go read what an ethnic group is and connect the dots" is not a source.
    How could I ever have loved someone so weak? Let us hope Arator did not inherit your cowardice.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebra the War Criminal View Post
    1) First of all, mind your manners, because in internet debates it's usually courteous to provide a source when people ask you for one, since if you claim something then the burden of proof falls on you.

    2) That is not even a source. Tell me where the Sunreavers are described as anything more than a political faction. "Go read what an ethnic group is and connect the dots" is not a source.
    YOU claim they are not ethnic group, so... where are they described as political party?

    but ill oblige your request:
    "An ethnic group or ethnicity is a category of people who identify with each other, usually on the basis of a presumed common genealogy or ancestry or on similarities such as common language or dialect, history, society, culture or nation"
    so they check all those points as far as i know, nation is probably a bit stretch, they are mor of a part of belf nation, basicaly they are belf minority living in different "country"
    from gamepedia "The Sunreavers are a faction of blood elves who represented the Horde in Dalaran." and "A faction is a group of allies, either racial or ideological.",
    so i technicaly id say they are both, ethnic and political group

    btw, im not sure what difference it makes if they are ethnic/religious/political group, doesnt really change anything...

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    YOU claim they are not ethnic group, so... where are they described as political party?

    but ill oblige your request:
    "An ethnic group or ethnicity is a category of people who identify with each other, usually on the basis of a presumed common genealogy or ancestry or on similarities such as common language or dialect, history, society, culture or nation"
    so they check all those points as far as i know, nation is probably a bit stretch, they are mor of a part of belf nation, basicaly they are belf minority living in different "country"
    from gamepedia "The Sunreavers are a faction of blood elves who represented the Horde in Dalaran." and "A faction is a group of allies, either racial or ideological.",
    so i technicaly id say they are both, ethnic and political group

    btw, im not sure what difference it makes if they are ethnic/religious/political group, doesnt really change anything...
    I didn't claim they were not an ethnic group, I asked you where it was said they were because THE IMPRESSION I GOT is that they were more of a political party.

    That definition is so vague and generic that it's almost embarassing. Following that logic the Defias Brotherhood or the Uncrowned are also an ethnic group.

    And yes, it changes a lot, because the entire basis of your argument that Jaina committed genocide at the Purge of Dalaran lies on the Sunreavers supposedly being an ethnicity.
    How could I ever have loved someone so weak? Let us hope Arator did not inherit your cowardice.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebra the War Criminal View Post
    I didn't claim they were not an ethnic group, I asked you where it was said they were because THE IMPRESSION I GOT is that they were more of a political party.

    That definition is so vague and generic that it's almost embarassing. Following that logic the Defias Brotherhood or the Uncrowned are also an ethnic group.

    And yes, it changes a lot, because the entire basis of your argument that Jaina committed genocide at the Purge of Dalaran lies on the Sunreavers supposedly being an ethnicity.
    I remember that they first complained that it was just one Sunreaver that was a Garrosh spy the first time with Theramore, then it was two Sunreavers with the Divine Bell, then what do you know there were multiple Sunreavers according to the Save Baine Questline not to mention Aethas admitting betraying the Kirin Tor when he came back begging on his knees to be reinstated back. That logic breaks balls literally. How dare Jaina arrest the Sunreavers for giving a WMD to a crazy lunatic. How dare she use force to the ones that draw swords.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebra the War Criminal View Post
    I didn't claim they were not an ethnic group, I asked you where it was said they were because THE IMPRESSION I GOT is that they were more of a political party.

    That definition is so vague and generic that it's almost embarassing. Following that logic the Defias Brotherhood or the Uncrowned are also an ethnic group.

    And yes, it changes a lot, because the entire basis of your argument that Jaina committed genocide at the Purge of Dalaran lies on the Sunreavers supposedly being an ethnicity.
    yeah, uncrowned share all that, except genalogy or ancestry, they are not even single race, so no common language, history, society (they dont live together they only have common base of operation) culture or nation (as said before they are not even all the same race)
    soo ... what do uncrowned share? they are rogues working together, thats all...
    defias brotherhood too, multiracial, multicultural, they as much as uncrowned are organisation, and dont really share much other than being criminals...
    if you dont see that blindingly obvious difference im afrraid i cant help you

    btw genocide is: "genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group" and they are the same race (and probably religion) so even if they wouldnt be ethnic group, it changes nothing...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth-Piekus View Post
    I remember that they first complained that it was just one Sunreaver that was a Garrosh spy the first time with Theramore, then it was two Sunreavers with the Divine Bell, then what do you know there were multiple Sunreavers according to the Save Baine Questline not to mention Aethas admitting betraying the Kirin Tor when he came back begging on his knees to be reinstated back. That logic breaks balls literally. How dare Jaina arrest the Sunreavers for giving a WMD to a crazy lunatic. How dare she use force to the ones that draw swords.
    and those responsible and perhaps even aetheas deserved punishment, but what did those vendors do other than protecting their own lives agains someone holding no authority over them (SI7 and silver covenant soldiers)?
    if Jaina arrested or even killed guilty nobody would give a ffuck, attacking innocent IS problem, if you dont see it you should get checked if you arent a sociopath or psychopath...
    "How dare she use force to the ones that draw swords" yeah, she and her soldiers killed people who after being attacked DEFEND themselves, why would they do that rather than lay on ground and die, i wonder...
    Last edited by Lolites; 2019-12-13 at 02:55 PM.

  13. #173
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    1. never said its alliance only, but seems that its more prominent fo allies (i actualy play both sides so i meet a lot of ppl from both sides)
    2. no, term genocide can surely be used, my whole problem is that people seem to put rather arbitrary division what is and what no longer is genocide, which seems to be based on nothing but bias toward one faction, sure real world definition is not perfectly applied to azeroth, but its way better than someones subjective opinion...
    3. blizzard shitty writing aside, my issue is when someone claims that bombing military target by horde is atrocity but wiping civilians by alliance is perfectly fine and justifiable
    the whining is from both sides but thankfully it is due to a vocal minority (you will notice that it is the same people making sameish threads). You say its prominent for allies. Need I remind you that the earliest speculation was that Teldrassil was an inside job by the night elves themselves. Or how people keep weeping about taurajo but completely forgetting stonetalon, southshore, astrannar. People on forums will always whine, basing your objectives from how much or how less they whine will only make you like them. Hell ive even read posts on this forum about people crying that the orcs were put in internment camps after their blaze through the eastern kingdoms. Like wth lol, so what else should the alliance have done? hung them? these guys went through the whole continent, burnt stormwind down, waged war on the other human kingdom after they had blown up their own planet.

    The game story is all that matters. If blizzard sets it as the horde warchief is a war mongering lunatic then no amount of essay writing here will change that. It might look like alliance complaining but honestly its because the story is skewed so bad towards making the horde look like villans or idiots that automatically one wants to point at something else, ANYTHING else to make themselves not look so bad. We are now about to reach a FOURTH expansion that has had a horde leader cause shit. That is nearly 50% of the game story where a faction leader has caused shit. Even if it was split 25% alliance being evil and 25% horde being evil, with 50% some titan or world ending menace it would be perfectly fine. But unfortunately the only way they have chosen to give the horde a story is by making them look like "me want your wood, you no give wood? thats offensive, me kill you for offense and take wood".

    If you take a look at the alliance most people COMPLETELY forget
    1. Archbishop Benedictus was the Twlight Father! This guy was a student of Faol and the center point of much of Stormwind religion.
    2. The alliance general who attacked Taurajo was sabotaged and setup of assassination by human intelligence because he was honorable to the other faction
    3. Alliance fired upon horde ships in Stormhiem (And hilariously got absolutely decimated)
    4. The orcs take alot of blame for the crap they stirred up in the past, yet all the shit the highborne did seems to swept under the rug.

    The problem is magnitude.
    Jaina COULD have flooded org. Sylvanas DID burn teldrassil.
    Taurajo was attacked, civilians allowed to escape but got killed by wildlife. Theramore was bombed, the civilians escaped and got taken by orcs to torture.
    Genn did attack Sylvanas, but have you seen their history? Woman invaded his kingdom, killed his only son AND plagued his lands. What the hell would you do? The orcs justify their fight by saying the night elves wont give them wood, but i guess Genn isnt allowed revenge because he was ousted from his kindgom, his family killed and people misplaced?

    The skewed magnitude has left no room for pointing fingers at the other faction. Because at the end of it all Sylvanas lead the horde on making it think it was fighting for survival while it was just so she could feed souls to a hungering maw and gain power. So at best the horde is evil and self hating (because that maw doesnt differentiate based on alliance or horde death) or worse they so stupid this is the second time they were lead on by a leader into oblivion. Take your pick.
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  14. #174
    I couldn't have said it better but Minikin you shouldn't have said that. Now the vocal minority will hunt you down. It wont be long.

  15. #175
    I am Murloc! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    So, Anduin, the person who got massive amounts of people killed and has barely done anything first hand is a Mary Sue? Do you even know what a Mary Sue is? You all need to stop whining and making shit up because you dislike a character just being good and true without any outside morally grey shit.
    Tell me with a straight face that this doesn't fit the Golden Boi like a glove.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth-Piekus View Post
    I couldn't have said it better but Minikin you shouldn't have said that. Now the vocal minority will hunt you down. It wont be long.
    Source about it being a minority pls - and about you being in a majority ofc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danuser
    we created a story structure for Sylvanas that, on the surface, echoed many broad strokes of the road Garrosh took (...). These parallels were intentional. But it's within the nuance that we sought to show the story grow and change.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    BFA was about as nuanced as a golf club to the testicles/ovaries.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    the whining is from both sides but thankfully it is due to a vocal minority (you will notice that it is the same people making sameish threads). You say its prominent for allies. Need I remind you that the earliest speculation was that Teldrassil was an inside job by the night elves themselves. Or how people keep weeping about taurajo but completely forgetting stonetalon, southshore, astrannar. People on forums will always whine, basing your objectives from how much or how less they whine will only make you like them. Hell ive even read posts on this forum about people crying that the orcs were put in internment camps after their blaze through the eastern kingdoms. Like wth lol, so what else should the alliance have done? hung them? these guys went through the whole continent, burnt stormwind down, waged war on the other human kingdom after they had blown up their own planet.

    The game story is all that matters. If blizzard sets it as the horde warchief is a war mongering lunatic then no amount of essay writing here will change that. It might look like alliance complaining but honestly its because the story is skewed so bad towards making the horde look like villans or idiots that automatically one wants to point at something else, ANYTHING else to make themselves not look so bad. We are now about to reach a FOURTH expansion that has had a horde leader cause shit. That is nearly 50% of the game story where a faction leader has caused shit. Even if it was split 25% alliance being evil and 25% horde being evil, with 50% some titan or world ending menace it would be perfectly fine. But unfortunately the only way they have chosen to give the horde a story is by making them look like "me want your wood, you no give wood? thats offensive, me kill you for offense and take wood".

    If you take a look at the alliance most people COMPLETELY forget
    1. Archbishop Benedictus was the Twlight Father! This guy was a student of Faol and the center point of much of Stormwind religion.
    2. The alliance general who attacked Taurajo was sabotaged and setup of assassination by human intelligence because he was honorable to the other faction
    3. Alliance fired upon horde ships in Stormhiem (And hilariously got absolutely decimated)
    4. The orcs take alot of blame for the crap they stirred up in the past, yet all the shit the highborne did seems to swept under the rug.

    The problem is magnitude.
    Jaina COULD have flooded org. Sylvanas DID burn teldrassil.
    Taurajo was attacked, civilians allowed to escape but got killed by wildlife. Theramore was bombed, the civilians escaped and got taken by orcs to torture.
    Genn did attack Sylvanas, but have you seen their history? Woman invaded his kingdom, killed his only son AND plagued his lands. What the hell would you do? The orcs justify their fight by saying the night elves wont give them wood, but i guess Genn isnt allowed revenge because he was ousted from his kindgom, his family killed and people misplaced?

    The skewed magnitude has left no room for pointing fingers at the other faction. Because at the end of it all Sylvanas lead the horde on making it think it was fighting for survival while it was just so she could feed souls to a hungering maw and gain power. So at best the horde is evil and self hating (because that maw doesnt differentiate based on alliance or horde death) or worse they so stupid this is the second time they were lead on by a leader into oblivion. Take your pick.
    fair points, and well reasoned arguments, i agree mostly
    and i never had issues with people admiting there was shit happening on both sides, i only hate passionately people who kinda ignore half of shit that happened (be it on any side)

    as for the horde being manipulated by leader into shitty moves, that too is not horde only, Garithos, Arthas, Kelthuzad, Jaina, Medivh, all basicaly alliance leaders (or at least important figures) leading to incredible death count... technicaly even Varian (war that ended with Garrosh trial was declared by him)...

    the more i think about it, the general population of azeroth, both horde and alliance seems to be either incredibly stupid or willing to commit horrible crimes just bcs of racial hatred coming mostly from the past or both

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    yeah, uncrowned share all that, except genalogy or ancestry, they are not even single race, so no common language, history, society (they dont live together they only have common base of operation) culture or nation (as said before they are not even all the same race)
    soo ... what do uncrowned share? they are rogues working together, thats all...
    defias brotherhood too, multiracial, multicultural, they as much as uncrowned are organisation, and dont really share much other than being criminals...
    if you dont see that blindingly obvious difference im afrraid i cant help you

    btw genocide is: "genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group" and they are the same race (and probably religion) so even if they wouldnt be ethnic group, it changes nothing...

    - - - Updated - - -



    and those responsible and perhaps even aetheas deserved punishment, but what did those vendors do other than protecting their own lives agains someone holding no authority over them (SI7 and silver covenant soldiers)?
    if Jaina arrested or even killed guilty nobody would give a ffuck, attacking innocent IS problem, if you dont see it you should get checked if you arent a sociopath or psychopath...
    "How dare she use force to the ones that draw swords" yeah, she and her soldiers killed people who after being attacked DEFEND themselves, why would they do that rather than lay on ground and die, i wonder...
    It's not said anywhere in that definition you linked that they need to have all of the above. They share a history, according to that generic and vague definition that's enough to form an ethnic group.

    And yes, it changes a lot, because the Sunreavers are most certainly not a national, racial, or religious group.
    How could I ever have loved someone so weak? Let us hope Arator did not inherit your cowardice.

  18. #178
    I am Murloc! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    the more i think about it, the general population of azeroth, both horde and alliance seems to be either incredibly stupid or willing to commit horrible crimes just bcs of racial hatred coming mostly from the past or both
    Well, that has been Warcraft's leitmotiv since the very beginning. The only problem is when the narrative starts whitewashing one of the sides, turning the thing into a bland, utterly boring Good-vs-Evil clone #603298672075 - something that WC3 had carefully avoided, and I think it greatly contributed to WoW's solid beginnings.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danuser
    we created a story structure for Sylvanas that, on the surface, echoed many broad strokes of the road Garrosh took (...). These parallels were intentional. But it's within the nuance that we sought to show the story grow and change.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    BFA was about as nuanced as a golf club to the testicles/ovaries.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Tell me with a straight face that this doesn't fit the Golden Boi like a glove.



    Source about it being a minority pls - and about you being in a majority ofc.
    Polls from every single forum the moment the Horde changed from Thralls to an abomination with the crushing majority being against playing the villain.

  20. #180
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebra the War Criminal View Post
    It's not said anywhere in that definition you linked that they need to have all of the above. They share a history, according to that generic and vague definition that's enough to form an ethnic group.

    And yes, it changes a lot, because the Sunreavers are most certainly not a national, racial, or religious group.
    The Sunreavers and the Silver Covenant are both purely political groups, created along political ideologies (Horde vs. Alliance) in the context of Dalaran's social hierarchy.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

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